Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[kozokus]

Saturday : Interview with rulewriters "THERE WILL BE NO AMBIGUITY IN THE RULES FROM NOW" sweet!

Today, they release a FAQ and then "Q: Can the caster of the Sanctum of Amyntok move while the
endless spell is on the battlefield?
A: Yes."

We knew that from the begining, genius, the point is "can you move the ****** sanctum with its caster?"......

You had one job....

[Koradrel of Chrace]

@chosen_of_khaine Well, he is the angriest Wind Elementari after all.

[chosen_of_khaine]

2 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Saturday : Interview with rulewriters "THERE WILL BE NO AMBIGUITY IN THE RULES FROM NOW" sweet!

Today, they release a FAQ and then "Q: Can the caster of the Sanctum of Amyntok move while the
endless spell is on the battlefield?
A: Yes."

We knew that from the begining, genius, the point is "can you move the ****** sanctum with its caster?"......

You had one job....

I didn't realize this was a question. They're treated as one model, so of course they can move together, right?

[kozokus]

RAW it is clearly written that non-predatory endless spells models cannot move under any circumstances.
This faq doesn't counter that fact.

i do agree with the intent. i perfectly understand what they wanted to say, but they write the exact countrary..../facpalm

[Saodexan]

1 hour ago, kozokus said:

RAW it is clearly written that non-predatory endless spells models cannot move under any circumstances.
This faq doesn't counter that fact.

i do agree with the intent. i perfectly understand what they wanted to say, but they write the exact countrary..../facpalm

RAW also clearly said endless spell model cannot be targeted by a attack. Do that means the caster can't be targeted since they are now the same model ? Use this logic. 😅

Since they are the same models you can't move the caster without the endless spell, the faq seem pretty clear to me. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Saodexan

[Jaskier]

So Hurakan units in the battalion and Spirits of the Wind work as I thought they did based off the rules-as-written, which is funny because I was sure they would get FAQ'd the other way - or at least Spirit of the Wind, anyway. If battalions stick around in matched play in 3.0, I'm definitely doing an all Hurakan army just to see all the crazy tricks I can pull off with all the moving in the enemy turn. As a frequent abuser of them in DoK and Slaanesh, Lumineth are certainly the new kings of 6" pile-ins! 

[JustAsPlanned]

We can use Sevireth with any subfaction now

[Tizianolol]

Guys what changed about sephireth -2 pile in rules. It looks = to pre faq rule

[dmorley21]

I’m actually surprised the Loreseeker can’t take a command trait or artefact. 

[Scorch]

Twins literally changed their nationality.

[Scorch]

12 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

I’m actually surprised the Loreseeker can’t take a command trait or artefact. 

He is too good with command traits and artifacts. 

[Scorch]

Give Loreseeker Blade of Leaping Gold and he will wipe out Tomato Town.

GW made him to strong to be generic.

[Scorch]

Double post

Edited May 10, 2021 by Scorch

[Koradrel of Chrace]

@Scorch The Twins were always from Iliatha in their background.  I'm glad that they changed the rules to reflect this, and took the Ymetrica keyword from Sevireth.

I'd rather not have all of our special characters name locked to one Great Nation, especially when that particular nation only really helps Alarith models.

[LuminethMage]

 

On 5/10/2021 at 11:07 PM, Yondaime said:

Now hold on, i play ymtrica often vs the most competitive armies used by really strong players, ymtrica is not bad, you just have to know what to do and have a LOT of knowledge about list building and what other armies do.

it even hard counters some armies

i am not saying that is SS tier but you can bring it to a tournament and score a lot of wins

 

There hasn’t been a single larger tournament won by anyone playing Ymetrica as far as I know. Not even top 3 afaik. The last time I saw numbers, Ymetrica was the worst of our factions (Iliatha didn’t have enough players to have meaningful results). Here is an example of what I mean https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/faction_page/Lumineth Realmlords 

You can bring almost any army to a tournament under the conditions you write above (be better than many of your opponents) and win games. Probably you can bring a Ymetrica army to larger tournaments and score a lot of wins - statistically that hasn't happened so far. Looking at the above statistics - if you know what your are doing you can expect to win 2 and lose 3. That means your aren’t playing at the competitive tables. If you are very good and/or lucky you can do better of course. Faction choice is luckily not the only thing that matters in this game. That’d be horrible. 

You could show your build and explain how you win against top armies with it, might be helpful for Maori. 

Locally of course you can play Ymetrica, it just hasn’t been our competitive option so far. With the new edition coming, that might change.

I personally would always chose the army and faction I like over what’s “most competitive”. It’s only about giving people a realistic view of what they can expect, using the data we have.  

[Stoickes]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:24 AM, Mesi said:

Just played a Tournament with the following list.

Syar

Teclis
Cathallar 
Lord Regent - General
Severith
Wardens x20
Wardens x10
Sentinels x20
Shrine Luminor
Spell Portal
Sanctum

Took 2nd overall and lost the finals match by a single wound on Knife to the Heart. Quite literally. Won all other games very solidly. And only lost the final because everything went wrong for me that game. Opponent was making 11+ dispels vs Teclis with no bonuses, Total Eclipse never went off which hurt a lot. Failed Ethereal blessing 3 times. With rerolls. Etc.

My Thoughts:

Teclis with Wind Discipline shores up so many weaknesses we had before. The teleport is absolutely clutch. It's really hard for me personally to build lists without Teclis because his access to all three spell lores just makes him the ultimate toolbox. I actually used the heal spell multiple times. A few times on Severith and a few times on the Regent. 

Severith is insane. His damage output is solid, the mobility is crazy. He just does whatever he wants and unless they have shooting he's untouchable. I charged him in frequently at the corner of an enemy unit to pin them down. And bounced out in their turn. I'm assuming his movement in the enemy shooting phase will be fixed. But even then he will be incredibly difficult to shift without some form of solid shooting. But if his movement like that is intended, he's definitely a unit many armies will need to tech to deal with. 

The shrine is quite frankly awesome. I mostly just garrisoned my Cathallar in there and kept my army within range of her ability in the shrine. Then moved out when needed. Maybe I'm blind, but normally Scenery has deployment rules, we couldn't find them. The warscroll lists nothing. So the TO just ruled as long as I place it in my territory and 3" from other terrain and the same distance from enemy territory as the battleplan states it would be fine. Regardless the 24" spell reroll is nice, and up to 10 free command points is honestly pretty awesome.

Lord Regent with the Sanctum is solid. He tanked an entire KO armies shooting and lived to tell the tale. (-3 to hit, Look out Sir, His native -1, and Sanctum for the additional -1 and +1 save. Giving a 2+ save or 1+ in cover) Add mystic shield and have fun! He just performed well in every game and his mobility lets you put Goading Arrogance where you need it. The utility from Greater Hysh spell is awesome. His damage output wasn't all that but as a support unit and distraction piece he's great. Might try him not as the general so I can give him a different relic. Syar is nice as it lets you use an Aetherquartz if you need it and still benefit from his ability. 

Sentinels are sentinels and the Guided Arrow spell is awesome on them. 

Wardens are as ever a core unit. 

Spell Portal with Teclis is an auto include for competitive play. 

But I want to try a Helon list with 30 Roo Riders and two wind spirt. Might be fun, probably not ultra competitive but it would be a good time with all the movement shenanigan's. 

 

Like your list a lot! Could you add in some more detail about the spell selection, artifacts and some basic go to tactics you run commonly? Especially any you'd think to use against other shooting armies? appreciated the detail you did give about the KO battle

[Koradrel of Chrace]

Yeesh, the number of people taking Teclis is unreal, and that was before he got his new spell lore to play with.  If anything, he might be even more if an auto-include in a tournament list because he is just too much of a toolbox now to not have.

I'm glad to see Eltharion getting some love though.  He is just too awesome of a model to not see use!

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

Yeesh, the number of people taking Teclis is unreal, and that was before he got his new spell lore to play with.  If anything, he might be even more if an auto-include in a tournament list because he is just too much of a toolbox now to not have.

I'm glad to see Eltharion getting some love though.  He is just too awesome of a model to not see use!

Yeah, I'm a Teclis fan, but it's sad to see that (almost) all of our competitive lists have to include him. I personally prefer playing without god level characters like Teclis. Hopefully people will find successful lists without him. It's just really hard to come close to the kind of toolbox and reliability he brings. I love the new spell lore, but because we don't have 2 cast Wizards besides the Twins, it's hard to emulate what Teclis can do. You can hardly build lists with 2 Stonemages, 3 Windmages and 3 Scinari. And even if you could, you still wouldn't have the protection against MW and spells that Teclis offers. Protection of Hysh being so much worse than Protection of Teclis is a problem with all the MW flying around, and that being almost our only option to guard against those. Not easy to cast, smaller base and half the radius. 

And in raw power, none of the new units is better than what we had already, so it's no wonder that nothing much has changed. Still, if you just play locally, our options now are great, so there 's that a least : ). Maybe AoS3 reshuffles the cards. I'm sure some people will find success with the Hurakan, but that's also a very specific play style. 

 

[Koradrel of Chrace]

This is why we need Tyrion.  He'd sort his brother out!

[adboyslim]

On 5/10/2021 at 8:37 PM, Tizianolol said:

Guys what changed about sephireth -2 pile in rules. It looks = to pre faq rule

The rule as it is now is less confusing. I don’t have my BT now but approximatively before it was « -2 if you are in the 3 inches » (which was very confusing if you was not at the beginning of the phase and you enter in the 3, literally meaning you should change from 3 to 1 in the same phase 😀). And now it’s « when you start the pile-in in the 3 inches ». 
This is more explicit like that

[Yondaime]

13 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

 

There hasn’t been a single larger tournament won by anyone playing Ymetrica as far as I know. Not even top 3 afaik. The last time I saw numbers, Ymetrica was the worst of our factions (Iliatha didn’t have enough players to have meaningful results). Here is an example of what I mean https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/faction_page/Lumineth Realmlords 

You can bring almost any army to a tournament under the conditions you write above (be better than many of your opponents) and win games. Probably you can bring a Ymetrica army to larger tournaments and score a lot of wins - statistically that hasn't happened so far. Looking at the above statistics - if you know what your are doing you can expect to win 2 and lose 3. That means your aren’t playing at the competitive tables. If you are very good and/or lucky you can do better of course. Faction choice is luckily not the only thing that matters in this game. That’d be horrible. 

You could show your build and explain how you win against top armies with it, might be helpful for Maori. 

Locally of course you can play Ymetrica, it just hasn’t been our competitive option so far. With the new edition coming, that might change.

I personally would always chose the army and faction I like over what’s “most competitive”. It’s only about giving people a realistic view of what they can expect, using the data we have.  

i agree with some of the points but:

-as we already discussed, i never saw a ymetrica list that wasnt teclis+stoneguard (with 0 sentinels, the main reason we are so strong)

-tbh lumineth are not doing so well, if i recall correctly, and correct me if i am mistaken, only 1 lumineth won a tournament since theyr release, and no major tournament won in the recent months. Ko/tzeech/seraphon are too much 

honestly, i never liked the teclis+sentinel, and i get why is scoring so well, and if you want to be top competitive, maybe its the easiest choice, but i find it lacks balance and fun

 

Sure ill' be happy to share

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica

Leaders
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- Artefact: Mountain's Gift
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- Artefact: Silver Wand
- Lore of Hysh: Lambent Light

Battleline
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Vanari Bladelords (120)

Units
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh

Battalions
Alarith Temple (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

I am still working on it since i am trying a lot all the new units, but lets say this is the most solid one.

You have to be REALLY carefull with the positiong, no seriusly, one mistake and most likely you will lose all you buff ad its game over

here some pros/cons, so you get the idea

+stoneguard are a wall of briks (potentially 3+ rerolled ignoring rend, means they will not die) and actually HIT like a ton of briks (+1 (3) attack with cp, -2 rend, 2 damage on 6), remember, they are one of the few that has -2 rend

+Avalenor its an absolute beast, and the -1 to hit (-2 to sentinels) its a big deal, also, near a a stonemage he ignores the wound table

+stonemage+cathallar is a really strong combo, voice of the mountain+cathallr spell can ruin someone day, remember you can give quartz to an enemy model for a total -3 bravery, it means that a heartguard zerker on a 6+ ****** his pants and dosnt do anything

+Sentinel snipe (tbh its the main reason lumineth can perform well)

Cons

-Weak to MW (but tbf all lumineth are, unless you pay 660 for teclis, and if you second you dont have it)

-Slow, and thats the reason sentinels have SoH, use the quartz for the extra cast so you dont lose the 5+ MW, but you have to use it at the right moment or you'll waste the quartz and lose damage the next time you want to cast it

-Positioning, keeeping the stoneguard wholly 12 from avalenor or stonemage is not that hard, but you also have to watch the cathallar, keep avalenor 12 from the stonemage for the wound table, with some training youll get used to it tho

 

 

Again dont exept to go 5/0 in a tournament (but again, even with the most tryhard list is hard), but it can be a lot of fun, and can even surprise some time

Edited May 12, 2021 by Yondaime

[adboyslim]

30 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

Sure ill' be happy to share

Did you test adding the windmage in such list? I really think it is super strong with stoneguards for the TP spell.

33 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

keeeping the stoneguard wholly 12 from avalenor

Please note that Avalenor ability is not an aura of protection but a malus given to ennemies. So this is opponent model that must be within 12". It doesn't work against shooting or if your stoneguards are at the edge of the bubble

[Yondaime]

11 minutes ago, adboyslim said:

Did you test adding the windmage in such list? I really think it is super strong with stoneguards for the TP spell.

Please note that Avalenor ability is not an aura of protection but a malus given to ennemies. So this is opponent model that must be within 12". It doesn't work against shooting or if your stoneguards are at the edge of the bubble

i was talking about the save reroll from the battalion, you have to be wholly 12 from the stonemage or avalenor 

Actually yes, i tested the windmage, instead of the bladelords, i gave him the d3 cure, it gives mobility but in the end it dosnt d much, i think you have to put the fox to use him at his max

note that the spell is casted on a 8,  its not super easy, also, if you tp the stoneguard, most likely they will be far away from heroes, and is a big nono

Edited May 12, 2021 by Yondaime

[Maogrim]

11 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

 

There hasn’t been a single larger tournament won by anyone playing Ymetrica as far as I know. Not even top 3 afaik. The last time I saw numbers, Ymetrica was the worst of our factions (Iliatha didn’t have enough players to have meaningful results). Here is an example of what I mean https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/faction_page/Lumineth Realmlords 

You can bring almost any army to a tournament under the conditions you write above (be better than many of your opponents) and win games. Probably you can bring a Ymetrica army to larger tournaments and score a lot of wins - statistically that hasn't happened so far. Looking at the above statistics - if you know what your are doing you can expect to win 2 and lose 3. That means your aren’t playing at the competitive tables. If you are very good and/or lucky you can do better of course. Faction choice is luckily not the only thing that matters in this game. That’d be horrible. 

You could show your build and explain how you win against top armies with it, might be helpful for Maori. 

Locally of course you can play Ymetrica, it just hasn’t been our competitive option so far. With the new edition coming, that might change.

I personally would always chose the army and faction I like over what’s “most competitive”. It’s only about giving people a realistic view of what they can expect, using the data we have.  

I guess "Maori" would be me?! 😅

[Ragest]

Tried some things since faqs.

Rip loreseeker, is not worth 160 points anymore. Sevireth is in the top of our units and the twins were good, now better.

The redeploy resetting shinning is just too good to ignore it.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ragest