Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Aelfric]

40 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

I would love it for the Sky cutter to return.

Yes, it would be great.  It is a lovely model, not that old, and, I think, stands up well with the new range.  Also. I haven't got one.

[valenswift]

No Army box this week 😪

[GrimDork]

4 minutes ago, valenswift said:

No Army box this week 😪

My wallet breathes a sigh of relief! I have at least another week to sell off some stuff.

[Acid_Nine]

6 hours ago, valenswift said:

No Army box this week 😪

Yesssssss.... one more week for a chance for new stuff!

[LuminethMage]

15 hours ago, madmac said:

Lumineth aren't even particularly hero heavy though. They just barely have any warscrolls period. (4 units, 6 heroes, 3 named characters) You can't call a faction with extremely limited hero options hero-heavy, they're just all around small from what we know so far. The only thing they are heavy on is Special Characters.

3 named characters also don't sound like something special. It's just that the Lumineth are generally a small army if there isn't more. Like you say.

I have the feeling most people would not complain about more heroes or named characters, as long as it's exactly the one they'd like to see. I personally would love to have another fire/light themed wizard hero for example. And I know some would like to have a Loremaster type, and most, including me, definitely a general hero on a steed. 

It's a small range, so many of us, like me, were thinking there is more. Because GW for a long time implied there would be. When they showed us the Mountain sub-culture units they said things  like "just scratched the surface" etc., and it looks like the only thing at that point we hadn't been aware of were the Endless Spells (and the full model of the Scinari Cathaller). 

I'm content, but I like mages and think a wizard hero heavy factions fits well with Teclis. But I hope they still have a small number of models at least a few months down the road. Otherwise we can just hope that the options are not too limiting on builds and play styles. 

[Lucur]

Purely from the models, we have all the bases covered with the core troops, some cav, some shooting and a solid backbone with spears. To add we have some mages, elite infantry and battle cattle. This would lead every army to have to be melee focussed, unless we get more. I can not think of an army that gets its core parts from battleline (except naked dwarfs maybe), the defining features are usually in the elites or heroes. And we don't have a lot of choice there, as of yet. Don't get me wrong, i like what we have so far, i just hope they add a few more units for  varied gameplay options.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

Haha - tell me about Battleline
My Ex-Wanderer Allegiance Army is now ALL Battleline: The Ex-Glade Guard being Freeguild Crossbows, the Wildwood Rangers, the EternalGuard, the Sisters of the Watch, even the Sisters of the Thorn are all labeled Battleline. Listbuilding feels dull at times to be honest. However Cities of Sigmar is an odd special case of a Battletome.
What Armies are defined by Elites and Heroes in your view? To my untrained Eye the Armies in AoS vary so much that one Factions Elite is another factions screening Unit and vice versa.^^ Which is such a nice flavour in AoS
I was honestly expecting for the Vanari Auralan Wardens to cost at least 160! I am itching for some Warscroll reveals 😬

[Aelfric]

In many factions,  the choice of General opens up Elite units for that army as Battleline.  I like this direction that GW has taken.  I don't find it makes listbuilding dull, but adds to the diversity and challenge.  For many armies choice of General makes a big difference in the way your army will function and allowing elites to be battleline helps to create the type of army you wish to field.  Of course, there are some armies like Ironjawz, where all troop units are battleline, but they are in the minority (possibly of one?).  I like this system.

[Incineroar87]

Have we heard about any stat lines of the Alarith Stoneguard yet ? I’ve heard they get a 3+ save and immune to x rend but have 1 wound or something. Believe they are our cheapest unit so far at 100 points?  Are they meant to be the elite unit for the army ?

[woolf]

perhaps the intention of GW is to make the armies small to encourage buying of multiple armies? and actually from that perspective maybe its not a problem that a particular army only has one distinct play style as if you want to play in another way you just get another army  So if you instead take the view point of playing "aelves" and just view Lumineth as a special case of that, just like Idoneth or DoK  you are still good to go. After all most competitive lists don't really see that much variation in units anyways >.< (*cough* morrsarr....)

[valenswift]

17 minutes ago, woolf said:

perhaps the intention of GW is to make the armies small to encourage buying of multiple armies? 

That can't be true. I started collecting again in 2016 and I've only got  Stormcast, Idoneth, Sylvaneth, Kharadron, Daughters of Khaine, Cities of Sigmar, AdMech armies (not to mention a realm of battle game board, lots of terrain Warcry and warbands, BlitzBowl and teams, Underworlds and warbands and Kill Team)

 🤣🤣

[madmac]

1 hour ago, Incineroar87 said:

Have we heard about any stat lines of the Alarith Stoneguard yet ? I’ve heard they get a 3+ save and immune to x rend but have 1 wound or something. Believe they are our cheapest unit so far at 100 points?  Are they meant to be the elite unit for the army ?

They feel like they're meant to be an elite unit, but 100 points for 5 put them in that awkward middle ground of units that are usually too cheap to have really good stats, too expensive to be spammable.

Liberators are 100 points, for example. Saurus Guard are also 100 points for 5, and they are quite mediocre.  Hearthguard are super strong at 120 points and a horde discount, but that's another matter. Most units that are 100/5 are 2 wound models with 3 attacks/1 damage and not particularly good at anything.

The other Battleline units are similarly priced for their respective unit sizes-largely in that middle ground of not elite, not pure chaff. Mind you they could be a fair bit stronger than points values suggest, and that wouldn't surprise me, but none of them are initially pointed as powerful elite type units.

[Reuben Parker]

1 hour ago, madmac said:

They feel like they're meant to be an elite unit, but 100 points for 5 put them in that awkward middle ground of units that are usually too cheap to have really good stats, too expensive to be spammable.

Liberators are 100 points, for example. Saurus Guard are also 100 points for 5, and they are quite mediocre.  Hearthguard are super strong at 120 points and a horde discount, but that's another matter. Most units that are 100/5 are 2 wound models with 3 attacks/1 damage and not particularly good at anything.

The other Battleline units are similarly priced for their respective unit sizes-largely in that middle ground of not elite, not pure chaff. Mind you they could be a fair bit stronger than points values suggest, and that wouldn't surprise me, but none of them are initially pointed as powerful elite type units.

I guess the differentiator would be if they’re still only 1 wound. I know a lot of talk is expecting them to be 2 wounds but I don’t think a leak has ever confirmed that (if it has been confirmed and I’ve missed it please correct me).  

At 20 ppw they can then be very elite but need to see if they will be 1 or 2 wounds.

I think the points leaks put most of the units for the faction  in a grey middle ground seeming to range 12 - 14 ppw. Meaning none of them can have particularly strong attack profiles without being too good. Spearman for instance expected to have reach maybe even 3” I guess a 4+ save and maybe a defensive ability for less than thralls meaning they should really have a fairly weak attack profile to balance. 

[madmac]

If the Stoneguard are 20 ppm with 1 wound they'll almost certainly be bad, though. There were a bunch of units like that in 1st edition AoS and I can't think of any of them that ended up being anything but super-niche.

I'm just not sure how this army is intended to play overall.

From the point costs we have, none of the troops are particularly elite. Some of them might prove highly cost effective with synergies ect but they're all likely to be fielded in high numbers. Generic heroes are...mostly nonexistent but the ones we have look like strictly support types, with only one of them being a Wizard. The only seemingly strong generic hero is the Cow Man.

The special characters are all highly expensive and probably very strong, so it basically looks like a horde army backed with very powerful special characters, which we don't have a lot of in the game. DoK with Morathi are probably a decent comparison point, though the Lumineth units are at least in theory more well-rounded than that. There's also LoN with Nagash, but death armies play so differently than Aelves that it's hard to make a useful comparison.

[Reuben Parker]

46 minutes ago, madmac said:

If the Stoneguard are 20 ppm with 1 wound they'll almost certainly be bad, though. There were a bunch of units like that in 1st edition AoS and I can't think of any of them that ended up being anything but super-niche.

I'm just not sure how this army is intended to play overall.

From the point costs we have, none of the troops are particularly elite. Some of them might prove highly cost effective with synergies ect but they're all likely to be fielded in high numbers. Generic heroes are...mostly nonexistent but the ones we have look like strictly support types, with only one of them being a Wizard. The only seemingly strong generic hero is the Cow Man.

The special characters are all highly expensive and probably very strong, so it basically looks like a horde army backed with very powerful special characters, which we don't have a lot of in the game. DoK with Morathi are probably a decent comparison point, though the Lumineth units are at least in theory more well-rounded than that. There's also LoN with Nagash, but death armies play so differently than Aelves that it's hard to make a useful comparison.

The leaked battle report has slightly over 3/4 points in characters. Maybe it is supposed to be Slinging magic and mighty special heroes as you say although that’s not generally the style of play I enjoy. 
 

I do enjoy behemoths though so hopefully a multiple cow battalion exists and pair it up with a lot of spear men and archers. I did enjoy back in the previous game playing large amounts of spearmen and archers with their special fight in an additional rank rules. I’m going to wait and see what lists I can build. 
 

I really like the models look  and plan to try to push my painting limits a bit with them so whatever comes will be a fun project. 

[Rhetoric]

I wish I could get my hands on that WD bat rep so bad.  Very interested in seeing what the units will be able to and what they are comparable to right now in game.

[Lord Krungharr]

Does anyone think the old White Lion Aelves will be included in the Lumineth Battletome?  They have bull guys, I figured maybe they could have some Lion guys to round out the zoo.  I mean, the Lions really looked good, and I was surprised to not see them in the Cities Battletome.

[LuminethMage]

32 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Does anyone think the old White Lion Aelves will be included in the Lumineth Battletome?  They have bull guys, I figured maybe they could have some Lion guys to round out the zoo.  I mean, the Lions really looked good, and I was surprised to not see them in the Cities Battletome.

I don't think so. The Stoneguard are basically new White Lions. I doubt we'll see any of the old HE models that haven't been included in the CoS anywhere else again. 

[Incineroar87]

With Tecli's auto casting 4 spells a turn, do you think he will be able to cast anymore spells manually or have his old rule of having all lore spells or infinite spell range?   I do like the synergy with the auto casts and the Hysihan Twinstones giving casting modifiers for one big spell at the end though.  With what we know it does seem that Nagash will still be the superior wizard though sadly.  Hopefully there's more to Teclis for that wow factor.

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Incineroar87 said:

With Tecli's auto casting 4 spells a turn, do you think he will be able to cast anymore spells manually or have his old rule of having all lore spells or infinite spell range?   I do like the synergy with the auto casts and the Hysihan Twinstones giving casting modifiers for one big spell at the end though.  With what we know it does seem that Nagash will still be the superior wizard though sadly.  Hopefully there's more to Teclis for that wow factor.

Teclis is accompanied by Celennar, Avatar of the Moon Spirit of Hysh, who, I presume, will have some special powers of their own.  GW have said they are are not rider and mount, but companions.  It would be odd if such a powerful spirit didn't have some good abilities.

[Lord Krungharr]

I think that Celennar might be my favorite new model I can remember, aside from the Mindstealer Pharanx (I'm a cat person).  Such a strange mystic being.

[Aelfric]

13 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I think that Celennar might be my favorite new model I can remember, aside from the Mindstealer Pharanx (I'm a cat person).  Such a strange mystic being.

It does seem to encapsulate a spiritual essence like no other model has so far, doesn't it.

[The_Lost_Deputy]

Hey folks. Been following this thread for a while as I've been frothing on the Lumineth and excited about my first foray in AOS. Decided I'd create an account and join in the anticipation with you lot

Does the owl posted in the rumour engine give anyone any lumineth vibes?

[Sttufe]

1 hour ago, The_Lost_Deputy said:

Hey folks. Been following this thread for a while as I've been frothing on the Lumineth and excited about my first foray in AOS. Decided I'd create an account and join in the anticipation with you lot

Does the owl posted in the rumour engine give anyone any lumineth vibes?

If anything I would have to say idoneth actually, gives me a vaguely aquatic vibe.

[LuminethMage]

Welcome : ) . Hopefully next week is our pre-announcement week with a lot of good stuff to talk about.

I thought the same thing. I guess because of the eyes or something, but it's more likely for Sylvaneth/Kurnothi or something completely different. 

Now if that owl would have sported horns .... .