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HollowHills

Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

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So i’ve Been almost obsessing about this all day (which feels great after no games due to quarantine) and this book is really pushing you towards MSU for the wardens, with each squad being a wizard and the two units striking at once, but with the limit of needing 5 models in a unit to cast spells, I kinda want to have 20 guys in a squad for protection and board control. Kinda hard to decide without playing.

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Though it's not an army I would run, i definitely see Stoneguard spam in Ymetrica with the Alarith Temple battalion being the most competitive choice by far. They just get too many stacking bonuses.

Having played OBR for months (and I love the army) I don't see Lumineth being as obviously powerful, but their mortal wound output and the impact teclis has on the board is certainly unique

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after read all leak ,i think the big weakness of lumineth is the weakness to heroes sniping (regardless of artifact and command traits we have not discover) , heroes is really key in this armies (lot of bubble) and u can't cover them like u make with volturnos in idoneth for exemple.

however normaly u should have magic advantage ( not a lot of armies can have more sorcerer than lumineth armies) to take control batlle advantange

move of armies are average not bad at all but no great, but look how much move spell you have:

1/Speed of Hysh: Casts on 5 Double the movement of a friendly unit within 18" of the caster.

2/Paralyzing Dizziness: Casts on 6. Pick an an enemy unit within 18" of the caster. Until your next hero phase, roll 2d6 each time the unit tries to make a normal move, pile in, or charge (?) move. If the roll is higher than the unit's bravery, it cannot make that move.

3/Darkness of the Soul: Casts on 7. Pick 1 enemy within 18" and visible to the caster, roll 2d6 each time that unit attempts a normal move, charge, or pile-in. If the result is higher than that unit's Bravery, that unit can't complete that action.

4/-Gravitational Diversion: Casts on 5. Caster can fly until next hero phase. 1 enemy unit within 18" takes 1 MW, can't fly, and has halved movement until next hero phase. 

 

have minimal of drop and try to play 1st to cancel move to enemies with lot of wizzard seems the key to take control of game, and try to have resilience to keep the game in your hand with lot of support spell.

 i don't think warden is the anvil of this BT, they have 3 in range (can easy stay behind unit and hit) and they are more squishy than another entrance and don't forget u can't make cord with warden or you loose your"shinning compagny" for all game

 

it's how i first see this BT overall

 

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8 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Indeed. Both Kharadron and Tzeench (especially if he is on the same base as Alarielle) can and will take the first turn with 1-2 drops deployment and kill him on the first turn with us not being able to do anything about it. I will reserve judgement, but tournament-wise he is a very bad and fragile investment.

(And thank god because I really don't like the model.. 😛

I fail to see that happening. Both Tzeentch and KO are devastating at 18”. They deep strike 9” away. Unless you’ve done literally no screening whatsoever then it’s not happening, hell Tzeentch only get one teleport now. 

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1 hour ago, hiaze said:

have minimal of drop and try to play 1st to cancel move to enemies with lot of wizzard seems the key to take control of game, and try to have resilience to keep the game in your hand with lot of support spell.

That‘s so much fun for your opponent especially if you use cheese-lord Teclis with his auto 10+ casts, +1/2 to unbinds for his army (+1 due to subfaction) and the honestly low point-price Tags the army has.

 

srsly what is going on? Since the OBR the rule-design for this game is getting worse. They added so many rules that utterly shatter the fun of the person who is playing against you. I honestly don‘t want to play against Lumineth, there‘s too much cheese going on. Controlling the enemies movement in a game that is about movement is bonkers.

If this is the way for AoS to be now then I am more than willing to leave AoS behind.

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Posted (edited)

 

8 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Indeed. Both Kharadron and Tzeench (especially if he is on the same base as Alarielle) can and will take the first turn with 1-2 drops deployment and kill him on the first turn with us not being able to do anything about it. I will reserve judgement, but tournament-wise he is a very bad and fragile investment.

(And thank god because I really don't like the model.. 😛

u can make 2 drops with teclis too, just need to see if is viable 😃

 

1 drop

-teclis:660 pts

2 drop bataillon

-one cow 340pts

-stone mage 130

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X5 100pts

Edited by hiaze
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I actually have to say that I’m pretty confident facing Lumineth as a KO player, being able to snipe all the characters out and delete Teclis easily turn 1 should be no problem at all even with screening, remember KO can move after they teleported with one of their ships if we take Barak Zilfin Skyport ☺️

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25 minutes ago, Grudgebearer said:

I actually have to say that I’m pretty confident facing Lumineth as a KO player, being able to snipe all the characters out and delete Teclis easily turn 1 should be no problem at all even with screening, remember KO can move after they teleported with one of their ships if we take Barak Zilfin Skyport ☺️

But you're not onedropping.

Thunderers in an Ironclad are in a batallion without heroes, and Arkanauts won't cut it.

If I read it correctly, the Lumineth player can have his own units be affected by a big endless spell and have half of the units within 18" deal d3 mw to the ironclad. In addition, of course, to mw firing archerfire that doesn't need line of sight, mw shooting from Eltharion and magic. All the while, your CP's are worth half.

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teclis have 5+ ward spell + 5+ ward spell in lore lume, but i think this not enought to survive againstalpha strike armys. or ironjaws 30+ move in first turn all in our deploy on first turn.

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I don’t know why but I’m disappointed with the rules :/ 

I think every unit doing mortals and spells, a bunch of these spells being debuffs, just seems so unenjoyable for my friends to play against. I don’t know if lazy is the right word to describe them, but just giving every unit mortal wounds feels kind of like a cop out. No other way to make a new army fun and powerful other than to just chuck on a MW’s ability? 

I dunno... love the models, really not liking the rules atm. 

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1 hour ago, Jackroks981 said:

I fail to see that happening. Both Tzeentch and KO are devastating at 18”. They deep strike 9” away. Unless you’ve done literally no screening whatsoever then it’s not happening, hell Tzeentch only get one teleport now. 

The base of Alarielle is over 6 inches. Flamers shoot at 18 inches so 9 inches deep behind your deployed screen. So if you deploy with a 12 inchew deep deployment zone or even a 15 inches deployment zone (for the scenarios were you deploy 9 inches away from your opponent) you can't hide Teclis and he will be shot first dead in the first turn. Have also in mind that most of the powerful weapons of Kharadron have 24 inches range so it is even worse with them..

Your only chance is for the deployment zones of the scenario to be either diagonal or corridor wise in order to deploy him aay from first turn alphastrike. And I don't think I want to have chnaces for auto-lose games..

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1 hour ago, hiaze said:

 

u can make 2 drops with teclis too, just need to see if is viable 😃

 

1 drop

-teclis:660 pts

2 drop bataillon

-one cow 340pts

-stone mage 130

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X5 100pts

You are correct, but I don't see our 2 drop lists be viable in terms of unit choices.. We'll see of course as we practise with the army.. 🙂

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21 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I don’t know why but I’m disappointed with the rules :/ 

I think every unit doing mortals and spells, a bunch of these spells being debuffs, just seems so unenjoyable for my friends to play against. I don’t know if lazy is the right word to describe them, but just giving every unit mortal wounds feels kind of like a cop out. No other way to make a new army fun and powerful other than to just chuck on a MW’s ability? 

I dunno... love the models, really not liking the rules atm. 

I'd wait a bit, if you play with friends and don't have to optimize to the greatest extend, you can have all those Champion-Wizards do other spells instead of Power of Hysh. There won't be a total way around the MW, but it might not be that bad for your opponent. 

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I like all the rules and cant see why the army should be OP. All the buffs and abilities come with restrictions or costs.

I'm only jealous that Eltharion is stronger then my Storm Eidolon.

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54 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I'd wait a bit, if you play with friends and don't have to optimize to the greatest extend, you can have all those Champion-Wizards do other spells instead of Power of Hysh. There won't be a total way around the MW, but it might not be that bad for your opponent. 

Exactly this. Please relax and give it some time. It is the people we spend quality time with together, playing our beloved miniatures game, who matter. When I played against the new Bonesplitterz or the new Seraphon I was definetly not prepared to get mauled by flying boars or to be smashed by Meteors - it wasn't unfun however. I am sure that in 4-5 Months time the Lumineth wont be regarded as the most unfun faction ever. ☺️

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This is not going to be a good competitive list but my good will it be fun.

Using Ymetrica for Stonewardens as battleline.

Teclis - 660

3x5 Stonewardens - 300

3 x Spirit of the mountains - 1040

 

2000 Points on the dot and will look awesome on the table!

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5 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

If there's a way to make Stoneguard core, a full on Ymetica army will be really fun.

They are battleline if you play Ymetrica.

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Does this make them the first Order army that can't take Stormcast as allies?

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I posted in the rumour thread, but we can probably go a bit more in depth here.

The faction is horrible against Eternal conflag. People forget that flamers have 27" reach without teleportation, Burning chariots have 32". If they really want to get at Teclis they can shoot him off, even if it may require tweaks to the most common build.

I'm very concerned about mobility and ability to get onto objectives, I don't think soul scream bridge is a solution as we don't seem to have any charge bonuses, not even basic rerolls.

LRL look like the suffer a bit from the IDK problem that the battleplan is obvious, without the IDK strength of extreme movement freedom. I think competitive builds are going to include morrsarr over Dawnriders for the use of the cav hammer, and Dawnriders as harassers and skirmishers. Which is a bit disappointing. 
 

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I'm a little disappointed that the Dawnriders aren't automatically (or at least hero specifically) battleline and instead require  an equal number of Wardens to count. I was hoping to be able to build an all cav force. Not the end of the world, just foils my plans.

Not sure how I feel about them being best against horde infantry either. I have nothing against it - and quite love the idea of cavalry smashing through a blob of gribblies - but the fact that they aren't as good against elite enemies is a little disheartening. Then again, with their base attacks, mortal wounds, charge bonus, and self buffing sell, maybe they're a lot more versatile than I give them credit for.  That 14" move is pretty sweet.

I keep finding myself lamenting their lack of unit variety, and then remembering how much fun my Ironjawz are. I think folks are right and GW will later be expanding our forces with a Tyrion half which will likely flesh out the currently sparse hero/unit selection, possibly giving me a cav hero to make make those Dawnriders battleline.

Nitpicking aside, I like what I've seen. The faction looks pretty tough in general, and the various options all look pretty comparable on paper. Their speed is actually pretty much what I was expecting, and the weapon profiles aren't as elite as I feared. The limited rend actually surprised me, though it makes sense with the effectively faction wide Mortal Wound potential. The maximum unit sizes surprised me, but in a good way. Archers limited to 20 and Stoneguard limited to 15 are a nice way of preventing them from getting too out of hand, and a nice break from standard GW unit size conventions. The fact that none of them get a horde discount is also appreciated - because they really don't need it and this means GW is starting to actively take the weapon-range to base-size ratio seriously, which could bode well for earlier factions where this doesn't appear to have been taken into account. 

56 minutes ago, MrZakalwe said:

Does this make them the first Order army that can't take Stormcast as allies?

Good catch, I didn't even think of that! An interesting development that has some fun implications for the continued strain/fracturing going on within the Order GA.

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Yeah, I’m really interested (and hope we get it) in the lore reason behind that. They dropped a few hints, but it’s interesting that Idoneth can be allied but no other Order faction. If we are lucky we might even get a bit progress of Idoneth out of the Lumineth BT. 

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1 minute ago, OkayestDM said:

keep finding myself lamenting their lack of unit variety,

Weirdly I think they functionally have OK variety in units compared to most factions just because of how radically different they are - you have a specialist defensive infantry, a fast shock cav unit that excels against hordes, a more offensive heavy infantry, and archers.

Most factions have quite a bit of repetition leading to units that are 'x but better' or 'like x but worse'. I must admit I'm quite disappointed at the lack of a generic warrior hero, though, or a bolt thrower. 

 

5 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

Good catch, I didn't even think of that! An interesting development that has some fun implications for the continued strain/fracturing going on within the Order GA.

Here's hoping it's not a typo - I quite like the idea of not being able to just ally in Stormcast to fill weaknesses. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

I posted in the rumour thread, but we can probably go a bit more in depth here.

The faction is horrible against Eternal conflag. People forget that flamers have 27" reach without teleportation, Burning chariots have 32". If they really want to get at Teclis they can shoot him off, even if it may require tweaks to the most common build.

I'm very concerned about mobility and ability to get onto objectives, I don't think soul scream bridge is a solution as we don't seem to have any charge bonuses, not even basic rerolls.

LRL look like the suffer a bit from the IDK problem that the battleplan is obvious, without the IDK strength of extreme movement freedom. I think competitive builds are going to include morrsarr over Dawnriders for the use of the cav hammer, and Dawnriders as harassers and skirmishers. Which is a bit disappointing. 
 

who need teclis is just a ****** want to kill is first creation ( profile be sexy but not worth at all and not requied to play the armies i think)

dawnrider is not bad at all with the good spell they can move 28" before make charge an be devastating vs mortek for exemple

imagine 10 dawnrider charge 40 mortek just the lance make 15 death on 3+RR save for 260 pts 22 with power of hysh 28 with power of hysh and aetherquatz on average roll

Edited by hiaze

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