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HollowHills

Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

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I like all the rules and cant see why the army should be OP. All the buffs and abilities come with restrictions or costs.

I'm only jealous that Eltharion is stronger then my Storm Eidolon.

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54 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I'd wait a bit, if you play with friends and don't have to optimize to the greatest extend, you can have all those Champion-Wizards do other spells instead of Power of Hysh. There won't be a total way around the MW, but it might not be that bad for your opponent. 

Exactly this. Please relax and give it some time. It is the people we spend quality time with together, playing our beloved miniatures game, who matter. When I played against the new Bonesplitterz or the new Seraphon I was definetly not prepared to get mauled by flying boars or to be smashed by Meteors - it wasn't unfun however. I am sure that in 4-5 Months time the Lumineth wont be regarded as the most unfun faction ever. ☺️

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This is not going to be a good competitive list but my good will it be fun.

Using Ymetrica for Stonewardens as battleline.

Teclis - 660

3x5 Stonewardens - 300

3 x Spirit of the mountains - 1040

 

2000 Points on the dot and will look awesome on the table!

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5 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

If there's a way to make Stoneguard core, a full on Ymetica army will be really fun.

They are battleline if you play Ymetrica.

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Does this make them the first Order army that can't take Stormcast as allies?

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I posted in the rumour thread, but we can probably go a bit more in depth here.

The faction is horrible against Eternal conflag. People forget that flamers have 27" reach without teleportation, Burning chariots have 32". If they really want to get at Teclis they can shoot him off, even if it may require tweaks to the most common build.

I'm very concerned about mobility and ability to get onto objectives, I don't think soul scream bridge is a solution as we don't seem to have any charge bonuses, not even basic rerolls.

LRL look like the suffer a bit from the IDK problem that the battleplan is obvious, without the IDK strength of extreme movement freedom. I think competitive builds are going to include morrsarr over Dawnriders for the use of the cav hammer, and Dawnriders as harassers and skirmishers. Which is a bit disappointing. 
 

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I'm a little disappointed that the Dawnriders aren't automatically (or at least hero specifically) battleline and instead require  an equal number of Wardens to count. I was hoping to be able to build an all cav force. Not the end of the world, just foils my plans.

Not sure how I feel about them being best against horde infantry either. I have nothing against it - and quite love the idea of cavalry smashing through a blob of gribblies - but the fact that they aren't as good against elite enemies is a little disheartening. Then again, with their base attacks, mortal wounds, charge bonus, and self buffing sell, maybe they're a lot more versatile than I give them credit for.  That 14" move is pretty sweet.

I keep finding myself lamenting their lack of unit variety, and then remembering how much fun my Ironjawz are. I think folks are right and GW will later be expanding our forces with a Tyrion half which will likely flesh out the currently sparse hero/unit selection, possibly giving me a cav hero to make make those Dawnriders battleline.

Nitpicking aside, I like what I've seen. The faction looks pretty tough in general, and the various options all look pretty comparable on paper. Their speed is actually pretty much what I was expecting, and the weapon profiles aren't as elite as I feared. The limited rend actually surprised me, though it makes sense with the effectively faction wide Mortal Wound potential. The maximum unit sizes surprised me, but in a good way. Archers limited to 20 and Stoneguard limited to 15 are a nice way of preventing them from getting too out of hand, and a nice break from standard GW unit size conventions. The fact that none of them get a horde discount is also appreciated - because they really don't need it and this means GW is starting to actively take the weapon-range to base-size ratio seriously, which could bode well for earlier factions where this doesn't appear to have been taken into account. 

56 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Does this make them the first Order army that can't take Stormcast as allies?

Good catch, I didn't even think of that! An interesting development that has some fun implications for the continued strain/fracturing going on within the Order GA.

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Yeah, I’m really interested (and hope we get it) in the lore reason behind that. They dropped a few hints, but it’s interesting that Idoneth can be allied but no other Order faction. If we are lucky we might even get a bit progress of Idoneth out of the Lumineth BT. 

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1 minute ago, OkayestDM said:

keep finding myself lamenting their lack of unit variety,

Weirdly I think they functionally have OK variety in units compared to most factions just because of how radically different they are - you have a specialist defensive infantry, a fast shock cav unit that excels against hordes, a more offensive heavy infantry, and archers.

Most factions have quite a bit of repetition leading to units that are 'x but better' or 'like x but worse'. I must admit I'm quite disappointed at the lack of a generic warrior hero, though, or a bolt thrower. 

 

5 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Good catch, I didn't even think of that! An interesting development that has some fun implications for the continued strain/fracturing going on within the Order GA.

Here's hoping it's not a typo - I quite like the idea of not being able to just ally in Stormcast to fill weaknesses. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

I posted in the rumour thread, but we can probably go a bit more in depth here.

The faction is horrible against Eternal conflag. People forget that flamers have 27" reach without teleportation, Burning chariots have 32". If they really want to get at Teclis they can shoot him off, even if it may require tweaks to the most common build.

I'm very concerned about mobility and ability to get onto objectives, I don't think soul scream bridge is a solution as we don't seem to have any charge bonuses, not even basic rerolls.

LRL look like the suffer a bit from the IDK problem that the battleplan is obvious, without the IDK strength of extreme movement freedom. I think competitive builds are going to include morrsarr over Dawnriders for the use of the cav hammer, and Dawnriders as harassers and skirmishers. Which is a bit disappointing. 
 

who need teclis is just a ****** want to kill is first creation ( profile be sexy but not worth at all and not requied to play the armies i think)

dawnrider is not bad at all with the good spell they can move 28" before make charge an be devastating vs mortek for exemple

imagine 10 dawnrider charge 40 mortek just the lance make 15 death on 3+RR save for 260 pts 22 with power of hysh 28 with power of hysh and aetherquatz on average roll

Edited by hiaze

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16 minutes ago, hiaze said:

who need teclis is just a ****** want to kill is first creation ( profile be sexy but not worth at all and not requied to play the armies i think)

dawnrider is not bad at all with the good spell they can move 28" before make charge an be devastating vs mortek for exemple

imagine 10 dawnrider charge 40 mortek just the lance make 15 death on 3+RR save for 260 pts 22 with power of hysh 28 with power of hysh and aetherquatz on average roll

If the ossiarch unit is supported by a harvester they may kill something like 10 to 15 tops and then they will die while Mortek Guard will heal.. I don't see Dawn Riders as a solution against Mortek Guard.. Stone Guard in the appropriate nation+batallion will fare most likely better as they can be tough enough to survive.. Again with the heal of Ossiarch we may still lose the grindfest..

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2 hours ago, MrZakalwe said:

Does this make them the first Order army that can't take Stormcast as allies?

What about the reverse? Can Stormcast take LRL as allies? (since they can ally with "all ORDER" factions)

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4 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

If the ossiarch unit is supported by a harvester they may kill something like 10 to 15 tops and then they will die while Mortek Guard will heal.. I don't see Dawn Riders as a solution against Mortek Guard.. Stone Guard in the appropriate nation+batallion will fare most likely better as they can be tough enough to survive.. Again with the heal of Ossiarch we may still lose the grindfest..

if mortek hekatos is slain by bury of stonemage, mortek can RR save,  any problem as awnser,  theorycraft is pulsating

in aos for good armies need 3 thing imo:

1/ good bataillon lumineth have

2/ good batteline stoneguard are pretty solid i think

3/ flexibility 

i don't thing lumineth is the number one ofBT but he can reach good spot an tournament

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2 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

What about the reverse? Can Stormcast take LRL as allies? (since they can ally with "all ORDER" factions)

The way it is now yes, Stormcast can get Lumineth as allies.

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Am I reading this correctly?  Only two heroes able to take Artefacts??

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2 minutes ago, Rhetoric said:

Am I reading this correctly?  Only two heroes able to take Artefacts??

genric cow is not a hero, only stone and watermage can take artefacts yes

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13 minutes ago, hiaze said:

if mortek hekatos is slain by bury of stonemage, mortek can RR save,  any problem as awnser,  theorycraft is pulsating

in aos for good armies need 3 thing imo:

1/ good bataillon lumineth have

2/ good batteline stoneguard are pretty solid i think

3/ flexibility 

i don't thing lumineth is the number one ofBT but he can reach good spot an tournament

And the stonemage may get killed by the catapult of the Ossiarchs.. 😛 

To be clear though I'm not negative and I believe that the army will be mid-high tier and will be very viable. 

Theory-hammer is the lifeblood of warhammer forum talks.. 🙂 

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Posted (edited)

Is it just me or are sentinels pretty bonkers? A 20 man unit does an average 7 MW with their spell on, 8 with RR1s from the battalion, 11 if they get full rerolls to hit (and reroll anything not a MW). Plus the negligible bit of actual hits. At 30" without LoS. I can't see myself leave home without 20. Or 40.

Edited by Lucur
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15 minutes ago, Rhetoric said:

Am I reading this correctly?  Only two heroes able to take Artefacts??

Yes. It's a weird book where artifacts and command traits will barely matter because all the strong heroes are special characters.

Not to say the Stonemage and Veil lady aren't useful/important characters, but they're too squishy and limited to heavily base your artifact/CT strategies around most of the time.

In practice I see a lot of Stone Mage generals being the norm.

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As someone who runs 70 Fireglaives in their Legion army I can confirm that it has the potential to delete things. The fact that this army can do that out to 30" as opposed to 16" and on 5s is huge. 

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7 minutes ago, madmac said:

Yes. It's a weird book where artifacts and command traits will barely matter because all the strong heroes are special characters.

Not to say the Stonemage and Veil lady aren't useful/important characters, but they're too squishy and limited to heavily base your artifact/CT strategies around most of the time.

In practice I see a lot of Stone Mage generals being the norm.

I could see Cathallars babysitting large blobs of Wardens for battleshock, but other than that, yeah, the chice in heroes is sub par. Some kind of Captain style model is really missing, i don't always want to break out Eltharion to get a handy melee infantry character :(

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19 minutes ago, Lucur said:

Is it just me or are sentinels pretty bonkers? A 20 man unit does an average 7 MW with their spell on, 8 with RR1s from the battalion, 11 if they get full rerolls to hit (and reroll anything not a MW). Plus the negligible bit of actual hits. At 30" without LoS. I can't see myself leave home without 20. Or 40.

I was thinking this last night after reading someone a few pages back saying non of the core seemed broken if spammed. Mass archer for sure will be a problem for a lot of armies. It also to some degree solves the movement issue in the army by giving the army such a strong ranged threat. 

They’re kind of another nail in the teclics coffin as well. Teclis + endless spell around 700 points or 50 archers. 50 archers seems way more threatening at range to me whilst being a big blob of wounds / screening / objectives.   

My old high elf army was mass archer and spearmen with a few cav / chariots and minimal heroes. Thinking my Lumineth will be the same which is going to be nice and fun :)  

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Am I understanding the translarion of the Cathaller ability correctly? It can bounce BS tests WITH modifiers? So an archer unit gets charged and loses 16 models and bam, +16 bs test for an enemy unit in range (even worse with the mountain bravery spell)? And wouldn't that work to one-shot character and monsters that usually are safe from BS? Seems nuts.

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