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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


HollowHills

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I'd say it's probably intentional as a thematic rule. They deploy to battle as a glittering host, they hold formation against the initial onslaught then break ranks to attack and pursue the battered foe. At that point in all the chaos and fighting, returning to formation probably wouldn't be feasible or preferable. That's just my guess as to how they envisioned the rule. 

Overall, those rules are VERY strong, especially when you remember one of the army rules is fighting with two units when it's your turn to pick one. It's hard to comment on just how strong the army is yet, but I'd say they've done a great job of creating an army that matches the visual of an incredibly disciplined and skilled battle line. 

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I like the Shining Company rule.  I think it is the last little bit that has pushed me to start an Lumineth army.  I was already doing that kind of thing with my Chaos Warriors at the start of my games as I do like the look of rank and file formations even if I don't technically have to place them that way.  Heck, I oftened formed square around static objectives (mostly to protect my hero character a bit).  Even a staggered row of two keeps them within in two of each other as I far as I can tell.  With a 3" reach a fighting column might be needed sometimes, but I think a standard phalanx will hold up pretty well for holding ground from opposing Battleline infantry.

For me, the more traditional battle formations/units, hammer elves, largely based around earth/mountain elements and the idea I can have an army diametrically opposed to my current one (Darkness vs. Light) is enough of for me to start another army.  I even like the idea of the battle cattle and saying bad cow-related puns to annoy my opponent a bit.

I am just coming off painting a 200+ Death Guard commission army.  I was kinda hoping to get caught up with my current projects or at least slow the amount of painting I am doing some, but 9th 40k already kinda ruined that anyways... So why not pour gasoline on the fire?  I am sure I will find the time to paint these guys at some point.

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Regarding the Shining Company rule in my opinion its main use is as a protection against alphastrikes, especially the shooty ones..

You deploy in shining company formation and get some form of protection against armies that can hurt you first turn.

Also it can help if you face speedy close combat armies who will get the charge on you first..

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Don't get me wrong, I think it is a really cool rule. A great nod to classic rank and file. It is also interesting that the archers are gonna benefit from the rule too (makes the least thematic sense of all the Vanari but I guess they are claiming this is due to some blinding light instead of a shield wall effect).  They might be the real winners here since they're the least likely to need to run or charge.

Edited by Nighthaunt Noob
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Guys I figured it out..

they mentioned ally’s in the article today.. our mounted melee hero is the anointed flamspyre and frostheart phoenix from CoS. I’d also bet we can take Phoenix guard, anointed on foot, shadow warriors and maybe the assassin? The keywords are a bit all over the place, it’s possible we only get Phoenix temple units, but I would love some shadow warriors to go along with my army so I’m saying they are in! 😂

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All of them are wizards? That sounds amazing. I might just reconsider starting a Lumineth army after all... Personally, I also love the Shining Company rule. It's very thematic and it seems like a fun thing to play around - even if it isn't too strong, I like armies that offer interesting gameplay. Also, how would you guys paint Ghyran Lumineth? A pristine White with green accents? A light green, as if glowing with life energy? Would an all-natural, druidic stone grey theme work?

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I could be wrong, but I read the shining company rule to mean as long as each model in the unit are touching 2 bases minimum in the unit it is a shining company. Even after you move the first turn. I think it just means that any time you break rank and file formation, you lose the shining company buff, but it lasts as long as you move and reform into essentially rank and file again. 

Example: I deploy my unit of 10 spears in 2 rows of 5. They'll all be touching 2 bases. Once I move, if I stay in the formation they are all still touching 2 bases and remain a shining company. However, if I surround a big monster unit with 10 spearman and a couple die and the ring of spearman doesnt reach all they way around, making the guys on each end only come in contact with one guy next to them, the buff is lost. Or if the surrounding "ring" of spearman doesn't reach all the way around to begin with it would be lost as well. 

This would make that 3" range a massive deal, because you wouldn't have to go for a full surround or spread your models in any given unit too thin to get attacks off. 

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I still feel like it is a lot of work for that buff, but we’ll see how it works in play.  Pulling models from one edge or another is going to be the safe bet I think, and pray that we take even numbers of casualties.

 

i think that rather than rank and file, we have a ‘honeycombed’ approach that would be the best deployment to guarantee that there is as few gaps as possible. In the standard rank and file, you can have moments where you can have guys stranded without a buddy, whereas a honeycombed approach would help reduce that (I think)

 

also, I think we would have to be careful how we use the push ability, as a savvy opponent could use it to their advantage. It never says the enemy has to move directly away, and it doesnt day the back rank of the opponent can’t get closer while staying outside of 1 inch... I admit I may be paranoid, but I imagine some situations where it could happen.

Edited by Acid_Nine
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It seems like you need to have them in 2 ranks to gain the benefit as, in order to have each model within base to base of 2 other models at a time, you need even the guy o the end to have 2 dudes within base to base of him. Is this correct?

Edited by Tiberius501
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1 hour ago, Acid_Nine said:

I still feel like it is a lot of work for that buff, but we’ll see how it works in play.  Pulling models from one edge or another is going to be the safe bet I think, and pray that we take even numbers of casualties.

 

i think that rather than rank and file, we have a ‘honeycombed’ approach that would be the best deployment to guarantee that there is as few gaps as possible. In the standard rank and file, you can have moments where you can have guys stranded without a buddy, whereas a honeycombed approach would help reduce that (I think)

 

also, I think we would have to be careful how we use the push ability, as a savvy opponent could use it to their advantage. It never says the enemy has to move directly away, and it doesnt day the back rank of the opponent can’t get closer while staying outside of 1 inch... I admit I may be paranoid, but I imagine some situations where it could happen.

Yeah when I read that rule it does seem to imply that it does the exact opposite of what they are saying, and it only helps the opponent basically achieve an additional 2” pile in :/

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3 hours ago, Sleepers said:

Guys I figured it out..

they mentioned ally’s in the article today.. our mounted melee hero is the anointed flamspyre and frostheart phoenix from CoS. I’d also bet we can take Phoenix guard, anointed on foot, shadow warriors and maybe the assassin? The keywords are a bit all over the place, it’s possible we only get Phoenix temple units, but I would love some shadow warriors to go along with my army so I’m saying they are in! 😂

Well, DoK and IDK can allie, as can COS take DOK and IDK.

So I well image them being able to allie with DOK/IDK/COS (Aelves)

 

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I'm really hoping we get an option ala some of the recent tomes (Idoneth, Cities) to include other factions' units without having to dip into allies, i.e. one sub-allegiance lets us take Phoenix Temple units as part of the army or something like that. It would really help old High Elf players work with the new range and give us more thematic options to make up for what appears to be a rather limited roster (in terms of sheer number of choices available.) 

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6 hours ago, AthelLoren said:

All of them are wizards? That sounds amazing. I might just reconsider starting a Lumineth army after all... Personally, I also love the Shining Company rule. It's very thematic and it seems like a fun thing to play around - even if it isn't too strong, I like armies that offer interesting gameplay. Also, how would you guys paint Ghyran Lumineth? A pristine White with green accents? A light green, as if glowing with life energy? Would an all-natural, druidic stone grey theme work?

The colour option you say all sound good. Officially all the Lumineth are in Hysh as far as we know, so you are pretty much free to do anything you want with some originating from Ghyran. Druidic definitely would fit with their theme (close to the realm as such). 

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1 hour ago, LuminethMage said:

The colour option you say all sound good. Officially all the Lumineth are in Hysh as far as we know, so you are pretty much free to do anything you want with some originating from Ghyran. Druidic definitely would fit with their theme (close to the realm as such). 

We don't know this, right? Cities can't be from anywhere but fire or life (mechanically, at least), so maybe Lumineth are similarely limited.

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5 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

It seems like you need to have them in 2 ranks to gain the benefit as, in order to have each model within base to base of 2 other models at a time, you need even the guy o the end to have 2 dudes within base to base of him. Is this correct?

You could also go 3-4 ranks deep (particularly with the pikes), which would allow you to peel units off of the back of the formation without loosing the Shining Company bonus, at least for a while.

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7 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Yeah when I read that rule it does seem to imply that it does the exact opposite of what they are saying, and it only helps the opponent basically achieve an additional 2” pile in :/

Yea, kinda stinks. I think it could be good though, like with small units or monsters. Just stuff to be careful of. Besides this is all speculation anyways.

 

i think it is going to be used more by the stoneguard rather than by the battle cattle. That way they can wrap around units and coral them  a bit better I think.

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3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

We don't know this, right? Cities can't be from anywhere but fire or life (mechanically, at least), so maybe Lumineth are similarely limited.

I meant for him as a background. If he wants them to be from Ghyran, then he can always come up with a fitting story. Rule-wise we don’t know, yup. 

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18 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I’m curious also how you can move a unit 2” and get them out of 3” engagement range. Won’t They just pile back in and be good to go?


Well, you can do a follow up move of 1" towards  them to help block them off. plus, it's at the end of each combat phase, where they already piled in and cannot do so again.

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2 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

I’m curious also how you can move a unit 2” and get them out of 3” engagement range. Won’t They just pile back in and be good to go?

Thats not its purpose, it is designed to push them back off objectives so you have more bodies than them

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