AoS 2 - Legion of the First Prince Discussion (Belakor)

[Gristlegut]

On 6/13/2021 at 11:10 AM, pnkdth said:

I was referring to controlling movement with anti-pile in moves. Badly phrased and I blame the heat. 

Yeah, you are probably right and I hate why. I get why LRL should be awesome with magic but it is just so disheartening to see people drop an entire aspect of the game because of the designer of LRL thought it was awesome to design an army based on undermining the experience and the game for the opponent. 

The second list also have the benefit of preventing teleports/redeploys better with more bodies.

Played second list against Teclis last night, Scorched Earth. Man it was ugly. He went first took out the exalted and flamers on turn one. drove his 5 man dawnriders into my left flank. which was on the side of Belly and the DP. Had to engage and brought them out in my turn. (I decided to go with  Khorne mark for DP). That 18" bubble on run/charge is impressive. No double turn for me. He took out my DP and Bilepiper via Teclis again. and he was whittling my PB down hard. He brought purple sun and Geminds. They are nasty.

I was able to get VLC and a unit of PB on his weak flank and started to burn objectives and winning on points but my defense was disappearing fast. I did Dark master on Teclis on turn 3 with the assumption of his double turn. I rolled a 2 in his hero phase, 😒. Teclis took out be'lakor, Game over. HIndsight, I waited too long for dark master but a double turn was coming on. 

Not having any real defense against his high casting rolls killed me. missed Kairos against this army, not a good match up.

FEC tonight. I am switching the CP for purple sun. That thing is nasty.

[Charleston]

Anyone noticed how nice the new Fireblade Spell works with a Verminlord Corruptor?

[Gristlegut]

Very interesting points reveal. I think we did pretty good here. Kairos went way up but Belly, VLC, PB, bilepiper, was very reasonable with some points going down. 

[Howdyhedberg]

I have a question. Does the ability "infernal realmwalkers" give belakor a 6+ ward save/FNP, or it's just for the units in the army?

[pnkdth]

16 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

I have a question. Does the ability "infernal realmwalkers" give belakor a 6+ ward save/FNP, or it's just for the units in the army?

All units in the army has the keyword 'legion of the first prince' which includes the big boi himself. In short, he gets the 6+ ward.

[Nuriel]

And Skaven Daemons got squatted with the new FAQ. Well, faq indeed.

[Charlo]

I think that makes sense, personally. It was probably never intended to have a weird big Skaven hanging out under the thrall of Be'lakor, especially to double dip on a particularly spicy artefact.

[Gristlegut]

1 hour ago, Charlo said:

I think that makes sense, personally. It was probably never intended to have a weird big Skaven hanging out under the thrall of Be'lakor, especially to double dip on a particularly spicy artefact.

Well, we lost an important unit in VLC. Is bloodthirster the new hammer? I am super bummed with this FAQ and new points changes. We lost VLC, K'daai, and Kairos point increase just made this a fluff army. A very $$ fluff army. 

[That Guy]

Am i missing something or are daemonettes just straight up the worst choice ever for the legion in 3rd? Except for having each type of lesser daemon unit near be’lakor for the legion ability is there any use for them? Ever since the hedonites tome, their hit generation ability and locus is just completely moved to allegiance abilities of the hedonites faction. On top of that daemonettes are now 140p, while horrors of tzeentch are 5p cheaper than they were and better than ever, not to mention that great faq buff to plaguebearers and just the mortal output of bloodletters, makes the daemonettes seem like some waste of points. Litterally all they offer is a small missile option, by being able to charge after a run. It makes me worry for the future god specific battletomes doing similar things to the other lesser daemons. Yikes.

Edited July 19, 2021 by That Guy

[Kasper]

On 7/2/2021 at 5:02 PM, Gristlegut said:

Well, we lost an important unit in VLC. Is bloodthirster the new hammer? I am super bummed with this FAQ and new points changes. We lost VLC, K'daai, and Kairos point increase just made this a fluff army. A very $$ fluff army. 

Im having fun with the Bloodthrister of Insensate Rage.

Give him the universal 5++ artefact, Finest Hour/Mystic Shield (pref both) and you have a monster sitting on 3+ effectively ignoring rend 1 with a 5++ afterwards. That is generally pretty durable, but you shouldnt haul him at the strongest the opponent has, hes meant to be grinding and hoping to enter boomtown. 

Charge him into combat and either pick a monster for +1 hit or use All-out attack for +1. Now he's sitting on 5 attacks, hitting on 3s with rerolling 1s due to having charged. Any 6s to wound explode for 4 MWs to any unit within 8" of his rather big base. This can easily hit ~5 units or more. This is in ADDITION to his normal damage, which is rend 2 and D6 damage on whatever he hits.  

I run with Kairos as well and his once-per-game dice makes a roll unmodified. This means you have the ability to flip one of the Bloodthirster's wound rolls to a 6, causing MW explosion if he gets into a good position.

It is a bit of a lottery ticket, but he has the possibility of dealing massive damage meanwhile tanking a fair bit. On 5 attacks, you are probably looking at 1 sixes to wound, and with the Kairos flip you will then do 8 MWs to potentially 5 units which is 40 MWs across the board.

If you have a single round where your 6s to wound spike, it can potentially end the game.

In AoS3 where monsters are pretty key to scoring VPs Im really liking this big boy, enables you to target some enemy monsters and kill them for an additional VP or even complete some battle tactics that are huge.  

 

The Ghur CA allows a monster to fight at its top bracket. You have Master's Command to let him fight upon death. There is Lifeswarm triggering 2D3 healing in the turn it is casted + D3 in the opponents turn. You can use Heroic Recovery (each hero phase) for another 2xD3 healing, which is likely to go off since you just have to roll below 10 on 2 dice.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Kasper

[Gristlegut]

2 hours ago, Kasper said:

Im having fun with the Bloodthrister of Insensate Rage.

Give him the universal 5++ artefact, Finest Hour/Mystic Shield (pref both) and you have a monster sitting on 3+ effectively ignoring rend 1 with a 5++ afterwards. That is generally pretty durable, but you shouldnt haul him at the strongest the opponent has, hes meant to be grinding and hoping to enter boomtown. 

Charge him into combat and either pick a monster for +1 hit or use All-out attack for +1. Now he's sitting on 5 attacks, hitting on 3s with rerolling 1s due to having charged. Any 6s to wound explode for 4 MWs to any unit within 8" of his rather big base. This can easily hit ~5 units or more. This is in ADDITION to his normal damage, which is rend 2 and D6 damage on whatever he hits.  

I run with Kairos as well and his once-per-game dice makes a roll unmodified. This means you have the ability to flip one of the Bloodthirster's wound rolls to a 6, causing MW explosion if he gets into a good position.

It is a bit of a lottery ticket, but he has the possibility of dealing massive damage meanwhile tanking a fair bit. On 5 attacks, you are probably looking at 1 sixes to wound, and with the Kairos flip you will then do 8 MWs to potentially 5 units which is 40 MWs across the board.

If you have a single round where your 6s to wound spike, it can potentially end the game.

In AoS3 where monsters are pretty key to scoring VPs Im really liking this big boy, enables you to target some enemy monsters and kill them for an additional VP or even complete some battle tactics that are huge.  

 

The Ghur CA allows a monster to fight at its top bracket. You have Master's Command to let him fight upon death. There is Lifeswarm triggering 2D3 healing in the turn it is casted + D3 in the opponents turn. You can use Heroic Recovery (each hero phase) for another 2xD3 healing, which is likely to go off since you just have to roll below 10 on 2 dice.

Excellent advice! As a matter of fact I ran BT IR at the Warpcharged tourney in VA with that list last Sunday. 
He was a bit swingy. I did use the kairos trick and took out a stonehorn  and damaged another. He needs to be in the middle of the fight. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Gristlegut

[That Guy]

Interesting. I’ll def. get a Kairos for this tactic, it will also up the magic dominance of the army. When it comes to the lessers, I feel the new plageubearers and horrors of tzeentch is where it’s at. Daemonettes are underwhelming, bloodletters are okay for the mortal wound output I guess.

Edited July 21, 2021 by That Guy

[pnkdth]

1 hour ago, That Guy said:

I feel the new plageubearers and horrors of tzeentch is where it’s at.

Yeah, daemonettes and bloodletters don't really do much currently. Daemonettes are also way over-pointed and are unlikely to get any attention anytime soon (fairly fresh tome, after all). All Slaanesh units are paying a heavy price for the their summoning. Bloodletters, hopefully, will see a suitable change whenever BoK gets a new tome.

Meanwhile, both horrors and plaguebearers are looking like great options. Having access to splitting models and tough remove blocks plays nicely into scoring and holding objectives.

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Meanwhile, both horrors and plaguebearers are looking like great options. Having access to splitting models and tough remove blocks plays nicely into scoring and holding objectives.

Indeed, especially nurgle has gained such a good buff. Since LOFP benefits so much from lesser daemons, plaguebearers are a targeted unit that gained several good revamp rules in the Maggotkin FAQ and the revamp of the sloppity bilepiper and spoilpox scrivener in the broken realm books, truelly make you able to benefit big and actually use them semi competitive. Having a reinforced unit will now guarantee you a -1 to hit against everything. And with them being close to a nurgle hero you can spare using mystic shield on them unless you face a high rend army you can easily get +2 or even +3 to your save with this unit. In fact a +4 save is even possible(Spoilpox ability, mystic shield, being close to a nurgle hero and sitting in cover). Them easily being 4+ 5++ with -1 to hit makes them a really annoying unit to deal with. These heroes with their new abilities just turn plaguebearers to 11. In fact it makes them more terrifying than bloodletters in combat. The new split mechanic and faq on it for horrors is just downright amazing. I do wonder if Kairos is still worth it when it comes to his new point value? What do you guys think? To Kairos or not to Kairos? 

Edited July 21, 2021 by That Guy

[pnkdth]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:13 PM, That Guy said:

Indeed, especially nurgle has gained such a good buff. Since LOFP benefits so much from lesser daemons, plaguebearers are a targeted unit that gained several good revamp rules in the Maggotkin FAQ and the revamp of the sloppity bilepiper and spoilpox scrivener in the broken realm books, truelly make you able to benefit big and actually use them semi competitive. Having a reinforced unit will now guarantee you a -1 to hit against everything. And with them being close to a nurgle hero you can spare using mystic shield on them unless you face a high rend army you can easily get +2 or even +3 to your save with this unit. In fact a +4 save is even possible(Spoilpox ability, mystic shield, being close to a nurgle hero and sitting in cover). Them easily being 4+ 5++ with -1 to hit makes them a really annoying unit to deal with. These heroes with their new abilities just turn plaguebearers to 11. In fact it makes them more terrifying than bloodletters in combat. The new split mechanic and faq on it for horrors is just downright amazing. I do wonder if Kairos is still worth it when it comes to his new point value? What do you guys think? To Kairos or not to Kairos? 

Yeah, the changes to the support heroes makes PBs even more enticing. Just sad to see the other gods (though Tzeentch got some cool stuff) have such lacklustre support heroes. But it is what it is, the eternal cheese wheel of the meta must ever roll down the hills, far and wide.

Karios has gained enough from 3rd to justify his points IMO. In addition to the monster/character rules, he's also able to complete certain objectives for us.

[That Guy]

13 hours ago, pnkdth said:

he's also able to complete certain objectives for us.

Could you give specifics? And indeed... I wasn't even thinking about the monster and character rules of 3rd.

[pnkdth]

11 hours ago, That Guy said:

Could you give specifics? And indeed... I wasn't even thinking about the monster and character rules of 3rd.

I was thinking of battle tactics such as Broken Ranks, Take it down!, Monstrous Takeover, Slay the warlord giving extra victory points if completed by a monster (one requiring you to be a monster).

[Shadow]

I took a LotFP list to a 3 round tourney and won 2 of 3 matches, both wins were big easy wins and the third was against a three fox lumineth list and that guy came in 2nd of 20 players. I really didn’t know how his list worked so I was at a disadvantage there.

 

my list is; 
Belakor

Bloodthirster of Rage

infernal enrapturess

contorted epitome (four fold blade)

daemon Prince of Khorne (General, ruinous aura, armor of the pact) 

2 units of 10 pink horrors 

2 units of 5 Flesh hounds (Now battleline in GHB 2021)

endless spells - lauchon & lifeswarm

Warlord and 1 drop battalion for 4 drop list.

the Bloodthirster is a distraction fex to keep attention off the Daemon Prince of Khorne who will be halving charges and runs for everything in 18” and suddenly with redeploy even a 3” charge is suddenly difficult to pull off. With this ability alone I can worry less about being double turned and can afford to give away double turns. The Dp has a rerollable 3+ armor save with 5+ FNP that can easily be a 2+ rerollable armor save.

the enrapturess has a solid -3 rend d3 damage shot for bracketing characters and really messes with spell casters by making them reroll successful spells cast and doubles = d3 damage. 

the contorted reroll a casts and casts a spell to reroll 1’s to hit d3 units which helps the blood thirster roll a 6 to splash mortals in the enemy army. His job is to be a distraction fex because hitting on 4’s really sucks. The contorted can also cast lauchon on pinks (Wizard if 9+ models) and teleport them or the contorted can use it to teleport the four fold blade into something for a charge and absorb the mortal wound caused on a 2+.

a unit of pinks around belakor to absorb wounds and around Dp with 5+ fnp on every single horror (aura buff) is massive. 
 

the dogs are now battleline, they are 5 models with 2 wounds (don’t care about cohesion), they dispel casters, have a 2+ to hit shooting attack, move 8 inches and make excellent fast screens to keep up with the faster characters. They have 4 attacks each that hit on 3’s. 
 

in this list the characters do all the road plowing, against KO I charged in a Contorted with four fold blade with the spell that made a daemon fight again on death and she did 12 mortal wounds to a unit of 10 Wound KO, was killed by another unit and then did 17 mortal wounds to that unit wiping both units on the left side of the table in one move leaving the summoned daemons tree to freely pick up the objective for just standing there.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Shadow

[Holy_Diver]

I think also the Changeling is very interesting to play in this allegiance. This is what he can do for 170 points:

- deep strike in enemy zone (out of 3"!) at the end of your first move phase, after he can summon 5 horrors near him.
- within 9", target unit get: -1 to hit (ranged and melee) and halves movement, until your next hero phase.
- he casts/dispell 2 spells and knows all the spells of enemy wizards within 9".
- you can cast Metamorphosis on him, the turn after he arrives, to: count 5 models on a objective, destroy enemy scenery or shot 5 wounds support heroes.
- you can do easly "Savege Spearhead" battle tactic  with him and another unit.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Holy_Diver
correction

[C.A.O.S]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:29 PM, Holy_Diver said:

I think also the Changeling is very interesting to play in this allegiance. This is what he can do for 170 points:

- deep strike in enemy zone (out of 3"!) at the end of your first move phase, after he can summon 5 horrors near him.
- within 9", target unit get: -1 to hit (ranged and melee) and halves movement, until your next hero phase.
- he casts/dispell 2 spells and knows all the spells of enemy wizards within 9".
- you can cast Metamorphosis on him, the turn after he arrives, to: count 5 models on a objective, destroy enemy scenery or shot 5 wounds support heroes.
- you can do easly "Savege Spearhead" battle tactic  with him and another unit.

I've tried the changeling against an archaon nurgle list. It is really strong, combined with belakor, and khorne daemon prince

[Holy_Diver]

15 hours ago, C.A.O.S said:

I've tried the changeling against an archaon nurgle list. It is really strong, combined with belakor, and khorne daemon prince

Can imagine. What was your list?

[C.A.O.S]

6 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

Can imagine. What was your list?

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince

- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery

- Triumphs:

 

Leaders

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360) in Battle Regiment

- General

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

The Changeling (170) in Battle Regiment

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) in Battle Regiment

- Sword

- Artefact: Armour of the Pact

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Kairos Fateweaver (435) in Battle Regiment

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

 

Battleline

20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (430) in Battle Regiment

- Reinforced x 1

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215) in Battle Regiment

10 x Plaguebearers (110) in Battle Regiment

 

Endless Spells & Invocations

Umbral Spellportal (70)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 1 / 4

 

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 81

 

This was my list. Really focused on dealing with big centerpieces and deathstars. I think that it lacks a little bit of damage, but I've preferred to focus on playing the missions and denying enemy scoring, instead of wipe out my opponent

[Holy_Diver]

5 hours ago, C.A.O.S said:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince

- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery

- Triumphs:

 

Leaders

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360) in Battle Regiment

- General

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

The Changeling (170) in Battle Regiment

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) in Battle Regiment

- Sword

- Artefact: Armour of the Pact

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Kairos Fateweaver (435) in Battle Regiment

- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command

 

Battleline

20 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (430) in Battle Regiment

- Reinforced x 1

10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215) in Battle Regiment

10 x Plaguebearers (110) in Battle Regiment

 

Endless Spells & Invocations

Umbral Spellportal (70)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 1 / 4

 

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 81

 

This was my list. Really focused on dealing with big centerpieces and deathstars. I think that it lacks a little bit of damage, but I've preferred to focus on playing the missions and denying enemy scoring, instead of wipe out my opponent

I see. Why not to make the DP general for Ruinous Aura? That trait is too strong to leave it at home.
Another thing I'm not aure about is: lower drops or not care.

[Russ]

I had my first tournament games today. My list was:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)*
- General
- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (130)*
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Sword
- Artefact: Armour of the Pact  
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
The Contorted Epitome (255)*
- Artefact: Fourfold Blade  
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)*
10 x Plaguebearers (110)**
10 x Plaguebearers (110)**

Units
6 x Plague Drones (390)**
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
Drops: 5

Game 1 vs Sons - Lost to Sons

Game 2 vs Gitz (Trogs with Kragnos) - Win to LotFP

Game 3 vs Tzeentch - Win to LotFP

Game 4 tomorrow against Orruk Warclans inc Kragnos

[C.A.O.S]

8 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

I see. Why not to make the DP general for Ruinous Aura? That trait is too strong to leave it at home.
Another thing I'm not aure about is: lower drops or not care.

Because from practice, i see that generally speaking i have a lot of difficulties mantaining 20 pink wholly 8" from a small base daemon prince. It is more important on the heroes, but in general, since i summon only pink, recover 2/3 pink per battleshock (so 5/6 in a single turn) is still very strong, and allow me to utilize the daemon prince better. 

5 hours ago, Russ said:

I had my first tournament games today. My list was:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)*
- General
- Lore of Ruinous Sorcery: The Master's Command
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (130)*
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Sword
- Artefact: Armour of the Pact  
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)**
- Sword
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
The Contorted Epitome (255)*
- Artefact: Fourfold Blade  
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (215)*
10 x Plaguebearers (110)**
10 x Plaguebearers (110)**

Units
6 x Plague Drones (390)**
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 102
Drops: 5

Game 1 vs Sons - Lost to Sons

Game 2 vs Gitz (Trogs with Kragnos) - Win to LotFP

Game 3 vs Tzeentch - Win to LotFP

Game 4 tomorrow against Orruk Warclans inc Kragnos

Plague drone are very interesting now, since can do a lot of damage in an army that lacks in dealing damage. Good luck for today!