Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[adboyslim]

1 hour ago, Yondaime said:

If you set up this model within 6" of an objective that has no enemy units within 6" of it, you gain control of that objective, and your opponent cannot gain control of it while this model is within 6" of it.

Yes but lone agent is about setting up the model at the first round. The part you are extracting is not a new paragraph. It’s in the same paragraph so this is one and only one rule.

 

5 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Have you seen the stormcast range....

You are right but Lumineth is not the new Stormcast. Only Stormcast benefit of such care from GW. This is Stormcast again who will be in new V3. I think they have plenty BG to update before releasing new Lulu wave 😉

[JustAsPlanned]

14 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

If Tyrion gets his own army I will jump on that so hard I will wind up singlehandedly raising GW's stockprice!

We kinda already do in the form of the Vanari, cause they’re of “Tyrionic tradition” and seek to emulate him

[Aelfric]

I agree with @adboyslim regarding the Loreseeker.  The entire paragraph is setting out rules for setting up the Loreseeker as a Lone Agent.  This only occurs at the start of the game before deciding who goes first.  Any set up later in the game would not be as a Lone Agent and therefore the rules would not apply.  You cannot simply take one sentence out of its context and give it its own seperate meaning.

[Yondaime]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

I agree with @adboyslim regarding the Loreseeker.  The entire paragraph is setting out rules for setting up the Loreseeker as a Lone Agent.  This only occurs at the start of the game before deciding who goes first.  Any set up later in the game would not be as a Lone Agent and therefore the rules would not apply.  You cannot simply take one sentence out of its context and give it its own seperate meaning.

No but there is a period, and it’s literally the function of it to separate the sentences, but I agree it’s not clear, I’ll ask game testers 

[martinwolf]

RAW it's pretty clear I think, you can do a teleport setup and benefit from the ability. If they wanted that not to be the case, the sentence should have been something like "If you set up this model as described above, then ..."

But I agree, it definitely needs an FAQ. Surprised it wasn't a part of the recent one.

[GrimDork]

16 minutes ago, martinwolf said:

RAW it's pretty clear I think, you can do a teleport setup and benefit from the ability. If they wanted that not to be the case, the sentence should have been something like "If you set up this model as described above, then ..."

But I agree, it definitely needs an FAQ. Surprised it wasn't a part of the recent one.

Agree with this, RAW it's totally legal. RAI is a different matter. Can see it argued both ways. Needs an FAQ for definitive answer.

[Sivyre]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:29 PM, LuminethMage said:

There have been around 7 larger tournament wins by Lumineth players, none of them with Ymetrica I think. Syar does well. In all the statistics I see it’s in the borderline OP category (high 50s). All of our other nations don’t perform well, that’s what’s dragging down our overall win rate. We don’t have enough data with the new units and nations of course, and everything will change in two month anyway. 

Even your list might overall perform better in Syar than in Ymetrica (better artifact, more juice for everyone vs. partial better protection in a niche case (lots of -2 rend)). Think about it, almost nothing that you state above is due to/needs Ymetrica, except in cases you face someone with a lot of -2 rend. Whereas you mention the usefulness of quartz twice yourself. Ymetrica is sadly just not that well designed, because the abilities only apply to a small group of Warscrolls and the best bonus you get is only helpful in niche cases. Almost half the units in your list don’t profit from being in Ymetrica. Where’s double Aetherquartz ... . 

But it’s great that you have list that does well for you with the playstyle you like. It looks more interesting than another version of Teclis + Auralan battalion for sure. 

All the rest I agree. Again it’s was just a question about what’s competitive, and any of the statistics I have seen, Ymetrica was at the bottom (either upper 30s or lower 40s) of our four nation choices (with Iliatha not counting because almost no one seems to have played it in tournaments so far). It’s not about dissuading people from playing what they want. I play a weird, mostly mages lists myself. 

The issue to take this particular list into the great nation syar would require 2 units of wardens in order to fulfill the battlelines requirement which would overall alter the list dramatically....

[Aelfric]

It probably will need an FAQ.  What we have at the moment is a difference of interpretation of the English language structure they used and that can only really be resolved by FAQ from on high.

[Tizianolol]

We need another FAQ when we got our FAQ last week .. sad 😅

[LuminethMage]

8 hours ago, Sivyre said:

The issue to take this particular list into the great nation syar would require 2 units of wardens in order to fulfill the battlelines requirement which would overall alter the list dramatically....

One unit. He has Bladelords in there. It's not a dramatic change in my view. 

[martinwolf]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:05 AM, Yondaime said:

+stoneguard are a wall of briks (potentially 3+ rerolled ignoring rend, means they will not die) and actually HIT like a ton of briks (+1 (3) attack with cp, -2 rend, 2 damage on 6), remember, they are one of the few that has -2 rend

I stopped playing the Alarith Battalion and almost never use the Stonemage stance ability because not being able to pile in with the Stoneguard and only having 1" reach made it very difficult for me. It only really works well if you make a big charge. And the slow 4" move doesn't help with getting into the right position. Do you have similar problems? Me Stoneguard really lack in output because I almost never have the -2 rend. But maybe I just need more practice. To be fair I've mostly played only 5man units.

[Yondaime]

28 minutes ago, martinwolf said:

I stopped playing the Alarith Battalion and almost never use the Stonemage stance ability because not being able to pile in with the Stoneguard and only having 1" reach made it very difficult for me. It only really works well if you make a big charge. And the slow 4" move doesn't help with getting into the right position. Do you have similar problems? Me Stoneguard really lack in output because I almost never have the -2 rend. But maybe I just need more practice. To be fair I've mostly played only 5man units.

Yes its really hard to be in the right position, most of the times i try to have the charge so i can position myself properly, a good trick is to deply the stoneguard as a "wall" and not in ranks, it works most of the times for me, also remember you have tecnonic force (and a unit can use it 2 times in ymetrica), and its perfect to control the flow of battle, i find most people forget about it

 

@LuminethMage Yes and no, in syar you dont have the 2 times TF, also i found the ignore -2 rend far more consistent, remember you have to spend Cp every time you use the extra quartz, if you find a army with a lot of -2 rend (like FS with the plus -1 rend rune) you will be dry on cp and your stoneguard will get obliterated

 

At the end i find people play a lot better and with more motivation a less ultra competitive list that fits theyr playstyle instead the net list that did good in tournaments 

[adboyslim]

About Lone agent rule I really can't believe what I read  I need to review all the warscrolls to see if I can extract a sentence out of his context and use it as separate rule

 Anyway : any help please for a fight agains KO! I think I have no chance but if you have some advice please shout.

Do I go first or second?

Do I use shining company to give him -1 or try to do some long corded unit to protect my heroes?

Did you try Loreseeker with geminid to give him -1 or is it just 160pts away on T1?

Is Alumnia to take objectives early is a good option (and run+charge)? Or simply syar to try surviving on T1/T2?

Thanks!

[Sivyre]

8 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

One unit. He has Bladelords in there. It's not a dramatic change in my view. 

I must be missing something because as far as I understand, bladelords are not battleline... and tinkering in army builder also indicated that they are not, albeit army builder isn’t always reliable. 
 

 

[Acid_Nine]

13 minutes ago, Sivyre said:

I must be missing something because as far as I understand, bladelords are not battleline... and tinkering in army builder also indicated that they are not, albeit army builder isn’t always reliable. 
 

 

They are battle line if you have one Scinari unit

[Sivyre]

13 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

They are battle line if you have one Scinari unit

Ah thanks for clearing that up

[Yondaime]

56 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

They are battle line if you have one Scinari unit

even vanari if i am not mistaken

1 hour ago, adboyslim said:

About Lone agent rule I really can't believe what I read  I need to review all the warscrolls to see if I can extract a sentence out of his context and use it as separate rule

 Anyway : any help please for a fight agains KO! I think I have no chance but if you have some advice please shout.

Do I go first or second?

Do I use shining company to give him -1 or try to do some long corded unit to protect my heroes?

Did you try Loreseeker with geminid to give him -1 or is it just 160pts away on T1?

Is Alumnia to take objectives early is a good option (and run+charge)? Or simply syar to try surviving on T1/T2?

Thanks!

i play vs KO a lot, heres my tips

-For the love of god let him go first if you can, a semi decent KO opponent will do serius damage if he wins priority and gets double turn

-be wary of vortex, VERY wary, its one if not THE reason KO are so strong atm, if you have teclis its a HUGE help

-ALWAYS keep shining company on, KO have either low range (the one you have to be scared of, the carabines, 12'' 8A 2 dmg, or 18" 4d6 1 dmg) or 24/30, so keep your heroes behind your troops and near a unit to get the -1 and you should be fine, bladelords help a lot here

-deploy like an onion (sorry its the only term that comes to mind xD) outer ring put wardens, inner ring put sentinels/heroes, dony live any 9" hole inside 

-syar is the way, even tho if you post the list i can give more detallied help

-loreseaker will most likely get gunned down turn 1, you can try to out smart him with the positioning but remember that KO can be positioned literally anywhere as long its 9" away

Ko its a really thought enemy, you have to be very precise and leave no room for errors, does he play competitive list or casual? 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Yondaime

[adboyslim]

Thank you very much @Yondaime
We are still testing AOS and our new armies so he'll go more casual. I know he like having a lot of ships with max people inside (I think it is maybe normal KO deployment).

I don't have Teclis so I'll have to find other way to protect my Lulu. We are going to play with 1500pts.

Thank you very much for your advices. I'll try to work on a list and let you know.

Edited May 17, 2021 by adboyslim

[Sivyre]

I put together a list (below) and would like to hear what your thoughts are.

I am not sure sure if the calligrave and vortex will prove useful but the idea here is allowing the model to cast protection of hysh and erasure. Alternatively those could be removed and a unit of 10 sentinels could be added bringing the total to 30 as we all know LRL strength is within those sentinels.

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica

Leaders
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
Sevireth, Lord of the Seventh Wind (300)
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- Artefact: Silver Wand  
- Lore of Hysh: Total Eclipse
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Almighty Blow  
- Artefact: Mountain's Gift  
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Scinari Calligrave (100)
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh

Battleline
15 x Alarith Stoneguard (300)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets

Units
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh

Battalions
Alarith Temple (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Hyshian Twinstones (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

[Maogrim]

I'm sure more experienced players will have a clearer view, but to this looks a little top-heavy, meaning too many points in the Leader section while there are only 40 very slowly moving wounds to capture and hold objectives.

[Sivyre]

33 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

I'm sure more experienced players will have a clearer view, but to this looks a little top-heavy, meaning too many points in the Leader section while there are only 40 very slowly moving wounds to capture and hold objectives.

Yeah but in hind sight this is no different then teclis and his maybe 40 wardens in terms of wounds and battlelines for playing objectives,

I do agree that the list is heavy in the leadership though I think it has more staying power then teclis does as cow king and fox will likely do more or equal work for the same point cost. Though only theoretically, because teclis’ biggest contribution is his 18” 5+ FNP. Not to say teclis isn’t good but all in all it’s the above spell we value the most.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sivyre
Spelling errors

[whispersofblood]

 

4 hours ago, Sivyre said:

I put together a list (below) and would like to hear what your thoughts are.

I am not sure sure if the calligrave and vortex will prove useful but the idea here is allowing the model to cast protection of hysh and erasure. Alternatively those could be removed and a unit of 10 sentinels could be added bringing the total to 30 as we all know LRL strength is within those sentinels.

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica

Leaders
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
Sevireth, Lord of the Seventh Wind (300)
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- Artefact: Silver Wand  
- Lore of Hysh: Total Eclipse
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- General
- Command Trait: Almighty Blow  
- Artefact: Mountain's Gift  
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Scinari Calligrave (100)
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh

Battleline
15 x Alarith Stoneguard (300)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets

Units
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh

Battalions
Alarith Temple (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Hyshian Twinstones (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

I think Severath and the Spirits of the Wind are traps. I want them to be good, but ultimately they have all the rules to make a unit with good stats good, but are missing the good stats to do damage. 

The damage in LRL is just too low to by relying on these 200+ point single models to get the work done.  Realistically you have 26 models to take objectives with assuming you can get there, and assuming you can fight your way through the bodies the opponent puts in the way.

20 Sentinels is still only like 6/7 dmg without rerolls, with Sevireth and Avenalor that's like 11-13 damage at range. 

[Sivyre]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

 

I think Severath and the Spirits of the Wind are traps. I want them to be good, but ultimately they have all the rules to make a unit with good stats good, but are missing the good stats to do damage. 

The damage in LRL is just too low to by relying on these 200+ point single models to get the work done.  Realistically you have 26 models to take objectives with assuming you can get there, and assuming you can fight your way through the bodies the opponent puts in the way.

20 Sentinels is still only like 6/7 dmg without rerolls, with Sevireth and Avenalor that's like 11-13 damage at range. 

Well many have not seen severith or the lesser fox played yet (my self included).

way I see it is the model essentially demands a response from your opponent otherwise the thing will just keep skirmishing and whittle your opponent down through attrition. The utility of that decision your opponent needs to make may keep your board safer for a turn or 2. If your opponent doesn’t have an immediate response it could be quite overwhelming for them.

I do feel your concern if it’s value isn’t quite up to par, to which removing severith for additional battleline would be quite easy.

[adboyslim]

11 hours ago, Sivyre said:

Well many have not seen severith or the lesser fox played yet (my self included).

I only used Sevireth once and I was really happy about what he did. Indeed he don't have a huge damage output on it's own. But during the whole game he totally blocked 2 units of 3 Kurnots (killed some), killed an arch-revenant and destroyed a wyldwood. But indeed he will not take objectives very well. 

[adboyslim]

Has anyone played enough game with shrine to discuss about it? I used it 3 times and I don't know what to think about it.

I'm not sure it worth to keep a guardian. Ok, re-rolling 1 for sentinels is valuable but it was almost the only impact my guardian had on the game because he was too far from action.

On some scenario we can set it at 6' from set-up zone (still in our territory) so in that case the hero will be quite close to fights, but I think it is very hard to protect him then.

I think next time I'll just put one hero inside T1 to benefit of free CA on sentinels, and large re-roll for cast on T2 and will move him out of garrisoning on T2. What do you think?