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Making the Case for Chaff (or How I Learned to Loved the Hound)


daedalus81

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We're seeing an increasing number of concerns coming from dealing with Beastclaw and other units with highly concentrated strength, so I figured now was a good time to talk about chaff and the need for it in AoS.

Placing a screen in front of your units can give them the time they need to get into position and also avoid the ill effect of a unit that gets bonuses on the charge. Your screen takes the charge and you remove casualties in a way that lets your unit in the read pass right up the middle.  Sure - they can't pile in, but who cares?!

Another great task is to run the fastest unit you have in front of something you wish to slow down - (make sure to use inspiring presence first!).  Units do not overrun, march, and mostly can't run if they have to charge.  A unit of chaos warhounds can move 16" in one turn!  A stone horn can theoretically move 22.5" in a turn.  Putting warhounds directly opposite one lets me reduce it's movement to 8" - even if he kills the warhounds to a model.

And if you don't need a screen then use them to threaten artillery.  Chaff is your friend.

 

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Definitely agree. Chaff is massively underused I think because it's not as point and click as it was in 8th. 

Chaff, especially if highly manoeuvrable, is great for tying up units. Even better is if they can survive a round of combat therefore making the enemy unit miss a move and charge phase. 

Makin them survive can also be done by a clever charge with your chaff connecting a small amount of models to minimise their pile in, or to charge in the rear to draw the unit further out of position when they do pile in. 

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Don't forget the rampaging destroyers (looks like the Destruction traits are way better than the Beastclaw ones), or that the Beastclaw filth have plenty of shooting attacks too. If the Beastclaw take the first turn (with their formations and low model count this is likely), then you'll want a big line of chaff (30/20 Clanrats, Bloodreavers) on your 12 inch line and probably the rest of your stuff as far back as possible. Otherwise they may shoot holes in the chaff and let the Stonehorn through. One Thundertusk can take out 6 models by itself plus a Blood Vulture.

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So much this!  I play Seraphon and I love my skinks!  Their ability to retreat when activated in combat is amazing and lets them really act like a skirmishing unit.  

A block of 30 skinks makes for an enormous speed bump for any enemy unit.  Each turn I move them up, shoot, and charge.  The enemy can attack the skinks to try to remove them, even though skinks are not an actual threat to anything.  If they do this, then the skinks will take a beating, however leadership 10 really helps mitigate battleshock and there's always Inspiring Presence of course.  

They could also choose to activate another unit.  If they do this, I activate and then retreat the skinks to just outside of 3" from the enemy unit I want to slow down.  With a big enough skink unit this really limits many units to only a few inches of forward movement.

PS: As a side note this doesn't work against Slaanesh as they are just too fast.  Seekers in particular will just flow right around any blocking unit since they have a threat range of something like 40" a turn.  I hate Seekers!

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2 hours ago, Kamose said:

So much this!  I play Seraphon and I love my skinks!  Their ability to retreat when activated in combat is amazing and lets them really act like a skirmishing unit.  

Huh - I didn't realize they had this.  Everyone is saurus all the time right now.

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I recently played against a guy who ran 10 warhounds which he deployed around skarbrand and 2 blood thirsters, I had 10 retributors that couldn't teleport effectively, defo worth 80 points in matched play.  Also I summoned 10 plaguebearers in front of 10 blight kings, my opponent charged the plaguebearers wiped them out but then my blight kings piled in and attacked haven taken no damage in return; there is defiantly a reason to take chaff.

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1 hour ago, Carnelian said:

What flack would people recommend for a stormcast grand alliance order army?

Good question and a tough one.  Order doesn't really have fast, cheap units with multiple bodies.  Stormcast certainly less so.  Skinks are a good choice on the shield wall end of it as are probably some of the Freeguild melee units...maybe even archers for the heck of it.  Flagellants fit that and have thorn damage as well as being low points.

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As a Death player my chaff can actually kill people in great numbers. Death primarily being somewhat a horde army I get great use out of my skeletons and zombies. 

If I was using a mixed stormcast army I would go for Flagellants it just fits the theme more plus fluff wise it's the devoted that "cleans" everything up after the stormcast capture a realm gate or objective. 

We all know how you cleanse chaos right? ;p

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As a death play! Playing a zombie horde. I summon Dire wolves and deploy them long wise to make a great wall. WIth corpse cart and mystic shield. They are 120 points for 20 wounds with a 3+ save.  Which is pretty darn good for an annoying wall. I also think that wall can stretch ummm... 30"s?? lots good there for 120 points.

 

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9 hours ago, shinros said:

As a Death player my chaff can actually kill people in great numbers. Death primarily being somewhat a horde army I get great use out of my skeletons and zombies. 

If I was using a mixed stormcast army I would go for Flagellants it just fits the theme more plus fluff wise it's the devoted that "cleans" everything up after the stormcast capture a realm gate or objective. 

We all know how you cleanse chaos right? ;p

I would have thought that zombies and skeletons would be too slow to be very useful for this purpose?

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On 8/23/2016 at 9:25 AM, Carnelian said:

I would have thought that zombies and skeletons would be too slow to be very useful for this purpose?

Well they are slow but it's the case of that skeleton warriors and zombies are deadly in large numbers. People ask me how do I deal with gun lines and that's my answer. The person has to choose to shoot my elites/vampires or the undead horde approaching your lines. If they choose the elites/vampires they are going to have to deal with a full strength horde grinding them down. 

If they decide to choose the horde? Well I don't really care if they die considering how tough they are and I will simply flank/gain objectives with the free units. Plus the vampire lord on abyssal terror can double the movement of any Death unit. 

If I am dealing with a melee army? Well the horde will grind them down slowly while they have to work through the tar pit with flanking varghiest's/bats that can possibly move 24 inches a turn. :3

I love death it's strange that I am attracted to horde armies to much currently working on a devoted of sigmar army. :)

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Chaff denying melee range is why the Thundertusk is so powerful - (almost) guaranteed 6 mortal wounds as soon as you get within 18" can snipe most heroes outright, and 2 shots can down most monsters.
Stonehorn is great if you can get it in combat but the Thundertusk is a massive threat that can't be so easily denied by a line of skinks or zombies.

 

Age of Sigmar almost becomes a totally different game when you and your opponents realize the power of screening properly.

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Depleted non-chaff units can be used as chaff too if you just retreat them! :)

Say you have only a few Stormcast left in a combat at the start of your turn, and they've done their bit but are now about to get mashed in a fight with something nasty. Just back off 3 inches, spread out and stay there. They don't die in your turn, and the enemy only gets to advance 3" when they charge in again to finish them on their turn. That's a lot better than losing them in your turn and the enemy getting a full move and charge off in theirs.

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I've not played enough to grasp how to use chaff, but I am buying the concept! I think that it would be the reason to go for a generic Allegiance in some cases. I've been working slowly on a Ironjawz army which will get some allied help from Grots on Wolves. I think they could make great chaff. I am thinking of running 2x 5 and a Grot Shamen on a Wolf as well. Their shooting isn't epic, but it would be good to hassle units while they get in the way of stuff, and help me set up charges. 

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Been thinking more about this. I'd like to breakdown some of the uses of chaff units:

- speed bump: put the unit in the way of something which you don't want charging you. That unit can either charge your chaff or waste time running around it.

- pinning: if you have a powerful enemy unit in combat and you want the keep it there, toss a chaff unit into the same combat to keep them there even if your opponent's unit wins the combat. Of course if that unit is super powerful, it could murder both your units!

- hassle: A fast chaff unit with missile weapons can simply hang back and pepper a unit as they maneuver around.

- disorder: a Chaff unit charging from a weird angle could compel an enemy unit to pile in i. A direction they don't want to go. This could pull them into combat with another unit or pull them the opposite direction they would like to move.

- robbery: fast chaff can hover near an objective waiting way off by the edge of the board to pounce to capture or contest at the end of the game. Forcing your opponent to go off in the weeds to deal with them.

What else can you guys think of? I feel like retreats have some potential, but I've not worked that out yet. Chaff units provide some cool opportunities, but are risky if a score comes down to kills.

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On 19/08/2016 at 6:01 PM, daedalus81 said:

 

Placing a screen in front of your units can give them the time they need to get into position and also avoid the ill effect of a unit that gets bonuses on the charge. Your screen takes the charge and you remove casualties in a way that lets your unit in the read pass right up the middle.  Sure - they can't pile in, but who cares?!


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Just on this first post.....can you remove casualties such that you break unit coherency? Haven't got all the gubbins to hand as I write this and can't remember the official GW FAQ if there is one?

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12 minutes ago, Scottyjock said:

Just on this first post.....can you remove casualties such that you break unit coherency? Haven't got all the gubbins to hand as I write this and can't remember the official GW FAQ if there is one?

iirc, you can remove models however you want, but any movements afterward have to be used to bring the unit back into coherency.

 

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1 minute ago, daedalus81 said:

Right, so you can't pile-in or retreat if you don't have enough move to do so.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that.  What happens then?

Can you use the move that would have come from pile in or a retreat to put them back into coherency, or are you stuck, until you are out of combat, letting the opponent make all of the pile ins, and just waiting until they do that to select your unit to attack?

I mean, conceivably things could role out in such a way that that unit couldn't attack again, and just gets destroyed...  Of course, as chaff that is part of it's job, right?

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