AoS 2 - Legion of the First Prince Discussion (Belakor)

[Hannibal]

53 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant - Host of Chaos: Legion of the First Prince

LEADERS

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade - Spell: Spirit Gouge

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

UNITS

30 x Plaguebearers (300)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

3 x Flamers of Tzeentch (140)

-------------

(980)

 

What about this for 1000 points?

53 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:

I am still looking for any ideas for 1k. Take Be'Lakor or leave him out at 1k?

I´m not sure. I´m heavily undecided concerning the use of Belakor.

[Gristlegut]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:19 AM, Hannibal said:

What about this for 1000 points?

I´m not sure. I´m heavily undecided concerning the use of Belakor.

Allegiance: Legion of Chaos Ascendant

LEADERS Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch (240) - General - Command Trait: Primordial Commander

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

UNITS

20 x Plaguebearers (220)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

TOTAL: 1000

See where I am going here? Also, no spells any more.....

[Kasper]

Yeah Im doubting that Be'lakor is worth his points even in 2.000 pts lists. Yes he can shut down 1 key unit (66% of the time, granted - Unless it is a combat unit, in which case you get to do a 66% in the movement, charge and combat phase) but what if he fails? His combat profile is still pretty bad. Before he could kill half a unit of 10 Skinks guarding an objective. Now he can likely kill it/battleshock the remaining, thats it. He isnt a combat monster that you can buff up and send forward to kill even semi weak units. He takes up almost 1/5 of your entire army, so in the cases where he fails his one single trick, you are almost playing a 1600 vs 2000 pts game from the get-go.

Be'lakors role in my games will likely be sitting back until he uses his ability in turn 1 or turn 2, then go forward on a solo mission vs weak guarded objectives like 10 Skinks etc. Im not sure giving up 400 pts is worth this. Imagine against Seraphon - You try to shut down Kroak for 1 turn but fails. Now you are pretty much playing 1600 vs 2000 pts.

He effectively takes up a major threat slot in your army - He could be something like a big hammer unit or Kairos etc. Arguably I think those would have a much bigger impact on the game. Yes its cool to shut down Kroak or Teclis for 1 turn, but is that gonna make the 400 pts back? I honestly dont know.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Kasper

[Mandollies]

Text didn't copy across good; lets try that again

Edited April 29, 2021 by Mandollies

[Mandollies]

So Sigmar Rules Question (prompted by a off hand comment Warhammer Weekly made that gave me this idea - FWIW they didn't pick up on the potential ramifications);

LEGION OF THE FIRST PRINCE
When you pick the Chaos allegiance for your army, you can say that it will be a Legion of the First Prince army.

This is from the Slaanesh army (the closest thing I can find;)
ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
This section describes the allegiance abilities available to a Slaanesh army. The rules for using allegiance abilities can be found in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar Core Book.

From Broken Realms Morathi (Stormkeep)
When you pick the Stormcast Eternals allegiance for your army, you can say it will be a Stormkeep army. If you do so, you must use the Celestial Sentinels battle traits on this page instead of the Legends of the Living Tempest battle traits from Battletome: Stormcast Eternals (it is still considered to be a Stormcast Eternals army for the purposes of the other allegiance abilities).

Does this mean that the Legion of the First Prince is still a Chaos Army and so benefits from the generic Chaos Battle Traits; Command Trait & Artefacts?

Further to that (and to be honest this is a bigger Question as the Chaos Allegiance abilities are a bundle of Meh) The FAQ states;

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)?
A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

The Question is then; as Legion of the First Princes is a Chaos Allegiance army (possibly) does this mean that it can take the various Daemon Battalions and have them not count as Allies?

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Mandollies said:

So Sigmar Rules Question (prompted by a off hand comment Warhammer Weekly made that gave me this idea - FWIW they didn't pick up on the potential ramifications);

LEGION OF THE FIRST PRINCE
When you pick the Chaos allegiance for your army, you can say that it will be a Legion of the First Prince army.

This is from the Slaanesh army (the closest thing I can find;)
ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
This section describes the allegiance abilities available to a Slaanesh army. The rules for using allegiance abilities can be found in the Warhammer Age of Sigmar Core Book.

From Broken Realms Morathi (Stormkeep)
When you pick the Stormcast Eternals allegiance for your army, you can say it will be a Stormkeep army. If you do so, you must use the Celestial Sentinels battle traits on this page instead of the Legends of the Living Tempest battle traits from Battletome: Stormcast Eternals (it is still considered to be a Stormcast Eternals army for the purposes of the other allegiance abilities).

Does this mean that the Legion of the First Prince is still a Chaos Army and so benefits from the generic Chaos Battle Traits; Command Trait & Artefacts?

Further to that (and to be honest this is a bigger Question as the Chaos Allegiance abilities are a bundle of Meh) The FAQ states;

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)?
A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle).

The Question is then; as Legion of the First Princes is a Chaos Allegiance army (possibly) does this mean that it can take the various Daemon Battalions and have them not count as Allies?

Probably better off posting this in the rules section, but I dont get your final question - Daemons are never allies in this alligiance. It specifically says the alligiance is made up of any Daemons.

[Nezgor]

Hello, I present this list that I am studying, Belakor I do not think it is worth the points it is worth since its total damage is 20 by 380 points I think we have more valid options than him.
Would you make any changes?
I have about 150 points of margin to modify things.

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- General
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
The Changeling (140)

Battleline
10 x Daemonettes (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)

Units
9 x Flamers of Tzeentch (420)
3 x Beasts of Nurgle (360)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

[Gristlegut]

1 hour ago, Nezgor said:

Hello, I present this list that I am studying, Belakor I do not think it is worth the points it is worth since its total damage is 20 by 380 points I think we have more valid options than him.
Would you make any changes?
I have about 150 points of margin to modify things.

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- General
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
The Changeling (140)

Battleline
10 x Daemonettes (110)
10 x Plaguebearers (110)
10 x Bloodletters (110)

Units
9 x Flamers of Tzeentch (420)
3 x Beasts of Nurgle (360)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Burning Sigil of Tzeentch (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

 Few thoughts:

1. Are you going with LotFP? If so, take the Fourfold artifact on your corruptor.

2. I would break down your flamers to 6x and add an exalted Flamer for the buffs.

3. Bloodthrister for a LoC or Kairos. If you don't have those guys then you might want to think about a GUO with dagger and bell. He will give those Beasts an extra 2" if you need it. I have been trying to figure out if I can get GUO and Kairos in together, that Plague Wind spell is super good and can keep your VC alive a little longer.

4. I love BoN, but for the points I think you will get a bigger bang with plague drones. They can team up with VC if you go on the offensive and get the +1 attack or can be super buffed as an anti charge unit with VC and piper.

It all depends on the models you have.

I am not going to waive Be'Lakor yet. He is a tank and his ability combined with Kariros' oracle of eternity can make things interesting. I just need to get him on the table and see what he can do. 

Let me know if you change anything and then how it does on the table.

[pnkdth]

'ello there! I'd like some feedback on a list I've been cooking up. 

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince - General, Axe, Mark of Khorne - Command Trait: Ruinous Aura, Artefact: Armour of the Pact

The Masque 

The Blue Scribes (fold reality)

20 x Daemonettes 

10 x Plaguebearers 

10 x Plaguebearers 

3 x Beasts of Nurgle 

6 x Fiends 

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch 

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch

The general idea is a refused flank deployment (alternatively a spearhead). Using the Daemon Prince to lends to aura of 5+ shrug to the fiends + CP ability to really let the faster elements of the list have an even stronger board control. Baby heroes stay out of sight for as much as they can (summoners for board control) and Blue Scribe will cast throw mystic shield and try to bring back flamers if possible with fold reality. Daemonettes zoom up the board and the PBs serve as either screens or chilling at the back.

The only caveat is I'm not very fond of huge models. Otherwise this army is going to be an outlet for the pure chaos that's in my mind and I will happily accept any feedback and suggestions. It is likely to shift and change over time so more is more.

Cheers!

 

[Kasper]

11 hours ago, pnkdth said:

'ello there! I'd like some feedback on a list I've been cooking up. 

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince - General, Axe, Mark of Khorne - Command Trait: Ruinous Aura, Artefact: Armour of the Pact

The Masque 

The Blue Scribes (fold reality)

20 x Daemonettes 

10 x Plaguebearers 

10 x Plaguebearers 

3 x Beasts of Nurgle 

6 x Fiends 

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch 

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch

The general idea is a refused flank deployment (alternatively a spearhead). Using the Daemon Prince to lends to aura of 5+ shrug to the fiends + CP ability to really let the faster elements of the list have an even stronger board control. Baby heroes stay out of sight for as much as they can (summoners for board control) and Blue Scribe will cast throw mystic shield and try to bring back flamers if possible with fold reality. Daemonettes zoom up the board and the PBs serve as either screens or chilling at the back.

The only caveat is I'm not very fond of huge models. Otherwise this army is going to be an outlet for the pure chaos that's in my mind and I will happily accept any feedback and suggestions. It is likely to shift and change over time so more is more.

Cheers!

 

You cant pick Fold Reality in this allegiance. There is only one spell the Wizards can know except their warscroll spell. 

[Karazla]

Last satuday i played a battle against lumineth, He didnt play teclis. 
He played some lose casters and a lot of bodies. Dont know lumineth wel enough to give the list.

I won, i was really surprised by the furies and the durabiltie of the entire army, I kept slishing. the only thing dat didnt work like i expect where the 30 bloodletters there bases realy nerf what you can do with them. And maybe charging into 20 spearmen wasn't the smart choice. Need to check them out one more time. I am propably playing this list in a tournament with friends. I like the synergies but also the punch that it brings.

i think be'lakor is important. He shut down the teleport but also single handed killed 20 spearmen.

My list was:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380)
- General
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (270)
Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)
Verminlord Corruptor (280)
- Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (300)
30 x Plaguebearers (300)
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (220)

Units
6 x Furies (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

only thing i am wondering about are the bloodletters the rest did what they had to do realy well

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Karazla

[Gristlegut]

So I am reading about bringing VL Deceiver instead of Corruptor. the idea is that he can get in close then launch vortex on enemy. It's interesting. But my question is about the Deceivers chaos allegiance? I don't think he is nurgle nor does have a chaos mark. Am I missing something? And he can't summon since he doesn't have an allegiance on his warscroll? Thoughts?

[Eldarain]

All he needs is Chaos and Daemon keywords. Not sure what you mean about summoning. This Allegiance just has the set ways of doing that AFAIK.

[Gristlegut]

3 hours ago, Eldarain said:

All he needs is Chaos and Daemon keywords. Not sure what you mean about summoning. This Allegiance just has the set ways of doing that AFAIK.

VLD has those. what he doesn't have is a chaos god allegiance, nurgle or khorne. So, from what I can tell, he can't summon any of the battleline demons. For example, VL Corruptor can summon plague bearers because he has the nurgle keyword.

[Eldarain]

4 hours ago, Gristlegut said:

VLD has those. what he doesn't have is a chaos god allegiance, nurgle or khorne. So, from what I can tell, he can't summon any of the battleline demons. For example, VL Corruptor can summon plague bearers because he has the nurgle keyword.

Ah I see. I misremembered there being a "no keyword" option but that's just Be'Lakor.

So that is something to be aware of that you'll be down one summoning node if you opt for him.

[Charleston]

Short question: Are Chaos Daemons/Legion of the first Prince fun to play? What is your experience?

[firtahl]

Had a difference in rules reading today in a game with Belakor. On  his ability to reroll hits, i read the rule to say that there needed to be at least 1 plague bearer, bloodletter, damonette, AND horror within 18". My opponents read was that it only requires 1 unit from the list of basic demon warscrolls. Can anyone confirm which interpretation is correct?

Thanks!

[Eldarain]

@firtahl "from each of the following warscrolls" makes it look like you need all 4 present to me.

[Mikeymajq]

Anyone tried an all Khorne daemons list? Any advice on what to do/bring? 

[Gristlegut]

VLC is a super power in 3.0, holy smokes. Point raise coming?

[pnkdth]

With the changes to Arcane Bolt, a VL Corruptor (with fourfold blade) becomes even more of a mortal wound bomb. Tasty! 

Add in all the new fun stuff and you got a real beast on your hands.

[Gristlegut]

Looking for a non Kairos list. Looking for comments:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince

LEADERS

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) -General

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword

UNITS

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Warp Lightning Vortex (80)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 104

Got two games coming. One with Teclis led LRL where the DP will go Nurgle. The other is FEC feast day where DP will go Khorne.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Gristlegut

[pnkdth]

42 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:

Looking for a non Kairos list. Looking for comments:

Allegiance: Legion of the First Prince

LEADERS

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) -General

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword

UNITS

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

3 x Screamers of Tzeentch (80)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Warp Lightning Vortex (80)

TOTAL: 2000/2000 WOUNDS: 104

Got two games coming. One with Teclis led LRL where the DP will go Nurgle. The other is FEC feast day where DP will go Khorne.

 

Looks solid.

I really like the Bilepiper as it really adds both punch and mobility.

Only thing I might change is to turn two PBs units into a block of 20. Better target for Master's Command and can challenge more for objectives with more presence.

But yeah, it looks good. Khorne DP is life, VLC hurts a lot, and you got good magic and shooting. Let us know how it turns out!

[Gristlegut]

2 hours ago, pnkdth said:

Looks solid.

I really like the Bilepiper as it really adds both punch and mobility.

Only thing I might change is to turn two PBs units into a block of 20. Better target for Master's Command and can challenge more for objectives with more presence.

But yeah, it looks good. Khorne DP is life, VLC hurts a lot, and you got good magic and shooting. Let us know how it turns out!

Here is the other list I was considering, nit-picking, but I like having more demon battlelines on the board. Especially with the two magic heavy armies I am facing. I also get an extra CP for DP or VLC where needed. How does the Bilepiper help with mobility?

second choice list:

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) - General

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword

UNITS

20 x Plaguebearers (220)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Extra Command Point (50)

2000/2000

My thought is that it will be tough to get the vortex off against a Teclis or Arch Recheant with +2 to casting. again, I will go nurgle against LRL and Khorne against FEC. Got to slow down those terrorgheists.

 

[pnkdth]

47 minutes ago, Gristlegut said:

Here is the other list I was considering, nit-picking, but I like having more demon battlelines on the board. Especially with the two magic heavy armies I am facing. I also get an extra CP for DP or VLC where needed. How does the Bilepiper help with mobility?

second choice list:

Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (380) - General

Verminlord Corruptor (280) - Artefact: Fourfold Blade

Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (150)

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210) - Sword

UNITS

20 x Plaguebearers (220)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

10 x Plaguebearers (110)

1 x Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch (100)

6 x Flamers of Tzeentch (280)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Extra Command Point (50)

2000/2000

My thought is that it will be tough to get the vortex off against a Teclis or Arch Recheant with +2 to casting. again, I will go nurgle against LRL and Khorne against FEC. Got to slow down those terrorgheists.

 

I was referring to controlling movement with anti-pile in moves. Badly phrased and I blame the heat. 

Yeah, you are probably right and I hate why. I get why LRL should be awesome with magic but it is just so disheartening to see people drop an entire aspect of the game because of the designer of LRL thought it was awesome to design an army based on undermining the experience and the game for the opponent. 

The second list also have the benefit of preventing teleports/redeploys better with more bodies.