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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


HollowHills

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I agree with the points raised here, and as stated earlier I'm not keen on the whole "Aelves with Hammers" thing...  

Swords, double-handed axes, Great Swords, no problem.... 

However, if it was a ceremonial weapon, or one wielded by a solo 'specialist, eg elemental wizard, that's something I might be able to get my head around...... 

Entire ranks of Hammer-wielding Aelves - Nope! 

 

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17 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

@Rhetoric It’s okay to be in denial, a lot of us were when we first heard about hammer Aelves. 

While I do think that hammer Aelves will be legit, with this picture I feel like that rumor is gaining momentum. It is still possible that is a picture of a war machine operator or something else. Now if we could only touch some photos from GW instead of just having to pray every day about what we will get released. But alas GW just wants to gain some momentum from rumors to increase hype, that's just how they roll.... */mchammer puns off*

In all seriousness, could be but we still don't really know until we actually see what the unit is, rather than just a blurry picture. I do have a feeling those who say hammer unit is correct, and i'll either have a bunch of 80's puns whenever I play or conversions ahead.

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3 hours ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

My big disconect with the hammers is that they are a brutal, savage weapon.  Elves have traditionally been elegent, finesseful race.  These two images just don't really overlap in my head.  As I said though, if they can make the concept work, I'll at least try them out.

Yeah, I think most of us feel like that. Especially with them emphasising how much everything is based on the Teclis' nostalgia for the former High elf culture. They could maybe try to say that the aetherqartzed Lumineth are so graceful that they even make hammers an elegant weapon. But then the armour also doesn't look very graceful. 

So maybe the development process went like this: 

Teclis: Sooo, let's see  .... we have graceful horses with the light of speed, long, elegant spears, and graceful helmets. Next we need some sophisticated greatsw....

Tyrion: HAMMERS!!!! You promised me that I can design one of our units. 

In a way it's good that they also try some new stuff. I'm sure we get at least some great swords. It would be really strange if Teclis wouldn't try to re-design the Swordmasters. I also wonder if we don't see great axes. I think the White Lions were a really popular unit. 

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2 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Yeah, I think most of us feel like that. Especially with them emphasising how much everything is based on the Teclis' nostalgia for the former High elf culture. They could maybe try to say that the aetherqartzed Lumineth are so graceful that they even make hammers an elegant weapon. But then the armour also doesn't look very graceful. 

So maybe the development process went like this: 

Teclis: Sooo, let's see  .... we have graceful horses with the light of speed, long, elegant spears, and graceful helmets. Next we need some sophisticated greatsw....

Tyrion: HAMMERS!!!! You promised me that I can design one of our units. 

In a way it's good that they also try some new stuff. I'm sure we get at least some great swords. It would be really strange if Teclis wouldn't try to re-design the Swordmasters. I also wonder if we don't see great axes. I think the White Lions were a really popular unit. 

My disconnect is all the MC hammer between Teclis' pants and Aelves with hammers.... in all seriousness though I agree with those before, its just not how I see Elven warriors, honestly even greatswords and great axes in old world was a bit of a stretch for me, not impossible but stretching it. If they make a hammer unit, I will probably be converting it to be an Great axe unit though. I dont mind them trying new stuff and maybe the units will look so cool that I wont care anymore. but it is odd about all the nostalgia, like you said, only to go kind of off the rails.... I know they need to make them fresh enough though to draw in people who dont want high elves of old though.

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I don't have a problem with Aelves wielding hammers.  Its not traditional, but then AOS seems to be deliberately moving away from traditional Fantasy concepts to create its own Fantasy vision.  They're just doing it in incremental steps to make it more palatable.  I'm finding it quite refreshing.  I have to say that I think that Aelves with dual-wielding hammers would look pretty cool, but I'll be happy with a larger single hammer if that's what is offered.  There'll be enough alternative options in the army, I'm sure, for those who don't like the concept.  Of course if hammers have particularly good rules, that may help to sugar the pill.

Edited by Aelfric
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26 minutes ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

@LuminethMage "I think the White Lions were a really popular unit."

....I mean, have you seen my user name? 😎

What has that to do with anything? : ) 

Yes, exactly. I think they were really popular, also in the Warhammer Online game, they just sadly messed them up in TW. But from my impression, a lot of people really liked them. So hopefully we see a great axe unit too. 

@Mr2spyderguy Personally I'm agnostic to hammers. Generally I'm much more in the nostalgia corner (so I want to see new Swordmasters and White Lions), but I think they probably want to have a mixture of nostalgia units and some units where people who weren't interested in the High Elves before just think "that's cool". Just as you say yourself to attract AOS players. Also from a creative point of view, it's probably not fun to only design re-makes. Or maybe they just thought this is cool. As we have some units who bond with mountain spirits, I could see them using such a weapon. Might make sense. Even if it's not for everyone. 

We all have our best case Lumineth in mind. That's why often it's the best time before the full reveal because the army still can be perfect for everyone. For me it's all about the magic. I'd be somewhat sad if they don't have many caster options, have great new Endless spells, and at least a magic focused army bonus option like COS. 

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Axes aren't that much more elegant than hammers, and you do still need to be precise with hammers in the same way as axes? They're both top heavy and leave you open if you don't follow through properly. I think the idea that hammers are too savage or lesser for elves is based in the more "uncivilized" races having them as iconic weapons.

Weapons are tools. They aren't flashy in just anyone's hands; training is required for that. Orcs have swords, spears, and axes, and no one would say they're martial or elegant with them. What better way to make hammers more 'martial' than to give them to elves?

Edited by CommissarRotke
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@CommissarRotke Heh, sorry, I'm a curmudgeonly old man.  I want my elves with swords, bows, and lances, my dwarves with hammers and axes, and my orcs with spiked clubs and flails!

In all seriousness, I am trying to keep an open mind about everything.  AOS over the past year has been surprisingly refreshing to me, and I am willing to be proven wrong.  And while I want amazing lore that I can really dig into, I like the game aspect as well, so I'll play what works and fits my play style.

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which is fair! there's been decades of these fantasy tropes that it will feel weird when anyone breaks them, and especially GW because they're actually modelling these changes into their massive tabletop/lore game.

I've always been a spear and axe man myself, heck I'm not a fan of Liberators because of it and I chose SCE as a first army, but hammer wielding elves that will most likely be channeling magic while fighting? That sounds too cool to pass up.

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4 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

which is fair! there's been decades of these fantasy tropes that it will feel weird when anyone breaks them, and especially GW because they're actually modelling these changes into their massive tabletop/lore game.

I've always been a spear and axe man myself, heck I'm not a fan of Liberators because of it and I chose SCE as a first army, but hammer wielding elves that will most likely be channeling magic while fighting? That sounds too cool to pass up.

I think the highlighted part exactly what GW is aiming for. And most of us nostalgics will get over it : ). The hammer unit seems to look pretty cool. 

And you made a very good point, if someone can make Hammers elegant, it's elves damnit! : ) 

I'm just happy that this conversation has brought us through another few days. Need my my next Lumineth fix soon. 

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Ironically elves with hammers would be even closer to Tolkien. the Silmarillion has tons of elves that use hammers as weapons...

 

as for the phoenixes thing, hoping we'll eventually get multiple phoenix types (hoping for both eagle phoenixes aswell as this new 4 legged dragon-phoenix thingy)

I also think there is a decent chance phoenix temple will be included now to some degree.

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9 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

In a way it's good that they also try some new stuff. I'm sure we get at least some great swords. It would be really strange if Teclis wouldn't try to re-design the Swordmasters. I also wonder if we don't see great axes. I think the White Lions were a really popular unit. 

I could totally see the same unit (or kit at least) having options for 2 handed swords, hammers and axes together. Possibly one of them being a special weapon in the unit.

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10 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

I also think there is a decent chance phoenix temple will be included now to some degree.

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me to see a 1in 4 variant, probably in a subfaction.  I do wonder how aloof they will be towards other Aelven races, though. Teclis was never one for allying with others.

 

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Just now, Aelfric said:

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me to see a 1in 4 variant, probably in a subfaction.  I do wonder how aloof they will be towards other Aelven races, though. Teclis was never one for allying with others.

 

Teclis was actually pretty open to allying with other races, at least outside the End Times. In fact, Teclis was the one responsible for humanities use of magic in the first place, so he has a track record of being open. Hell he even works with Malekith in AoS, the biggest elven arsehole in the world.

but I can still see him having a grudge with sigmar after messing with his enlightment engine.

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1 minute ago, Acid_Nine said:

Teclis was actually pretty open to allying with other races, at least outside the End Times. In fact, Teclis was the one responsible for humanities use of magic in the first place, so he has a track record of being open. Hell he even works with Malekith in AoS, the biggest elven arsehole in the world.

but I can still see him having a grudge with sigmar after messing with his enlightment engine.

Yea, I was probably being a bit harsh.  He was more open about 10,000 years ago :)

 

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13 hours ago, xking said:

The hammer unit serves the spirit of the mountains. Who I think will also be a monster hero similar to the Sphynx that is with Teclis.  " animal humanoid hybrid with an elf mask face, wielding a big  hammer"

Whitewolf has been giving hints with his "little hammer and big hammer" comment that was in the rumor thread.

do you have a link for this comment? that is very intriguing, idk why I hadn't thought of a behemoth type unit being an actual aspect spirit

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Teclis was open to other races because he felt superior to them in a way he never had in elven society.  He grew up ostracized because he was frail, sickly, and less than physically perfect.  He never really got over this.  Meanwhile, among the other races, his looks still made him beautiful by their standards, and his intellect was obviously beyond theirs, while he felt a kinship with them for being flawed.

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9 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me to see a 1in 4 variant, probably in a subfaction.  I do wonder how aloof they will be towards other Aelven races, though. Teclis was never one for allying with others.

 

There was a little hint on how they see Teclis in the WC article which introduced him a few weeks back:

Quote

Teclis remained closely invested in the lives of humans as well as aelves, aiding his ally Sigmar with the creation of the Enlightenment Engines. These arcane devices promoted learning and knowledge, much in the same manner that the realmstone known as aetherquartz did for the inhabitants of Hysh. Sigmar would later enlist the duardin god Grungni to remake the Enlightenment Engines into the Penumbral Engines, reversing their purpose and using them to shroud his Stormvaults from view. Teclis has been seen little in the Age of Sigmar – at least, so far. Did any of his aelven races aside from the Idoneth survive? Just what is going on in Hysh? Can the Mage God forgive Sigmar for corrupting his gift?

The Enlightenment Engines were a pretty big deal in the Time of Myth, contributing much to the flourishing of the kingdoms during that time.  So he was pretty good disposed against both aelves and humans at that time. 

I guess - because they wrote this and pose the question at all, that there is some quarrel between them now. Or maybe now Sigi helps them with his boys in Hysh and all is fine. 

Problem between the Idoneth and Lumineth might come more from the other side. Must be not great for them to see the Lumineth around. 

Edited by LuminethMage
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1 hour ago, Acid_Nine said:

Honestly the idoneth may like seeing more lumineth around. Dohm-hain is infamous for taking aelven souls, so having more aelves around would be a good thing for them, assuming they are still antagonistic against the lumineth .

I wouldn't be surprised if the Idoneth predate the light elves out of pure spite, being as the Lumineth are basically what the Idoneth could have been if Teclis hadn't created them with broken souls.

Also, hammers are a fine weapon for elves, especially given all the heavy armor that Chaos factions wear. Might as well just crump them instead of trying to slide a bendy sword between their armor plates.

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