Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Tiberius501]

Yeah more likely, if they were to add a Phoenix, would be to give Lumineth the Phoenix’s from the Cities of Sigmar book, Rather than all new ones. Like how Ossiarchs got a couple of Legions of Nagash things in their tome. 

[LuminethMage]

4 hours ago, rbstr said:

I really doubt you'll see a Phoenix. Even if there actually are more models (which seems less and less likely), there are two big reasons: (1) It doesn't seem like it would fit the mountain theme at all and (2) There are already phoenixes in another faction - they aren't going to duplicate a unique creature.

Very likely not for this release, but the Lumineth have a lot of runes and symbols with Phoenixes on them, and they are supposed to be all about symbolism.

The Dawnrider flag and some of the heraldic on them is phoenix styled, the Sentinels have the symbol of the Ur-Phoenix on them, as well as Eltharion, who not only has that, but also a phoenix symbol on his chest plate and a phoenix-styled helmet.

The ruler from the box set also shows some phoenix-dragon like statues. If the Lumineth get a phoenix it would likely look a bit different from the Phoenix Temple ones. But those are statues, so who knows in the end. 

   

Edited May 22, 2020 by LuminethMage

[Grudgebearer]

I think it’s safe to say that all new models have been spoiled by now, I don’t think there will be any additional releases

[Rhetoric]

2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Very likely not for this reveal, but the Lumineth have a lot of runes and symbols with Phoenixes on them, and they are supposed to be all about symbolism.

The Dawnrider flag and some of the heraldic on them is phoenix styled, the Sentinels have the symbol of the Ur-Phoenix on them, as well as Eltharion, who not only has that, but also a phoenix symbol on his chest plate and a phoenix-styled helmet.

The ruler from the box set also shows some phoenix-dragon like statues. If the Lumineth get a phoenix it would likely look a bit different from the Phoenix Temple ones. But those are statues, so who knows in the end. 

   

I am doubtful there are models  too, but there’s a part of me that can’t deny that all of the Phoenix iconography means something.  
 

ive never seen that on the ruler before so thank you!

[LuminethMage]

No problem, that’s what months of almost no information does to people, lol. Many of us (including me) thought that the banner and stuff like this means we see a second elemental faction with a phoenix or dragon like monster with this release. Sadly not going to happen this time, but in the future it’s possible. 🔥

Right now I’m just happy that we finally see some progress. Even if it’s still not our turn on the 30th, it shouldn’t be much longer. 

[Incineroar87]

I’m doubtful they will chuck in City Alves as we haven’t seen them anywhere yet unlike where the older Bonereapers where shown at first reveal photos.  Hopefully we get them as Allies at the very least so we can use the godly Phoenix support.

[Tiberius501]

Oh I agree, I don’t think we’re getting anything else and reckon it’ll be a really small army release (though I’m weirdly fine with how it is). 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I agree that with everyone saying we're not going to see new models, but I remain baffled as to the design choices behind it. Not only is Lumineth one of the smaller factions, as has been discussed endlessly, the distribution of warscrolls is really weird. Unless there's some details we haven't seen, there's more hero warscrolls than unit warscrolls, and fully half of the hero warscrolls are unique named heroes (Teclis, Eltharion and Avalenor matched up against Scinari Cathaller, Alarith Stonemage, and the basic Mountain King). There are almost as many named heroes as there are unit choices, especially if the Stoneguard weapon options are part of a single warscroll. Further, we've got at least three mages, compared to a single non-monster melee hero--and even that option ends up being one of the named options.

It feels like it will seriously limit army construction options and playstyles, above and beyond the already present issues with the size of the range. I just don't get the design choices here, especially when combined with the scope of the marketing (which was already in unusual amounts of hype before COVID forced them to stretch things thin). There's a part of my brain that is screaming that there has to be more, even as the rest of it is pointing out that if there were more, we'd have seen hints of it by now.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

49 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I agree that with everyone saying we're not going to see new models, but I remain baffled as to the design choices behind it. Not only is Lumineth one of the smaller factions, as has been discussed endlessly, the distribution of warscrolls is really weird. Unless there's some details we haven't seen, there's more hero warscrolls than unit warscrolls, and fully half of the hero warscrolls are unique named heroes (Teclis, Eltharion and Avalenor matched up against Scinari Cathaller, Alarith Stonemage, and the basic Mountain King). There are almost as many named heroes as there are unit choices, especially if the Stoneguard weapon options are part of a single warscroll. Further, we've got at least three mages, compared to a single non-monster melee hero--and even that option ends up being one of the named options.

It feels like it will seriously limit army construction options and playstyles, above and beyond the already present issues with the size of the range. I just don't get the design choices here, especially when combined with the scope of the marketing (which was already in unusual amounts of hype before COVID forced them to stretch things thin). There's a part of my brain that is screaming that there has to be more, even as the rest of it is pointing out that if there were more, we'd have seen hints of it by now.

Exactly, could not have said it better. 

[Nighthaunt Noob]

2 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

I agree that with everyone saying we're not going to see new models, but I remain baffled as to the design choices behind it. Not only is Lumineth one of the smaller factions, as has been discussed endlessly, the distribution of warscrolls is really weird. Unless there's some details we haven't seen, there's more hero warscrolls than unit warscrolls, and fully half of the hero warscrolls are unique named heroes (Teclis, Eltharion and Avalenor matched up against Scinari Cathaller, Alarith Stonemage, and the basic Mountain King). There are almost as many named heroes as there are unit choices, especially if the Stoneguard weapon options are part of a single warscroll. Further, we've got at least three mages, compared to a single non-monster melee hero--and even that option ends up being one of the named options.

It feels like it will seriously limit army construction options and playstyles, above and beyond the already present issues with the size of the range. I just don't get the design choices here, especially when combined with the scope of the marketing (which was already in unusual amounts of hype before COVID forced them to stretch things thin). There's a part of my brain that is screaming that there has to be more, even as the rest of it is pointing out that if there were more, we'd have seen hints of it by now.

I wonder if the designers could have concluded that the way the unit leaders will function as mini-heroes fills that gap somewhat?

[Acid_Nine]

4 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

I wonder if the designers could have concluded that the way the unit leaders will function as mini-heroes fills that gap somewhat?

I don’t know? If they could take command traits or relics, maybe... but it doesn’t feel like an army with an unnamed fighter hero, mounted or not. Who knows, maybe the stone mage is the one that pulls double duty in that it can fight and cast spells? 

[Incineroar87]

Lumineth's hero ratio seem somewhat familiar with the Ossiarch's where they have 5/9 characters being unique, 6/9 being mages and 1/9 being a non unique non mage hero. That being said they do have 8 non hero units to our 4-5 depending if the diamond pick hammer dude option is something more. Hopefully we have some interesting dual kits to flesh it out more.

[Falkman]

16 hours ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

Not only is Lumineth one of the smaller factions, as has been discussed endlessly, the distribution of warscrolls is really weird. Unless there's some details we haven't seen, there's more hero warscrolls than unit warscrolls

That’s not really too weird though is it? Several factions in the game are really hero-heavy, take Flesh-eater courts (8 heroes, 5 units) or Fyreslayers (10 heroes, 3! Units) for example. 

[ArchaicArc]

I think the weirdness is the fact that you’re almost forced to take a special character, and I’m just getting into Warhammer after a long hiatus, and last I played fantasy battles, you needed special permission to field one of them! I’ve never been a fan of special characters in my rosters because it pressures me to win (how could teclis LOSE???), and so I’ve always preferred to lead my armies with no name, fallible, generals. And I’m a little disappointed that I’ll just have a choice between two mages (one of whom might just be a support unit)...

still I’m loving 90% of the range, and have always loved fielding massed ranks of core troops with few elite choices, so I’m DELIGHTED with the spearman, cavalry and archer models, might do a simple head swap job on the rock page (I’m okaaaaaaaay with the helmet but the face looks a bit derpy but that could just be the paint job) and the few elites I’ll have (stoneguard). I like the battle cattle giants, but I don’t imagine them being in my army.

 

i kind of prefer playing the massed ranks of nobodies because it makes winning or losing more fun (general soldiers defeating the elite enemies/holding out against overwhelming forces). So even if nothing new gets added for a while yet, I’m still pumped to join the AoS train...!

[LuminethMage]

Thematically it fits really well that Teclis faction heroes are mostly wizards. 

Let’s hope it’s not too limiting during game play though. Hopefully the little unit heroes help a bit in that respect. 

[Acid_Nine]

3 hours ago, ArchaicArc said:

I think the weirdness is the fact that you’re almost forced to take a special character, and I’m just getting into Warhammer after a long hiatus, and last I played fantasy battles, you needed special permission to field one of them! I’ve never been a fan of special characters in my rosters because it pressures me to win (how could teclis LOSE???), and so I’ve always preferred to lead my armies with no name, fallible, generals. And I’m a little disappointed that I’ll just have a choice between two mages (one of whom might just be a support unit)...

 

Wow that is a long hiatus! welcome back, and I hope your games are pretty good!

and I agree, That is the biggest hang-up I have with this faction so far. MAYBE they will show more, cause heck we don't even have terrain right now unless you count the mooooving mountains. 

 

Still, I am probably going to just consume everything GW will throw out me, but it would be nice to have a bit more.

[godhand]

Been following the Topic and Lumineth news in general for quite a while now (HE were my first "proxy" Army back then) and while i like what has been released  so far: the Model Range feels somehow incomplete atm, tho the consensus seems to be that we have seen all models by now. Even with the mountain theme in mind i do miss the Dragon/Phoenix style Monster and ballista-style warmachine quite a lot..

Edited May 23, 2020 by godhand

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

15 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Lumineth's hero ratio seem somewhat familiar with the Ossiarch's where they have 5/9 characters being unique, 6/9 being mages and 1/9 being a non unique non mage hero. That being said they do have 8 non hero units to our 4-5 depending if the diamond pick hammer dude option is something more. Hopefully we have some interesting dual kits to flesh it out more.

I think the extra Ossiarch  units make a big difference in the feel of the faction.  I also personally barely count Vomkortian or Zandtos as part of the roster, but I can see your point in counting them.

12 hours ago, Falkman said:

That’s not really too weird though is it? Several factions in the game are really hero-heavy, take Flesh-eater courts (8 heroes, 5 units) or Fyreslayers (10 heroes, 3! Units) for example. 

Flesh Eater Courts don't have the named hero problem, and have excellent variety in what their generic heroes do. Fyreslayers are (IMO, at least), basically the definition of a problem faction--they have precisely one model that isn't a naked dwarf of some variety, and it's a mount for a naked dwarf instead. Their issues go way deeper than warscrolls (and they certainly exist at the warscroll level).

 

Also, I'd like to point out in response to both of these comments that saying there are multiple instances of a problem existing doesn't make the problem less bad. It just makes it wider spread. This is just reinforcing my opinion that GW needs to go back and add more waves to existing factions.

[RonnPhan]

I have a feeling they are just holding back a second release with Tyrion leading a phoenix/dragon sun faction.

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

Deleted post

Edited May 24, 2020 by Yuviel Lightbringer
this was awful, I may try and correct this stream of thought later.

[Tiberius501]

Alright so, tonight is the night we’ll get to know what’s on for pre-order next week I’m pretty sure. I’m going to guess it’ll be the Lumineth Battle Box and/or the Engine War Psychic Awakening book for 40k.

[Thaliontil]

From the looks of it, I think it's going to be Engine War/the Zoat and Aeronautica Imperialis stuff (that is what was previewed in the banner with the announcement of the re-start of the factory). The battle-box will probably hit the shelves by the 13th of June, but it would be fantastic to be wrong!

[madmac]

On 5/23/2020 at 2:36 AM, Falkman said:

That’s not really too weird though is it? Several factions in the game are really hero-heavy, take Flesh-eater courts (8 heroes, 5 units) or Fyreslayers (10 heroes, 3! Units) for example. 

Lumineth aren't even particularly hero heavy though. They just barely have any warscrolls period. (4 units, 6 heroes, 3 named characters) You can't call a faction with extremely limited hero options hero-heavy, they're just all around small from what we know so far. The only thing they are heavy on is Special Characters.

[Aelfric]

We could still see the return of Sky-cutters, Dragon Princes, et al, to flesh out the faction.  They can all fit one of the aspects.

[GrimDork]

22 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

We could still see the return of Sky-cutters, Dragon Princes, et al, to flesh out the faction.  They can all fit one of the aspects.

I would love it for the Sky cutter to return.