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Hi folks, this is my 1st post actually :)

I was just wondering who do you think is going to win the battle for the eight points? 

I think that since the Ossiarch just got introduced with Katakros depicted as a one of the greatest generals who has ever lived, they need to make him suceed to establish how threatening he can be. 

On the other end Chaos has been on the defensive since sigmarines got into the fight and they could also use a victory.. 

What do you think? Is this going to turn into another stalemate or a decisive victory?? 

Can't wait to read your opinion! :)

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Archaon, not just because he’s an established character, but because he has been elevated to demigod/borderline god. On top of that Katakros has made the mistake on launching a siege where the entirety of the varanguard(Chaos lords who serve Archaon and get to ****** slap daemon princes) call home, plus whatever amount of cultists, murders, and daemon hordes are around. 

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One's the champion of four Gods much older than Nagash who managed to destroy a world, one's Nagash greatest general.

If they came face to face there should be like zero contest, Kat should be dead in 1 second. Tactics-wise it feels like Archaon should have the edge as well as - if I'm getting it right - he's the defending party here  (with in theory limitless backup due to daemons) but I guess it'll be fully up the writer in the end. I see no smart way where Katakros could win on his own (plus if he did win they'd have to remove at least the whole Archaon part of StD, which they won't) but let's see whom the writers favor. In theory lots of SC could attack the Varanspire at the same time or something...

Personally I don't care. I like Archaon more cause he's older but that's about it - he's quite bland. I don't know enough about Katakros although I imagine him to be kinda bland as well - a) because's he's new and b) because most writing these days is a bit lackluster. 

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I want to agree.  This is basically the seat of power for Archaon.  Not even Sigmar and the Stormcast have been stupid enough to assault him directly there yet, electing to attempt closing the realmgates to the eight points from the outside in a seven pronged attack rather than assault Archaon directly in the realm gate wars.  And Archaon has been leading the forces of evil since before the birth of the mortal realms.  Katakros is a young upstart compared to the battle field experience of Archaon.

Yet Katakros is not stupid.  He would not attempt an invasion of the most highly prized strategic location in all the mortal realms unless he had a plan and thought he could win.  He must have a idea of how to pull this off.

Being a Chaos fan, I hope Archaon will kick his bony butt crying all the way back to Nagash.

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Archaon outclasses Katakros on multiple fronts by being a 10,000+ old demigod with hundreds of destroyed worlds under his belt Plus is the defender in this campaign so has a resource advantage.

By all accounts this invasion is doomed. However Katakros is a military genius and Nagash a chess master so even if things go south there's plenty they can gain from this be it powerful magic artifacts snuck back to Nagash, disrupting Archaon's military rally allowing the realm of death to fortify after the Soul Wars battles or just political publicity as Nagash has struck a blow that Order hasn't yet which, like in Malign Portents against Nurgle, will gain Death many more followers throughout the realms.

Edit:whatever your stance you can't disagree the ancient general of Nagash has his work cut out for him.

allpoints-space.jpg

Edited by Baron Klatz
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Seeing Katakros being introduced as the most talented general ever (un)living, I can't see him attacking the Eights Points without a good plan. On a scale of power, Archaon dominate, but on the domain of strategy it's even I guess. On a battlefield, if he faced Archaon, he's doomed, period. But on a scale of a war this important  I think he got something that made him confident enough to attack. Or it is just Katakros trying his best because Nagash commanded him to but he's not really buying it and just do his best:

Nagash : "Attack the Eights Points !"  

Katakros : "But...our armies are just gathering...Shysh is not even completely secured ....and we have no intel..there are many others places that we could..."

Nagash : "Take the Varanspire ! Humiliate the Everchosen like he did to me ! I have spoken !"

Katakros: "All right  ! All right ....."

I mean, being a tactical genius when you're commanded to do dumb things ....you end up doing a mess. 

Anyway, to me if Katakros  miserably lose it will be disapointing because all the recents events in AoS lore led to this apparently (Nagash big plan with Malign Portent, the Necroquake, the Souls war...) and with this build-up I wish for an epic fight and an equally epic conclusion (but I do not hold my hopes high) to push the story forward.  Even if Katakros fail to conquer the Eight Points it can be interesting if he  puts Chaos on it's knees (as a Death fan and wanting more presence for Destruction and Death as major players who doesn't want AoS to be: "Order vs Chaos !...and the other two are in too").

Edited by Harioch
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Archaon wins, hands down. Katakros might be one of Nagash's most powerful minions, but Archaon is closer to power level of Nagash himself. And they're fighting exactly where Archaon is the strongest and has almost limitless access to reinforcements. I'd assume they'll write it as much more one sided, but looking at how these characters are presented, Archaon losing would be very inconsistent with his portrayal. He's a worthy enemy to Sigmar, Chaos Gods are starting to fear him, it would be hugely underwhelming if he lost to someone's servant.

Of course, Katakros could be potentially able to outsmart him, given that he's presented as one of the best generals ever, but Archaon and his force win through sheer power.

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It will be really boring if Archaon wins again.  If GW stays true to form, Katakros will start making a real push somehow, then skaven will pop in, blow something up, and the status wuo will be restored.

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4 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said:

It will be really boring if Archaon wins again.  If GW stays true to form, Katakros will start making a real push somehow, then skaven will pop in, blow something up, and the status wuo will be restored.

Nah new GW isn’t afraid to move the story forward... it’s going to be grots that blow something up and accidentally restore the status quo

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I think it will be an exciting war. 

Archaon is the more powerful individual but Katakros has the stronger army imo. Bonereapers have no reinforcement problems as well because they just use the bones of the fallen and every Hekatos (unit champion) is a tactical genius too. 

 

Most people here are underestimating the power of the Bonereapers and Katakros himself (who in the background killed a greater demon with a single strike of his spear Inda-Khaat of whiches real power we all know nearly nothing about)

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1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

Archaon outclasses Katakros on multiple fronts by being a 10,000+ old demigod with hundreds of destroyed worlds under his belt Plus is the defender in this campaign so has a resource advantage.

By all accounts this invasion is doomed. However Katakros is a military genius and Nagash a chess master so even if things go south there's plenty they can gain from this be it powerful magic artifacts snuck back to Nagash, disrupting Archaon's military rally allowing the realm of death to fortify after the Soul Wars battles or just political publicity as Nagash has struck a blow that Order hasn't yet which, like in Malign Portents against Nurgle, will gain Death many more followers throughout the realms.

Edit:whatever your stance you can't disagree the ancient general of Nagash has his work cut out for him.

Ooh what if the whole thing is an all-in bluff, a distraction, a feint.  The actual objective is something else.  That would be cool.

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Nah, you can see what's going to happen from the picture they previewed on community

it goes like 'Katakros Triumphant', then 'relentless conquest' , to 'Arhaon's Wrath' and 'Deathless Glory'

To me it is apparently a typical turn-based GW campaign, with Katakros gained a total victory when Archaon is not there, then suddenly the return of Archaon and he just doomed everything 

And 13 new allegiance abilities mean the aim of this expansion book is at chaos players, if you are a GW writer, do you want to tell those chaos fans who buy this book "NO your boss lost”...?

Edited by Whitefang
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11 hours ago, MitGas said:

One's the champion of four Gods much older than Nagash who managed to destroy a world, one's Nagash greatest general.

Nagash is a few thousand years older than Archaon btw.

Katakros would win since Archaon is nothing but a self-pitying former Priest of Sigmar that has been twisted by Be‘lakor. Without his artefacts Archaon is rather useless.

 

Katakros is THE tactical genius which leads unwavering super-Elite undeads to battle that can be resurrected.

Edited by JackStreicher
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Katakros has the more disciplined troops who require remarkably little resupply. They don't eat, sleep, or tire, after all. He's studied the art of war since before death, and doubtless put some of those hours in to learning what he could about Archaon, with direct data available from Nagash once he got a refund on death. This makes an invasion of the Allpoints theoretically feasible for Katakros, as he can replenish his forces with the enemy fallen and keep pressing relentlessly forward.

All that said, my money is still on Archaon. It's unclear just how much information about the current state of the Allpoints is readily available, but from what I understand, Archaon has that place locked down pretty tight. Control of information and familiarity with territory are essential to any successful campaign, and there's no question as to who has the advantage there.

 

My money is on this campaign being less about conquering the Allpoints, and more about establishing a foothold.  If Nagash can get a few key strategic locations in Archaon's seat of power and hold onto them, he can change the terms of the war in the realms. Right now, Archaon is the one determining when and how his forces engage with the enemy, and can do so at his leisure because he's turtled up in the most strategically advantageous location in all the realms.

The campaign itself is likely a "shock-and-awe" approach to making that happen. Present Archaon with a problem he can't ignore (Katakros rampaging across the Allpoints, conquering left and right) and use the distraction to enact the real plan. Any other gains made by Katakros are just gravy.

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After end of times is imposible that archaon loose to a nobody undead. He gonna win 100% for sure

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I see it going one of two ways:

Archaon's legions utterly destroy the Bonereapers in the field, but as he's exulting in victory Katakros reveals that losing this epic battle was always the plan. The real objective was <something far more important to Nagash>, and that's now been achieved by keeping Archaon distracted, mua ha ha; or

Katakros and Archaon both win massive victories and suffer terrible defeats as the war rages back and forth, but eventually the essentially limitless nature of both armies makes it clear that this is a deadlock which cannot be broken by either side. Then <some unexpected cataclysm> rocks the Mortal Realms, shatters the forces and the confidence of both sides, and is revealed to be the work of a powerful third party making a decisive entry into the conflict. Reignited, the war rages on...

(GW's storylines generally do not include any genuine surprises, and tend to focus on making everyone feel good about their choice of allegiance. Either of these outcomes allows players from both sides to feel like their team is still the best. Apart from that, it's a pretty basic Unstoppable Force versus Immovable Object situation - either they somehow both win, or they cancel each other out. I think it's extremely unlikely that either side will "lose" in any meaningful way.)

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Nagash is a few thousand years older than Archaon btw.

Katakros would win since Archaon is nothing but a self-pitying former Priest of Sigmar that has been twisted by Be‘lakor. Without his artefacts Archaon is rather useless.

 

Katakros is THE tactical genius which leads unwavering super-Elite unseals to battle that can be resurrected.

The Chaos Gods are older and together FAR MORE powerful than Nagash. I was referring to them obviously.... Sigh.

Yeah, in a 1 on 1 Archaon would crush Katakros. I said nothing more. Could very well be Katakros would outsmart Archaon but that is something I've already said.

Thanks for playing, read my post next time. 

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5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Nagash is a few thousand years older than Archaon btw.

Katakros would win since Archaon is nothing but a self-pitying former Priest of Sigmar that has been twisted by Be‘lakor. Without his artefacts Archaon is rather useless.

 

Katakros is THE tactical genius which leads unwavering super-Elite unseals to battle that can be resurrected.

If Katakros is such hot stuff he’d be the Everchosen.

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I want to like Katakros. I want him to be justified in calling himself "The Undefeated One" even though he repeatedly loses in his background lore.  This is the perfect time to give him a big moment. But... this book is aimed at Chaos players so I don't expect much.

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In a straight up Said AoS battle, Archaon wins. But that won't be the fight here 

 

Nagash is a looooooooooooong term planner. I suspect his own is not "hey, Katakros, go kill that guy." It's more like "go do this thing. Distract. Create mayhem. Plant a seed that will grow and bear fruit later."

Maybe it's just to weaken the All-points and encourage Order to strike, opening Azyr to assault from Orruks, thus killing many mortals and sending souls to Nagash for his next whatever.  I dunno.

 

I just know (think) it won't be K vs. A Death Match.

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As much as we all might enjoy baring our teeth at each other and pledging allegiance to the Everchump or Lord Codpiece, I think @Kadetonhas the right of it: everybody's going to get something, and nothing too radical is going to change...

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Considering how much both of these  warlords boast  there tactical provers I’m guessing that it will be a major loss on both side, which will end in Archaon and the so called Katakros killing each other in combat, giving space for the true chaos deity known as the great horned rat to rise-rise!!

uahahahahaha

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I assume OBR will win a few battles and establish a beach head. Chaos will win a few battles and besiege them.

Finally Archaon fights Katakross and is about to deliver the killing blow when Orruk Ex Machina arrives, hoofs him in the nuts and we discover it was all a misdirection. Status quo reset, everybody gets something to cheer. 

The campaign moves on to Excelsis & the Ruination Chamber is opened as a tribe of Gargants join forces with Gordrakk.

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10 hours ago, Kramer said:

Nah new GW isn’t afraid to move the story forward... it’s going to be grots that blow something up and accidentally restore the status quo

Its Nagash, so its the Skaven Accidential Sabotage(tm). 

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