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Ben

Gristlegore still got it? Just won 100 player event in Belgium

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34 minutes ago, Boobashamaka said:

Here you go, congrats for the victory @ChippyRick !!! ;)

Good ole ossiarch bonereapers, my favorite destruction army. 

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1 hour ago, hughwyeth said:

Wonder how much longer corpse cart will be legal. It doesn't fall into any allegiance does it? Still just "Death"/"Deadwalkers". Imagine GW will end matched play support for it in GH20....

It's part of LoN book, there is just as much reason to remove it as to remove Deadlords or Deathrattle - none
And those subfactions make balancing Allies within Death easier

Edited by XReN
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34 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

A bad army will never be able to place in an environment where everyone is taking the most powerful lists.  Even an ok army will almost never be able to place in that army.  The greatest players in the world also usually always take the strongest lists they can, or if not THE strongest, A strong list (viable) because this is a game of probabilities and if you aren't taking a high probability list you aren't placing.  As such that is how one can tell what is viable or not.  

Even poor players can do well with strong armies, particularly if they are playing other poor or middling players because the math in this game is very powerful and has a high impact.  I've seen tournament placing strong players take middle of the road armies and get beaten by weak players playing very strong armies, pretty much every time that experiment happens down at the store.  What you rarely see are big tournament results showing weak armies placing high overall, even with the best players in the world.  

Thats sadly the generic „mathhammer is everything“ post that appears when arguing against the „tier-list above all“-mentality. 

Meta is not just which army has the best probabilities (thats an important thing as well of course), but also a comparison of one armies tools against tools of the other armies. 

For example Shooting is strong as long as people play armies that are weak to shooting (low model count, bad protection of Heroes), but once people play armies that have multiple ways of stacking -to hit the shooting armies will have a problem. 

How do you want to shift a blob of Plaguebearers that is -4 to hit with shooting from an objective?

Also the hyperbole in this hobby is absurd most of the time. 

The scale goes from „completely broken op“ to „unplayable, this faction is 100% lose“ when the extreme between the best possible list* and the worst possible list* is maybe 60/40. 

Back to topic: 

I‘m not surprised that a very alphastrike oriented army like FEC can still win a tournament. 

I would also not be surprised if SCE or any other army thats labeled „bottom tier“ by many players will win a major tournament.

In the end its 30% anticipating the weaknesses of other armies, trying to counterbuild them, 30% having a good match up in the tourney, 20% playing your cards right and ultimately 20% pure dice luck**. 

Just my opinion. 

*If both players max out their list mathematically of course. 

**Thats why I can‘t take „competitive play“ completely serious. A game can be decided by good/bad rolls on either players side.

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I play at the top levels of competitive play weekly so I see this happening weekly.  Of course the game can have good and bad rolls on either side.  But if your army is a lot weaker than mine by the math, you are going to need an awful lot of good rolls and depend on me having a lot of bad rolls for you to win the game.  

I can play my triple keeper of secrets against any of the gits lists I have seen over the past six months and I can tell you that they need to roll 10x better than me on average AND play a nearly flawless game with no mistakes for them to even have a good game against me, or I need to do some serious blunders AND roll fairly bad.

20% pure dice luck would only be true if both armies were comparatively in the same power level as each other.  This game is at least 50 - 60% listbuilding properly.  If you are maxing  your list out then the play your cards right and pure dice luck are much less of an impact.  If you are fielding a weaker army then those variables become a lot higher and you need to depend on them a lot more.

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19 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Thats why I can‘t take „competitive play“ completely serious. A game can be decided by good/bad rolls on either players side.

I think it's worth bearing in mind that playing competitively requires a different mindset to playing more casual games.  Lists will be created that reduce the impact that dice rolls have so that the army performs more predictably.  From my own experience there are more ways to reduce randomness than increase it for your opponent.

Don't get me wrong, there will always be an element of luck involved, but with minimising that for the bulk of the army you can focus on tactics so that when the dice don't go your way, it isn't going to result in a loss.

19 hours ago, Phasteon said:

In the end its 30% anticipating the weaknesses of other armies, trying to counterbuild them, 30% having a good match up in the tourney, 20% playing your cards right and ultimately 20% pure dice luck**. 

I think you're on the right lines, but I think the percentages vary depending event you're playing.  In the most simplistic terms, GT events generally have more predictability in the armies you'll face, but they'll be generally fielded by players with quite a bit of experience playing the army.  Conversely Throne of Skull/Soft Score events will have a much more random range of armies, but normally against players with less experience than a GT.  Just those two items will shift your percentages and that's without factoring in the amount of dice luck you can mitigate with your list.

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On 2/10/2020 at 8:11 AM, Karragon said:

Your general fights at the start of the combat phase, twice if you feeding frenzy. Then you go to normal picking order and pick another GKoTG and fight twice with it with feeding frenzy. Essentially 4 activations on your turn before your opponent gets to pick, if they've got anything left in combat at that point

I thought feeding frenzy was once per player turn? Have I been playing it wrong and its actually once per unit per player turn? 

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On 2/10/2020 at 2:37 PM, Dead Scribe said:

I play at the top levels of competitive play weekly so I see this happening weekly.  Of course the game can have good and bad rolls on either side.  But if your army is a lot weaker than mine by the math, you are going to need an awful lot of good rolls and depend on me having a lot of bad rolls for you to win the game.  

I can play my triple keeper of secrets against any of the gits lists I have seen over the past six months and I can tell you that they need to roll 10x better than me on average AND play a nearly flawless game with no mistakes for them to even have a good game against me, or I need to do some serious blunders AND roll fairly bad.

I don’t know.

Gitz seem to be a pretty good counter towards the 3keepers list.

sure they won’t do much damage in total, but with their nets and a few good buffs, those units can be a minus 2-3 to the hit role in combat.

 at first it might not look that great but considering you’d have to slaughter your way through 220models with those debuff, I would think that those 3keepers will struggle a lot.

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2 hours ago, Tikhunt said:

I thought feeding frenzy was once per player turn? Have I been playing it wrong and its actually once per unit per player turn? 

Feeding Frenzy is as many times a turn as you like and can afford to pay the CP for it, with a limit of once per unit. If you're running the Feast Day delusion one of those Feeding Frenzies per turn is free.

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2 hours ago, Entombet said:

How nice, no KO in top 60.

I don't believe the new book was allowed in this event.

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3 hours ago, Karragon said:

Feeding Frenzy is as many times a turn as you like and can afford to pay the CP for it, with a limit of once per unit. If you're running the Feast Day delusion one of those Feeding Frenzies per turn is free.

Okay cheers, I misread it and have been doing it with only one unit per turn despite having command points for it. 

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Good spread, strong OBR showing when new Tzeentch  was not allowed

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Interesting...I thought Orruk Warclans was pretty strong, but the highest place is 23rd and the rest are near the bottom and I can only spot 3. Thought it was stronger and more popular. 

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On 2/10/2020 at 3:06 PM, Boobashamaka said:

Here you go, congrats for the victory @ChippyRick !!! ;)

received_545572372714809.png

received_179571680017125.png

How did Bonereapers take Best Destruction? 😄

 

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Honestly hammer and bolter was awsome. Saw this match live vs those fyreslayers. I did lose 0-3 against his fyreslayer list so its cool that u took the win and thereby won the tournament. It was a great experience! Even my warrior chamber stormcast with 1.0 models did come out 34. Flesh eaters on top is refeshing

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On 2/14/2020 at 5:35 PM, GriinWan said:

How did Bonereapers take Best Destruction? 😄

 

Because they destroyed the meta? :) 

Edited by michu
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On 2/9/2020 at 5:56 PM, Ben said:

@ChippyRick just took out the Hammer and Bolter event in Belgium.  100 players.  

Gristlegore Flesh Eater Courts. 

 

 

gristlegore.jpg

Thanks Ben, and thanks to all who posted congrats in here. Was a great weekend, the event was superb and not just because of my result.

Army was great fun, as has been for the last few months i have been running it. It has dropped off the radar a little, but is still super strong with the speed and damage output alongside the ability to get around the table.

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On 2/13/2020 at 1:11 PM, Ravinsild said:

Interesting...I thought Orruk Warclans was pretty strong, but the highest place is 23rd and the rest are near the bottom and I can only spot 3. Thought it was stronger and more popular. 

Orruk Warclans is strong, you're looking at one GT. Everyone and their uncle though is playing OBR now.

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Very Interesting list. Exploiting ghoul patrol battalion for less drops, extra command, and double maw re-rolls and the extra artifact of the Brooch so these 3 CP you have first turn are coming back for more Feeding Frenzy, offsetting the loss of Feast Day which seems like the most popular way to play FEC right now.  The ability to summon either 6 horrors or 6 flayers is nice to be able to decide what is best, plus a Vargulf. I don't know if you would even use Ghoul Patrol as sending groups of 10 ghouls off to die does not seem beneficial unless you can claim an objective.

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17 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Very Interesting list. Exploiting ghoul patrol battalion for less drops, extra command, and double maw re-rolls and the extra artifact of the Brooch so these 3 CP you have first turn are coming back for more Feeding Frenzy, offsetting the loss of Feast Day which seems like the most popular way to play FEC right now.  The ability to summon either 6 horrors or 6 flayers is nice to be able to decide what is best, plus a Vargulf. I don't know if you would even use Ghoul Patrol as sending groups of 10 ghouls off to die does not seem beneficial unless you can claim an objective.

After the update, i've only seen lists with Ghoul Patrol, b.c its the best way to get extra CP now you can only buy 1, and with the extra artefact its great. The drops are not that big of a deal from what i've seen, 4-5 is average, you either are low drops (1-3 some would say 1-2 os low), mid drops (4-5), or high drops (6+).

What surprised me the most honestly is teh Cart, i have a couple friends that plays it and they don't think its worth it, they keep trying to run it b.c they have it and its a cool model, tho it never does much for them. He might be playing it better tho for sure. But still surprising for me :) 

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5 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

After the update, i've only seen lists with Ghoul Patrol, b.c its the best way to get extra CP now you can only buy 1, and with the extra artefact its great. The drops are not that big of a deal from what i've seen, 4-5 is average, you either are low drops (1-3 some would say 1-2 os low), mid drops (4-5), or high drops (6+).

What surprised me the most honestly is teh Cart, i have a couple friends that plays it and they don't think its worth it, they keep trying to run it b.c they have it and its a cool model, tho it never does much for them. He might be playing it better tho for sure. But still surprising for me :) 

With three fast, strong, self applying candidates for Feeding Frenzy, i would be very, VERY surprised if this list plans on using any CP for summoning.  Seems more like a nice little treat it gives itself if it finds it has extra CP from the brooch.

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