Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Frowny]

I hear there are a lot of spoiled images of rules etc. Would anybody be able to PM them to me? Or maybe they are somehwere in this very long post where I could find them?

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

51 minutes ago, Frowny said:

I hear there are a lot of spoiled images of rules etc. Would anybody be able to PM them to me? Or maybe they are somehwere in this very long post where I could find them?

the warcry rules were spoiled back on page 84 but they have since been deleted by the server. however the sidebar of the white dwarf article is viewable at https://spikeybits.com/2020/05/teclis-lumineth-realm-lord-rules-teasers-spotted.html

Edited May 13, 2020 by Yuviel Lightbringer

[Sttufe]

1 hour ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

the warcry rules were spoiled back on page 84 but they have since been deleted by the server. however the sidebar of the white dwarf article is viewable at https://spikeybits.com/2020/05/teclis-lumineth-realm-lord-rules-teasers-spotted.html

That 3+ ignore -1 and -2 rend on top of the 5+ FNP after save is the most painful combo I have seen.

[Grudgebearer]

That’s really brutal, especially against KO 😰

[Sttufe]

3 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

That’s really brutal, especially against KO 😰

*Looks at all my shiny weapons with -1 rend+ single shot weapons* *cries*

[Captain Skiron]

9 hours ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

I'm looking forward to giving the book a read, just like Court of the Blind King I want it to expand further about the every day society of the lumineth and the roles of the various castes. And it helps the artwork is gorgeous.

Oh, did Kourt of the Blind king actually expand on mandane aspects of Idoneth?  I was kinda hesitant to read it, so i'd like an honest opinion on it) 

[Captain Skiron]

9 hours ago, Yuviel Lightbringer said:

It's possible they wanted to break away from the sterotype slightly, since the Asur were always associated with the sword, from the sword of khaine, to sunfang and the fangsword and ultimately as these are not Asur they also wanted to break the weapon mould hence they have two types of hammer?

It is basically what "the AoS twist" is, break the cliche, we could say. Take something that became too associated with something and try to modify it. Dwarves are renown for theit tradition, then would they become without them? We get KO. Elves hate dwarves and vice versa, then what could happen if they try to build functional communities with humans - we get CoS. What if heroes after death do not get their feats and celebrations but a chance for revenge - the result is SCE. Same here: "Elves" are associated with something light and agile, but maybe they would contrast nicely with hammers. And thus we get Stoneguards. Also FB being  not exactly thinkative about its sources of inspiration - we have got ourselves in a situation where two very different "patterns" for fantasy elves: aes sídhe from irish folklore and hermanic-scandinavian álfar were heavily mixed, despite being drastically diferent. Because of that elves in world-that-was we have are those "classical" delicate loves of long swords. In Age of Sigmar, where GW tie almost every faction to some sort of follore origin, be that some specific folk tale, general collection of various folk tropes combined between each other by folklorists through similiar themes, or basing on common leitmotives of mythos. And thus we get Idoneth who are very close to the themes of isolation and retreat found in the stories of sidhe, and Lumineth who are obviously way closer to alfar, the latter never being associated with grace and elegance directly. 

[LuminethMage]

I'm not so sure about there being a big difference between "elegant" HE and "alfar" Lumineth. The HE weren't famous for their long swords . They had citizen infantry (spears, archers), cavalry with spears, lances and bows, and then their heavy infantry with Great Swords, Great Axes and Halberts. Because the HE had a much wider range of models with more options, you also had a few units with swords like the Shadow Warriors, but I think it wouldn't make much sense to say swords were symbolic for the HE in any way. Sure, you could equip many of the core units also with swords, but you "can" do that with Lumineth too (spearmen and cavalry, except mechanically it might not be there). All the core unit champions of the Lumineth (High Warden, High Sentinel, Steedmaster) have swords as their main weapon on the model. Warden and Dawnrider have them shown prominently as secondary weapons. 

And the way the Lumineth wield those hammers are supposed to be elegant and precise, in the same way a White Lion handles his Great Axe, and Sword Masters their Great Swords. You can easily see how the hammer units are a mix between the White Lions (match them more closely in looks) and Sword Master (fluff matches more closely in both being warrior monks). 

I still wonder why people (not specifically aimed at you Captain Skiron) make such a fuss about hammers, when animal pelt wearing, battle axe wielding warriors were perfectly fine elves. A hammer is at least as fitting for "High Elves" as an axe. High Elves are usually the more heavily armored "knightly" elves, and hammers, especially the polehammer version, is a specific anti plate-armor weapon and was mostly a knightly weapon in history. HE also often have an association with smithing and smith gods (because Noldor), and the Warhammer HE were no exception there. I think a lot of it just has to do with people really liking Sword masters and White Lions (me too, Sword Masters were my favorite non-hero unit), and being sad that those are gone.  

As for Age of Sigmar - I think concerning the Aelves, GW draws more from greek, middle east and asian myths and styles, than from irish or north traditions. Of course it's all mixed together and you can find all kind of strains in there, it's not exclusively greek. Mostly what AoS does is combine the old style of a faction with the supposed nature of their main Realm. And Hysh had always a bit of Greek and Egyptian influence in Warhammer.  

What Yuviel said is certainly true, with the hammer units they wanted to re-define what elves are in our eyes. That was explicitly stated in their "game show" reveal video, in a jokey way of course, but that's the intend. 

That got kind of out of hand, sorry about the long post. 

[Reuben Parker]

On the spear men side of things it will be interesting to see if they have 3” reach. Some of the side photos make the spears look super long. This would also fit in with a carry over from old High Elves when they could fight in 3 ranks. 
 

At a 120 for 10 with a possible regiment discount (here’s hoping) units of 30 are very doable. 

[LuminethMage]

23 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

On the spear men side of things it will be interesting to see if they have 3” reach. Some of the side photos make the spears look super long. This would also fit in with a carry over from old High Elves when they could fight in 3 ranks. 
 

At a 120 for 10 with a possible regiment discount (here’s hoping) units of 30 are very doable. 

Yup, that'll be interesting to see. In the Warcry band they indeed have 3" reach : ) . 

[Marius au]

I find the lack of dual kits really confusing.  I am surprised that the cav don't have an alternate as that would fill a unique role.   No fliers is also really odd.

I am really keen to see how they interact with the Idoneth.  One of the short stories (the one with the apprentice embailors) contains an interaction about Teclis.  The take away was that the Idoneth see Teclis as being perfect and that their imperfections could be a test, although they can't fathom the wisdom of a god. 

[Incineroar87]

Are the hammer dudes with hammers / diamond picks and the giant cow avatars our only dual kits at current ?

[Falkman]

2 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Are the hammer dudes with hammers / diamond picks and the giant cow avatars our only dual kits at current ?

As far as we know yes. And the hammer dudes look more like a weapon option rather than another unit entirely so not really a dual kit.

[Kramer]

10 hours ago, Captain Skiron said:

Oh, did Kourt of the Blind king actually expand on mandane aspects of Idoneth?  I was kinda hesitant to read it, so i'd like an honest opinion on it) 

Yeah kind off. The protagonist runs off with some thralls so you get the low down through then. And it’s a lot of political scheming between different courts with very different cultures. 
So you get both high and low brow cultural insight. 
I liked it. 

[Acid_Nine]

9 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Are the hammer dudes with hammers / diamond picks and the giant cow avatars our only dual kits at current ?

I dunno. We may have more things. I don’t think anyone guessed what kind of endless spells we’re getting, nor was it leaked. Maybe GW still have things hidden until the launch, which I hope is true.

[Tiberius501]

Just now, Acid_Nine said:

I dunno. We may have more things. I don’t think anyone guessed what kind of endless spells we’re getting, nor was it leaked. Maybe GW still have things hidden until the launch, which I hope is true.

Ever an optimist, I can respect that. I’ll be here to give you a hug. 

[Thiagoma]

The Warcry cards show hammer bros without helmets. Why didnt Gw showed those as well. Would have reduced the backlash from those that didnt like it.

[Acid_Nine]

51 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Ever an optimist, I can respect that. I’ll be here to give you a hug. 

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment..." -Blood Ravens Librarian, Dawn of War

[Falkman]

3 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

The Warcry cards show hammer bros without helmets. Why didnt Gw showed those as well. Would have reduced the backlash from those that didnt like it.

It’s the unit champion, it’s unlikely that they have enough bare heads for an entire unit.

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

4 minutes ago, Thiagoma said:

The Warcry cards show hammer bros without helmets. Why didnt Gw showed those as well. Would have reduced the backlash from those that didnt like it.

I found this on the warhammer community page in the Ultimate artisans article on the lumineth, so it was released after they showed the stoneguard off in the reveal video, so I would suspect it may be a 1 per box style arrangement.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Yuviel Lightbringer
spelling

[Sttufe]

If one of them has a normal head it wouldn't be too hard to convert with any extra heads you have left

[Ian Wallsh]

Is anyone still holding out hope (against hope) that there is more to reveal.......?

I was still hoping for a dragon/Phoenix thingy ridden be Tyrion or something.......?

I'm trying to be positive about this though: Eltharion is very cool and that whole Starter box is something I would invest in....

The Mountain Spirit is very cool and I can get used to the "Cow Elves' (given the right luck of paint).

Even Teclis is ok and can grow on me with time......

I can't help but wish they'd revealed more of the other 'elementals'.....

There's just a slight bitter aftertaste after all the hype, but it's better than no High Elves - right?

I just need to swallow it and move on....

[LuminethMage]

If we a ref really lucky there will be a few more units, but definitely no more Tyrion. At the moment what you do is probably the best option - if you can, be excited for the things we already have. A lot of awesome stuff in there. 

[Incineroar87]

With new AOS releases there has never been a huge amount of units secret, only NH and Gloomspite had 2-3 not revealed prior but they were huge releases mind you, all other armies are lucky to have one unrevealed in which has typically been a dual kit of some kind and never a important character. Wouldn’t hold my breath for any other units for this army either, but you never know though.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

@Ian Wallshyeah its is definetly better than no High Elves!
I am content with what we have and do not expect anymore - I was even unsure about Endless Spells until they were revealed.
However regarding Terrain: I think that Ship has sailed by now .... but well it is what it is.

Lumineth have inspired me a great deal with Terrain-Ideas, I think a few pages back somebody already linked the Video about making Elven Waystones out of cardboard, by Miscast on youtube --> you should chek it out! 
Because of the Wheat on the Lumineth Bases I want to make a Lumineth Farm lol ^^

Edit: Personally the Stoneguard-Helmets grew on me, but People who don't like them could use Shadow Warrior Helmets - they seem perfectly made for this!

Edited May 15, 2020 by Aloth_Corfiser