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HollowHills

Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

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59 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

By the looks of it, Lumineth have nothing outrageously powerful at first glance, which is a good sign, but still a very strong potential. I was expecting Teclis to be better in combat and tougher.

Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

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2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

You miss the part where he is 1/3rd of your army, only has a 4+ AS and 16 wounds, and his abilities go down with wounds. 

 

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2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

He's a god, of course he's "ridiculous" 🙄

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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

Yes, he's extremely powerful, but I don't think it's egregious from a balance standpoint. He hasn't even been played yet; on paper he looks incredible, but I'm not passing a proper judgement at a first glance.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, LordAlpharius said:

He's a god, of course he's "ridiculous" 🙄

Then point him as such.

1710 would be good.

So nobody has to deal with gods in regular games.

Edit: That something is a god has nothing to do with game design. 

Edited by zilberfrid
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3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Have you read the same Teclis warscroll? He's absolutely ridiculous.

4 autospells at cv10, 1 autodispell in addition, 1 autounbind, +1 cast/dispell, unbind, 4+ unaffected by endless spells or enemy spell and deal d3 mw to enemy in what starts at 16", spells+ 5+ ward save in 18", d3 mw for every enemy unit in 18" on 2-4, d6 on 5-6.

Not to mention making the enemy pay more CP, all units dispelling, mortal wound output (5-6 to hit for spears, archers and cav gives mw with the spell) and staying power.

Moving battleshock to enemies is also unfun.

So if you use CP, magic or are affected by mortal wounds, you're not going to have a good time.

Khorne or Fyreslayers seem about the only bets.

There’s a lot of Alpha striking lists that could take him down In one turn. As a KO player I can see something like 10 thunderers in an ironclad being an absolute nightmare for someone fielding Teclis, as that’s a lot of points gathered on one place. He’ll make Nagash and Tzeentch armies sad though.

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Just now, Azamar said:

There’s a lot of Alpha striking lists that could take him down In one turn. As a KO player I can see something like 10 thunderers in an ironclad being an absolute nightmare for someone fielding Teclis, as that’s a lot of points gathered on one place. He’ll make Nagash and Tzeentch armies sad though.

He does bring his own ward save, don't forget.

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1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

He does bring his own ward save, don't forget.

Is that a spell?

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Indeed. Both Kharadron and Tzeench (especially if he is on the same base as Alarielle) can and will take the first turn with 1-2 drops deployment and kill him on the first turn with us not being able to do anything about it. I will reserve judgement, but tournament-wise he is a very bad and fragile investment.

(And thank god because I really don't like the model.. 😛

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Just now, Dankboss said:

Is that a spell?

 

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

He does bring his own ward save, don't forget.


yes, and can be auto cast. But its only a 5+ FnP. That is not game breaking 

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3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

He does bring his own ward save, don't forget.

Both with Kharadron and Tzeentch you won't get to play first in order to cast the spell..

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

 


yes, and can be auto cast. But its only a 5+ FnP. That is not game breaking 

Then vs KO and Tzeentch he was dead before they even deployed him XD

Edited by Dankboss
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1 minute ago, Dankboss said:

Then vs KO and Tzeentch he was dead before they even deployed him XD

And VS many armys they can shoot off half his wounds before turn 1. Tbh I am not sure I will even use him as he seems to much of a reliability. Will have to see what the full book holds 

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25 minutes ago, Azamar said:

There’s a lot of Alpha striking lists that could take him down In one turn. As a KO player I can see something like 10 thunderers in an ironclad being an absolute nightmare for someone fielding Teclis, as that’s a lot of points gathered on one place. He’ll make Nagash and Tzeentch armies sad though.

I think whoever fields teclis would have to bubble wrap like crazy in situations like that to avoid that very thing. Not always the best, but I think it could be doable. 

 

I need to think on everything though, as this is a lot of info to go through...

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I"m super happy with what I have seen so far. I got my Magic focused Great Nation, Zaitrec, with exactly the lore and rules I'd like to see. The abilities etc., seem to be interesting. And it's totally ok if they aren't the Lumineth turn out to be not the strongest faction, or that Teclis is situational. For all the rest - so much to go through there, this will take a while. 

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u don't need to take warden to take dawnrider or sentinels if u take your battleline with cowboy'z (stoneguard ymetrica) right ?

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This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

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1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

Yeah, they're an unusual army in a lot of ways. MW heavy, which is always annoying for opponents, but most of the units are soft hitters otherwise, with low base attacks, low rend, low damage, 4+ wound rolls pretty much across the board for battleline units.

The Cav is specialized to be extremely lethal charging against weak infantry and extremely meh against anything else. They can be tanky if they're able to stack up faction bonuses and hero synergies, but are pretty squishy if caught out of formation, and bravery is actually quite low without things like the Cathcaller backing them up. Lots of units are otherwise Bravery 5 after using Aetherquartz, that's not great.

In practice I think they will end up being a fairly tactical army, it doesn't look like any of the basic units are spam to win,  units are mostly slow except for your specialized Cav and the heroes are expensive. Granted, I haven't seen the warscroll for the Hammerers yet.

 

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2 minutes ago, madmac said:

Granted, I haven't seen the warscroll for the Hammerers yet.

Hammerers only have a 4" move. They are even slower. 

I think the lack of speed will be what balances this army. So im not too worried about them being OP at the moment. 

 

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Wouldn’t you just spam Wardens? With the 5+ mortal wound spell, a unit of 20 for 240pts is dishing out 13 MW’s.

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1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

It seems to be heavily about 6+'s to hit, and I agree it may suck to fight against. they pretty much do a lot of tricks the gloomspite gitz have, which is a bit ironic considering that these guys are highborn warriors.

Anyways, been coming up with some lists now that we have more info. We don't know enough for spells on everyone, but I think this seems to be pretty good. 

 

Spoiler

List 1, try everything? Iliatha: 

Stone Mage-130- general
Cathallar-140

Battle Line:

Wardens x20: 240
Wardens x10: 120
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140

Other:
Dawnriders x5: 130
Dawnriders x5: 130

Spirit of the mountain: 340

Stoneguard x10: 200

Endless spells:
Rune of Petrification: 70
Twin Stones: 30

Total: 1950pts
--------

List 2, Eltharion in Iliatha

HQs: 
Eltharion: 220pts
Cathaller: 130pts
Avalorn: 360pts

Battleline:
Wardens x20: 240pts
Wardens x20: 240pts
Wardens x10: 120pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts

Battalion: 
Auralan-Legion: 120pts

Endless spells: 
Twin Stones: 30pts
Geminids: 60pts

Total: 1940pts

_______________________

List 3 Iliatha with batallion: 

Stone Mage-130- general
Cathallar-140
Mountain Spirit: 340

Battle Line:

Wardens x20: 260
Wardens x20: 260
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140

Dawnriders: 130pts
Dawnriders: 130pts

Stoneguard x10: 200pts


Battalion: Auralan-Legion- 120
Endless spell: twinstones


Total: 1980pts
 

 

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Posted (edited)

i think taake avalorn rather the generic cow is a must have, generic cow as not keyword hero(held in german)  for have the save RR on your sentinel u need a hero, stonemage really squishy

Edited by hiaze

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The army is definitely a beta strike / defensive army. Set up on the right points properly and annoy the enemy with archers to force them to attack and then use the two activations at a time to get the edge in combat before slowly grinding forward to other points to win.

Im thinking some deep strike eels are a good way to add to that strategy.. that is if you can afford the points.. this definitely feels like an army where you want a lot of things but can’t have them all.

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1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

Wouldn’t you just spam Wardens? With the 5+ mortal wound spell, a unit of 20 for 240pts is dishing out 13 MW’s.

If they actually engage them, sure, but the Wardens are also slow, not super-tough (4+ save, 1 wound, lowish bravery, ect) and reliant on staying still for bonuses. They can be very dangerous to engage, but they're not exactly Petrifex Mortek Guard with a 3+ re-rollable save, immune to battleshock and able to replace models, they can very much be killed.

At minimum I think the archers are pretty much necessary for force-projection and the Riders are really useful for their speed and hitting power, although they can only really perform vs infantry. I'm not sure about the hammer bros, I feel like there's an alternate build out there when going full mountain to use them as a somewhat more offensive replacement for Wardens, but in general they seem to fill a similar role.

 

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Posted (edited)

 

24 minutes ago, madmac said:

If they actually engage them, sure, but the Wardens are also slow, not super-tough (4+ save, 1 wound, lowish bravery, ect) and reliant on staying still for bonuses. They can be very dangerous to engage, but they're not exactly Petrifex Mortek Guard with a 3+ re-rollable save, immune to battleshock and able to replace models, they can very much be killed.

 

warden can't be compare to petrifex mortek to survivability but stoneguard can

4+ RR save (with right city) able to have immune battleshock for free CP with Command hability

able to negate rend-2 

and be 3+ RR save and -1 to hit with one endeless spell (lumineth have lot of wizard unit)

for 10pts/wonds

 

warden cost 12pts /wonds have save 4 -1to hit with shinnig company and it's all

Edited by hiaze

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