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Skaventide points adjustments, hopes and wishes.


Skreech Verminking

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So with the coming of the battletome, the tournament scene have trembled of-of fear from all those different Skaventide army list.

 

With some points adjustments, many units have either increased or decreased their cost in the last few months.

 

Even so the battletome still feels a bit off, having so many units that have almost to literally never seen the battlefield, either because they are easily replaced by mich better options, or are just entirely overcosted.

 

Since this is the case I thought of making a thread were we skaventide lovers and haters can write our wishes and hopes about certain units that could be in need for a points increase or decrease.

 

My thoughts on the units are basically this:

 

Clans  verminus:

 

Clanrats: 100/200

Stormvermin:120/400

Clawlord:90

 

Stormvermins are probably one of the most expensive unit in the whole Skaventide roster.

The reason for choosing them to get another massive points reduction of 50points is basically to keep them in line with the other cheaper elite units the skaven and other factions have to other.

The clan-rats are great for their points, although it just sometimes feels wrong to have a unit like them cost 120points for literally dying in droves, which is why i choose to give them a points reduction of 20 points.

The Clawlord is basically one of those lords that can be killed by literally anything that is cheaper then him.

Although he isn’t great at buffing units I still thought that giving him a points decrease of 10 might keep him at the same level as the beastlord and the hag queen.

 

 

Clans Moulder:

Rat ogres:80p

Rat swarms:50

After the Ogor mawtribes have been announced, the elite brutish rat-ogors have lost that image, knowing that they are still a great unit, I thought bringing them down to 40points per model would keep them in line with the rest of the brutish ogors.

Rat swarms on the other hand were just overcosted and never saw a fitting place in the ranks of the skaven with that amount of points.

Decreasing it to 50 might make it a more i interesting option for capturing objectives in the late game.

 

Clans Eshin:

Deathmaster:80

Night runner:60/220

 

I think we all probably knew the day would come were the backstabbing hordes of clans eshin might make the list.

Night runners are literally a bad option at 80points, they hit like a sponge and weren’t even worth as meatshields.

With a decrease of 20 they might have a chance to see the battlefield.

The death-master had a similar fate awaiting.

Although being a great looking hero, he really doesn’t seem to be great at his job of assassinating, and is more useless than out beloved clawlord in buffing any units.

A reason of why I thought that he might be a good option to consider taking at 80points, since this would also bring him up to pair with the assassin from the city of sigmar tome.

 

Clans Skryre:

Doom wheel:145

Doom flayer:40

Warlock engineer:90

Warlock bombardier:100

Warpgrinder:60

 

Now I won’t go over every unit entlisted on here but, the doom flayer really needs to go down at least 20points.

His overheating Mechanismus is much higher than that of other weapon teams, and with his low attack profile and almost no damage and rend, this little ****** is probably the worst unit in the entire game.

Bringing him down to 40 might make him an juicy choice over a endless spell.

 

Clans pestilence:

Plague censer bearers:50/180

 

 

Masterclan:

Verminlord warpseer:350

 

Battailons:

Claw horde:100

Fleshmeld menagerie:130

Slinktalon:130

Warpcog convocations and all of it’s engine coven not including Arkspark should all go 20points down.

 

The skaventide battletome is all in all a fantastic book with a huge option of list building variety.

 Sadly when it comes down to the battalions, almost non of ours are even considered good.

Costing more then 150points these battalions often just give you a small buff that doesn’t give you an advantage for such a huge cost.

And example would be the clawhorde, which is probably one of the worst of it’s kind, which gives the user of the battailon, literally no buffs at all.

The only upside to it is the extra artifact and command-point you get as well as making your army a 9drop instead of an 11.

Considering that you are paying almost 200points for that battailon, makes it literally unusable, which is one of many reasons why I would drop it down to a 100.

 

 

 

These are basically just a few thoughts I had.

So If you agree/disagree or just have your own thoughts you would like to share I’m all ‘ears😁

 
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You ran the whole unit roster. Very nice.

I wasn't expecting a change to clanrats but certainly a welcome one.

The battalions change is a must across the board. I can't remember the last time I had more than 1 artifact or beat an opponent in drops. I could see Fleshmeld Menagerie remaining higher because unlike the other's, its the most flexible list building potential. There's some taxes and a worthless ability but it gives you everything to start a Moulder army and could be a 1 drop if you wanted. I think its  the 2nd best "designed" battalion we have after Congregation. 

I wasn't expecting a drop to the clawlord or deathmaster but I've come around to it. Its all upside down. The claword has a command ability buff that doesn't (effectivley) but their stock warscroll can do some work. The assassin doesn't buff anything and doesn't assassinate anything (with a SOJ artifact maybe, but then again we don't have spare artifacts do we). Drop them points.

Also Plague Censor Bearers? Forgot those existed. I approve. 

My personal contribution is rolling back some increases we've had that were unnecessary. Roll points back by 20 for the Hellpit and Deceiver please and thank you. The two center-piece models for the lowliest clans don't need such hate. 

The remaining thoughts concern changes that could be made on the pitched profiles page in general:

  • Make clanrats count as clan keyworded (i suppose thats warscroll territory but whatever, if fact, give stormvermin this too!)
  • Change Doomflayers to units of 3 for min size for the same cost
  • Doomwheels should not count as behemoth in skryre. I want to field more gosh darn it.
  • If we drop the clawlord, might as well put Skritch's Swarm at 100. Go get em'.
  • Lord Skreech, drop 'em to 280. He does a whole lot, a whole lot of nothing. Lord of skaven my butt.

Everything else you said was pure liquid gold. 

Its so tempting to start talking about rules changes to justify points adjustments but that's not what the threads about. And lets be real, based on how long it took the plague monks scroll to change, might as well wait for another book. 

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I think that if you have any hope of see clanrats decrease in points you gonna be dissapointed.

 

120 points for 20 wounds is cheap allready,if they get any changue would be a increase lol

 

Btw i hope a increase of 50 points in every verminlord

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3 hours ago, Doko said:

I think that if you have any hope of see clanrats decrease in points you gonna be dissapointed.

 

120 points for 20 wounds is cheap allready,if they get any changue would be a increase lol

 

Btw i hope a increase of 50 points in every verminlord

Yeah there are definitely some Verminlords who could use an increase.

although I’m not sure if it is a fair balance across the board to up every verminlord another 50,

For example I always found the Verminlord Warbringer, who indeed is the better melee version of the verminlords a bit lackluster in combat.

he is similar like the clawlord, either he does some damage or nothing, but his spell is probably one of the best buffers in the game.

 So maybe bringing the verminlord warbringer up 300,

Deceiver down to 300

Corruptor kept at 280

Me  down to 300

and the warpseer up to 360

might do the trick 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Congratz said:

Going to a small point tournement here soon and i was wondering what is best for 1200 points. What do people think about this list
 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Skaventide

Leaders
Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (240)
- General
- Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of Ruin: Warpgale
Arch-Warlock (160)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
30 x Skryre Acolytes (320)

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (240)

Total: 1200 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 101
 

BTW acolytes are on 32mm right?

Looks good, although this might not be the thread for your tournament list.

You’re probably off better asking in the Skaventide thread.

As for the list it really does look good.

I’m not sure if the Screaming bell will be worth the points in a 1200points game, especially when you only got 4meatshields to protect and move it, but considering the rest I think you’re solid.

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1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Looks good, although this might not be the thread for your tournament list.

You’re probably off better asking in the Skaventide thread.

As for the list it really does look good.

I’m not sure if the Screaming bell will be worth the points in a 1200points game, especially when you only got 4meatshields to protect and move it, but considering the rest I think you’re solid.

Oops very sorry! haha thought this was the thread xD

EDIT: Thanks for the input tho!

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Commenting on your suggestions :

  • Clanrats - no can't see any drop. Where they are at and how they compare to other average troops, they are fine. Retreat and charge is a great ability.
  • Stormvermin - very hard one, on paper "yes they should drop", but the hidden gem with these guys is 25mm bases + 2" range. It means so many attacks. I can see a small drop being justified, particularly at low numbers where they are weaker (skaventide bonuses/shields) but at unit size 40, they are just a blender. Perhaps 110/420
  • Clawlord - probably 90pts is justified,  but he does have an ace CA. maybe.
  • Rat Ogors - yes possibly 2 for 80-90pts. But really its the allegiance abilities around them that need a boost.
  • Rat Swarms - yes terrible, even at 50 pts you have to search for any value. these need to be summonable. of all the armies that missed out on benig able to summon something... skaven and rats... hello!
  • Deathmaster - needs a CA or a force multipler or something. isnt doing much on the field. 80pts its still not exciting having him in the roster. Again, the allegiance needs some attention.
  • Night Runners - kind of important in this day and age, having a unit that can advance to screen is quite useful. they dont do much in a fight but its their ability that you get them for, maybe 70-80pts
    SKRYRE - hard one, lots of buffs/synergy, take units from mediocre to insane at times.
  • Doomwheel - is ok at 160pts IMO. possibly 150pts, but no issue with it.
  • Doom flayer - needs a scroll re-write. just never will be taken, does piddly damage, no great way to buff it except MMWP which is wasted on it... or blows up. at 40pts maybe, but a scroll re-write is far better... and something i agree with and have thought myself, unit size 1-3 for this one.
  • warlocks - yes can come down, purely the points they are due their importance with buffing inc MMWP. they are born only to cast this spell. Their lightning is too onerous / hard... 13" and needs LOS... and the overcharge failure penalty should be only if you fail to cast, not unbound as well. they just dont cast anything except MMWP!
  • warp grinder - I'd still pay 80pts. giving any skaven unit deepstrike is big. if it was 60pts, I'd include 2x every game. So, maybe not 60pts
  • Censer bearers - rubbish, scroll re-write. pointless with monks. Never been fielded since the tome was released... by anyone... in the world... the only reason you would take them at points is a cheaper form of chaff... which isnt really what they are meant to be.
  • warpseer - 350pts? ooof, i think he needs consideration at 320pts let alone 350pts. hits like a pool noodle in reality. ok maybe not that bad, but he can hardly be relied upon to kill anything. i think as he is currently 320pts is fine.

Battalions

they just need to be reviewed. Skaven have the worst battalions i can think of out there. But seeing as how they have good variety and good warscrolls and were bringing back shooting with a bang, i can understand not making them exciting at the time, but now its time to review. yes they all need heavy points drops. but really its a whole bunch of unexciting. 

Verminlords

i think their current points are OK, except Skreech maybe 300pts. the Deceiver is a bit soft-hitting for 320pts and Lord of assassins. the others are OK.

Personally id like to see the deceiverhit a touch harder and justify 320-350pts.

warbringer, warpseer is fine.

Corruptor prob needs a bit more hitting power, he is terrible in melee unless he was only intended to taken with the SOJ in which case its a bit OP.

Skreech needs a full re-write, make him scarier, 400pts+ justified lord of all VLs.

in future, hopefully they get a VL spell list to take a spell each and would deserve a 20-30 pts increase if it was decent.

Other Units

Stormfiends - prob skaven's most competitive unit right now. i can see this going up to 280pts. but really this is the swingiest scroll out. the benefit from buffs is insane and its just a waste if you dont buff them and take 6. the inability to choose loadouts for specific melee or shooting etc makes them very hard to balance as written. thus there is only 1 loadout and way to run them. a bit of rules refinement would be good. i doubt they will ever get to choose loadouts again, which is a shame as the tactical variety it would bring would be great

Giant Rats - not really good at their points, pure chaff unit but really skaven dont have rom for much more chaff with the clanrat tax.

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