Tzeentch win Cancon and the GW GT Heat 1

[Sinfullyvannila]

39 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

If the original design was indeed supposed to avoid stacking modifiers on casts...(which is only speculation)

It’s not speculation, it’s specifically stated in the FAQ. 
 

I do speculate though, that the line is BS to deflect from the spectacular nature of the ****** of that rules implemention.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Sinfullyvannila

[Kadeton]

48 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

It’s not speculation, it’s specifically stated in the FAQ.

Haha, my apologies. I should have said "(which is only hearsay)".

[Forrix]

2 hours ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I do speculate though, that the line is BS to deflect from the spectacular nature of the ****** of that rules implemention.

I kinda feel like it was them saying "Hey! We do playtest!" I really fail to see how stacking casting modifiers is really that powerful. Mass Conjuration largely seems worthless to me in its current iteration, by nature it only works on double casters and then you're using either 4 destiny dice or putting in on a LOC who doesn't really need anymore help casting. Maybe against a Nagash list packing that bucket of +3 unbinds but that's about it. Getting a +1 from the LOC command ability on top of DD is strong but really doesn't seem powerful to need a specific exemption. I just don't see the game breaking when a LOC or a GS gets +2 to cast with their DD at the low low cost of a command point every turn  and 4 DD.

RuneBrush does make a good point about hit and wound rolls though. It does allow for Tzeentch to bypass negative hit/wound modifiers and  feels both thematic and powerful. That's the first, in my eyes, well reasoned cause for the unmodifiable destiny dice change.

[Phasteon]

13 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I kinda feel like it was them saying "Hey! We do playtest!" I really fail to see how stacking casting modifiers is really that powerful. Mass Conjuration largely seems worthless to me in its current iteration, by nature it only works on double casters and then you're using either 4 destiny dice or putting in on a LOC who doesn't really need anymore help casting. Maybe against a Nagash list packing that bucket of +3 unbinds but that's about it. Getting a +1 from the LOC command ability on top of DD is strong but really doesn't seem powerful to need a specific exemption. I just don't see the game breaking when a LOC or a GS gets +2 to cast with their DD at the low low cost of a command point every turn  and 4 DD.

RuneBrush does make a good point about hit and wound rolls though. It does allow for Tzeentch to bypass negative hit/wound modifiers and  feels both thematic and powerful. That's the first, in my eyes, well reasoned cause for the unmodifiable destiny dice change.

Maybe they wanted to prevent DD with +1 to make it impossible to unbind when taking 5 and 6. 

Or to make a 2 and a 6 from DD into a 13 via LoCs rules

Sometimes its the little things 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited February 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[gjnoronh]

3 hours ago, Forrix said:

I kinda feel like it was them saying "Hey! We do playtest!" 

Just a reminder in case you or other readers  didn't know some of the playtesters are on this forum including the OP who started this thread topic (and who is also the host of this entire forum.)     No one on this forum can say the folks who playtest don't know what players on this forum think. about rules (not that you were saying that just want to make the general point to all of us. )   

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by gjnoronh

[Forrix]

6 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Maybe they wanted to prevent DD with +1 to make it impossible to unbind when taking 5 and 6. 

Or to make a 2 and a 6 from DD into a 13 via LoCs rules

Sometimes its the little things 🤷🏼‍♂️

Only impossible to unbind if you don't have positive modifiers to unbind or an auto-unbind ability. And a 2 and a 6 is still two out of your nine DD and that 2 could have been a soft inspiring presence.

[Phasteon]

5 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Only impossible to unbind if you don't have positive modifiers to unbind or an auto-unbind ability. And a 2 and a 6 is still two out of your nine DD and that 2 could have been a soft inspiring presence.

And yet its probably unfun if your opponent tells you that your standard wizard cant unbind because he took a 6 and a 2 that suddenly turns into a 13. 

 

I dont know what the designers intentions were but I say preventing this is a good thing for the game imo. 

 

The only thing I have a problem with tbh though is the damage output of flamers and exalted flamers for their points costs. Yes they are fragile but that doesnt matter when they alphastrike your most valuable unit with their absurd amount of (potential) rend multi damage shots. 

Especially compared to Skyfires which have basically the same output but in shittier with higher points costs. 

I would have liked Tzeentch to have less output and more shenannigans (even with those DD tricks that were excluded)

Edited February 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Forrix]

Just now, Phasteon said:

And yet its probably unfun if your opponent tells you that your standard wizard cant unbind because he took a 6 and a 2 that suddenly turns into a 13. 

 

I dont know what the designers intentions were but I say preventing this is a good thing for the game imo. 

Nagash and Arkhan off the top of my head are two casters with a +3 to cast and a +2 to cast. Guess that doesn't apply to them?

Yes, you take a 380 point caster in a magic themed army and spend 2 of your 9 special resources and a command point to cast a spell you were almost certainly going to be able to cast anyways and your opponent's random 100 point something wizard can't unbind it.

[Phasteon]

12 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Nagash and Arkhan off the top of my head are two casters with a +3 to cast and a +2 to cast. Guess that doesn't apply to them?

Yes, you take a 380 point caster in a magic themed army and spend 2 of your 9 special resources and a command point to cast a spell you were almost certainly going to be able to cast anyways and your opponent's random 100 point something wizard can't unbind it.

Nagash and Arkhan still need to roll.

You did not convince me that its comparable.

[Forrix]

9 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

You did not convince me that its comparable.

I give up.

[BillyOcean]

47 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

And yet its probably unfun if your opponent tells you that your standard wizard cant unbind because he took a 6 and a 2 that suddenly turns into a 13. 

The Lord of Change cannot do this, it's in the FAQ. A 6 and a 2 is still 8 for the LoC's cast attempt. If you are willing to use two DD 6's and a command point to get a casting value of 13, I think it would pretty reasonable for it to be unbindable by most wizards.  Even if you don't spend the command point and its a 12, your opponent would be pretty unwise to spend an unbind attempt on that.

So in general, I don't believe there would anything super powerful about allowing all destiny dice to be unmodifiable. But I also don't really care any more - it is what it is and the rules and exceptions are least clear now, so I'm happy.

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

Think we've gone as far as we can on the discussion about why Destiny Dice work as they do now 😉

[Ravinsild]

I don't know much about Tzeentch except he is the lord of change, schemes, magic and fate, but is the Ogroid Thaumaturge any good? It's a super sweet model TBH. I got it in the Silver Tower game. 

[schwabbele]

QQ: Lets say I do 50 damage to 10 pinks in 1 go , do they die all including blues and brims, or would 40 damage just "vanish" . Had a quick chat before with a friend and we weren't sure, I am for all a ded, split and add happens when a pink is slain which happens every 1 wound allocated. So unit grows but dies anyhow.

[Dreadmund]

14 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

QQ: Lets say I do 50 damage to 10 pinks in 1 go , do they die all including blues and brims, or would 40 damage just "vanish" . Had a quick chat before with a friend and we weren't sure, I am for all a ded, split and add happens when a pink is slain which happens every 1 wound allocated. So unit grows but dies anyhow.

The whole unit would die.

 

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I don't know much about Tzeentch except he is the lord of change, schemes, magic and fate, but is the Ogroid Thaumaturge any good? It's a super sweet model TBH. I got it in the Silver Tower game. 

He's got good stats, but he lacks synergy with other units. You can find a good place for him in a mortal focused army though, I think. I don't think I'd take him with Tzeentch Daemons.

[NJohansson]

12 minutes ago, Dreadmund said:

He's got good stats, but he lacks synergy with other units. You can find a good place for him in a mortal focused army though, I think. I don't think I'd take him with Tzeentch Daemons.

He does have great synergy with Kairos so he could have a place in a Guild of Summoners list with Kairos - but probably not the ideal choice anyway.

Edited February 13, 2020 by NJohansson

[Inquisitorsz]

3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I don't know much about Tzeentch except he is the lord of change, schemes, magic and fate, but is the Ogroid Thaumaturge any good? It's a super sweet model TBH. I got it in the Silver Tower game. 

I think he's pretty good, but his problem is relatively high points cost and that he's just overshadowed by a lot of the other heroes.   
His spell is nice, though it's far more useful when Kairos "borrows" it, but still D6 mortal wounds is nice.  
He hit's reasonabily hard in melee which a lot of tzeenth stuff doesn't do. D3 impact hits on the charge is nice too. 
He's an Arcanite, so at least gives Tzaangors thier +1 to wound abililty. 
But other than that, he's a pretty solo guy, doesn't really synergise with anything else. 
The Infusion Archanum spell is pretty good on him though. Makes both his big attacks 2+/2+

his 5+ save is also a bit disappointing. 
 

[Forrix]

18 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I don't know much about Tzeentch except he is the lord of change, schemes, magic and fate, but is the Ogroid Thaumaturge any good? It's a super sweet model TBH. I got it in the Silver Tower game. 

I'm using him in an escalation league I'm in and think he's pretty good in low point games. He's a wizard with a good warscroll spell, hard hitting for his points cost, tanky enough he won't die easy to small stuff, and triggers Tzaangor's +1 wound. Just a good jack of all trades character. That said, I don't see him in any competitive 2K point games. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Forrix