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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


HollowHills

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Are Ballistas ever taken over Sentinels for the given points? 25 points less, but half the wounds (gain a 6+ ward), 1/3 the shots (better rend and damage), no MWs, gain the blinding shot and hit bonus. Seems... ok(?) trade for purposes of utility, but for scoring objectives, mobility, and basically everything else Sentinels seem better. 

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40 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Are Ballistas ever taken over Sentinels for the given points? 25 points less, but half the wounds (gain a 6+ ward), 1/3 the shots (better rend and damage), no MWs, gain the blinding shot and hit bonus. Seems... ok(?) trade for purposes of utility, but for scoring objectives, mobility, and basically everything else Sentinels seem better. 

I think ballista has a purpose now due to unleash hell, the neg hit can come in handy as defensive mechanism, so personally I'll probably at least try it out.

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I haven't played any 3rd ed rules yet but my experience from 2nd ed has been that most of the time the ballista isn't reliable when it comes to doing damage but the -1 to hit ability has been useful from time to time. I almost always felt like a 10man of sentinels was more useful than the ballista for doing damage and was happy with paying the 40points extra but now that it is only a 25point difference, I am not sure how much love the ballista will be getting in the long run from me but I'm going to keep trying it out for awhile since I do like the model a lot.

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12 hours ago, Requizen said:

Are Ballistas ever taken over Sentinels for the given points? 25 points less, but half the wounds (gain a 6+ ward), 1/3 the shots (better rend and damage), no MWs, gain the blinding shot and hit bonus. Seems... ok(?) trade for purposes of utility, but for scoring objectives, mobility, and basically everything else Sentinels seem better. 

Ballistas can be good on Illiatha (if illiatha get faqed to work). Place a Bannerblade near two with his aura of 18" to issue commands, make the battery battalion, overwatch with both of them for free and do the -1 hit if you need.

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1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Ballistas can be good on Illiatha (if illiatha get faqed to work). Place a Bannerblade near two with his aura of 18" to issue commands, make the battery battalion, overwatch with both of them for free and do the -1 hit if you need.

I also see a benefit in splitting the three shots for multiple -1 to-hit debuffs.

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21 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I also see a benefit in splitting the three shots for multiple -1 to-hit debuffs.

You need to hit for that once per game debuff to apply. I'd rather guarantee (-ish) i get it on the unit where it's needed.

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13 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

So, with the point changes are moo mountains still good? And is it still a no brainer to take Avalenor over the generic ones?

We have to find out, but probably not. The price tag is very different now, and -2 rend likely more valuable than before. On the other hand Avalenor has hero actions, which the Spirit doesn't have. 

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3 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

We have to find out, but probably not. The price tag is very different now, and -2 rend likely more valuable than before. On the other hand Avalenor has hero actions, which the Spirit doesn't have. 

I think if a player were to lean into the alarith element than a Spirit of the Mountain is good. Avalenor seems far too expensive for its MV characteristic. 

It doesn't matter how many bonuses a unit recieves for getting charged unless it's invulnerable to damage letting you opponent decide what fights your unit is poor strategically. So low movement is a serious problem. Especially at over 400 points. 

But I can see 10 Stoneguard, Spirit of the Mountain and 1 stonemage being a decent part of any army. 

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On 6/21/2021 at 9:39 PM, Requizen said:

Are Ballistas ever taken over Sentinels for the given points? 25 points less, but half the wounds (gain a 6+ ward), 1/3 the shots (better rend and damage), no MWs, gain the blinding shot and hit bonus. Seems... ok(?) trade for purposes of utility, but for scoring objectives, mobility, and basically everything else Sentinels seem better. 

Ballistas could also be taken as part of the artillery core battalion (forget the name off hand), which Sentinels can't.

If my understanding of the battalion bonus is correct, they could use unleash hell twice in reaction to the same charge. Once for a CP, once for free from the battalion ability. Even if I've got that wrong, unleash hell could be used twice in that charge phase by different units. Could be very effective.

Not saying they're better than Sentinels, just pointing out one pro.

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1 hour ago, Ian Wallsh said:

I tried to defend Lumineth on another thread......OMG PEOPLE REALLY DON'T LIKE SENTINELS DO THEY!!??

Yeah there’s a lot of (somewhat deserved) anger towards them as a unit. It’s best to just try and scroll past threads like that when possible imo, you’re a rock trying to attack a mountain

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On 7/2/2021 at 6:51 PM, whispersofblood said:

I think if a player were to lean into the alarith element than a Spirit of the Mountain is good. Avalenor seems far too expensive for its MV characteristic. 

It doesn't matter how many bonuses a unit recieves for getting charged unless it's invulnerable to damage letting you opponent decide what fights your unit is poor strategically. So low movement is a serious problem. Especially at over 400 points. 

But I can see 10 Stoneguard, Spirit of the Mountain and 1 stonemage being a decent part of any army. 

Depends, Avalenor does more though, the -1 to hit bubble is good. He also counts as a hero for list building, which might be what you need to get one or another battalion. An additional artifact and/or CP is good. I can see people paying the extra points just for that, and slot Avalenor in a list as their 3rd hero. Doesn't even have to be with other Alarith, or a full Alarith faction. My guess is that a lot of list will end up with 3/4 heroes, and it's not guaranteed that a Mountain Spirit and then likely another cheap hero to fulfill the limit will be better than slotting in Avalenor. 

The field is smaller, we have access to Speed of Hysh, which you likely would still have even in a mostly Alarith build. Of course you won't always get it cast. Let's see. I think Avalenor might be just worth his points in comparison to a MS. Probably depends on personal preferences and the kind of list you want to build. 

On 7/3/2021 at 6:58 AM, Ian Wallsh said:

I tried to defend Lumineth on another thread......OMG PEOPLE REALLY DON'T LIKE SENTINELS DO THEY!!??

I gave up on that. It's pointless. Many of us tried, I also thought it's possible to change some minds, but it's 100% not here on this forum. Luckily it isn't that bad everywhere. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 6:37 PM, JustAsPlanned said:

Yeah there’s a lot of (somewhat deserved) anger towards them as a unit. It’s best to just try and scroll past threads like that when possible imo, you’re a rock trying to attack a mountain

To be fair, it is a similar situation to the Bonereaper Catapult. 3 of them in 2nd edition just meant you weren't getting to play with your support piece heroes, period. 

Those models tend to be the ones that draw people into the army and as such get more attention to paint jobs. It is no surprise that my OBR with even a single catapult or your LRL list with, say, 20 Sentinels opposed to 50 or 60, is still going to draw ire.

In my mind, it is fine; it isn't like I am spamming the "problem" unit. The opponent doesn't care; they will remember the time their 200+ point support unit benefiting from Look Out Sir!, 7 wounds, and a 3+ save got targeted with a single catapult, all 3 shots hit and wounded, and they rolled a 1, a 5, and a 2 for their 3 saves. 

They're going to remember the time you got 5 6s on 20 shots and failed to make a single deathless save and picked up their Guardian of Souls turn 1.

In their mind, the fact you even have the problem unit is the problem. 

Does it suck for us to be sneered at for things outside our control? Sure.

Do I think situations like this should even be in the game to begin with? Noooooo.

Honestly, points adjustments or whatever won't fix Sentinels. I like the no LoS threat they pose, they are just plagued by a problem that is running rampant in the game. Mortal wounds on 6 need to be moved to the wound roll, as rerolling wounds is a far rarer ability and is also a 2nd layer of rng gating the powerful effect more appropriately. 

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On 7/2/2021 at 11:58 PM, Ian Wallsh said:

I tried to defend Lumineth on another thread......OMG PEOPLE REALLY DON'T LIKE SENTINELS DO THEY!!??

I was going to get back into AOS because of Lumineth, bought most of the army, was super happy with Sevirith, etc., but people really killed the vibe for me with all the snarky comments. I am still painting slowly, but whats the point playing if the opponent is just going to be sour all game?

I see the same in TCGs, I think we need a global mentality adjustment. Because I think this type of toxicity is bad for board/cardgames.

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3 hours ago, Kugane said:

I was going to get back into AOS because of Lumineth, bought most of the army, was super happy with Sevirith, etc., but people really killed the vibe for me with all the snarky comments. I am still painting slowly, but whats the point playing if the opponent is just going to be sour all game?

I see the same in TCGs, I think we need a global mentality adjustment. Because I think this type of toxicity is bad for board/cardgames.

It's a difficult topic. On the one hand it's definitely just plain sad when an army's aesthetic and lore really inspire you and then your opponents take the fun out of it by being sour. On the other hand negative playing experiences do exist and it sure is depressing to lose without a chance... Though the latter might often have more to do with your opponent's skill than their army's rules.

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13 hours ago, Kugane said:

I was going to get back into AOS because of Lumineth, bought most of the army, was super happy with Sevirith, etc., but people really killed the vibe for me with all the snarky comments. I am still painting slowly, but whats the point playing if the opponent is just going to be sour all game?

I see the same in TCGs, I think we need a global mentality adjustment. Because I think this type of toxicity is bad for board/cardgames.

As long as this is not in real life, I wouldn't care. Don't let other people decide on what you want to do, especially not people on the internet. That's exactly what some of them want to achieve with their comments. 

If it's a problem within your local gaming group, then it's more difficult of course. 

Personally, I dealt with it by not coming to forums like this here that often anymore, and stick to friendlier (for me) places. It's not that it's like this everywhere even on the internet. You have a very vocal community here sadly which just doesn't like LRL. 

I think you are totally right, this kind of gatekeeping and constantly bitching about play styles and armies you don't like is bad for the hobby as such. It's by no means only a problem for LRL players. 

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13 hours ago, Kugane said:

I was going to get back into AOS because of Lumineth, bought most of the army, was super happy with Sevirith, etc., but people really killed the vibe for me with all the snarky comments. I am still painting slowly, but whats the point playing if the opponent is just going to be sour all game?

I see the same in TCGs, I think we need a global mentality adjustment. Because I think this type of toxicity is bad for board/cardgames.

And should it be IRL just don’t overdo it with the sentinels and slowly ease them in. Really shouldn’t be that much of a problem at the table. 
If the other guys don’t go all out competition on you, you don’t have to teclis sentinel them.

The game is so much more fun now anyway when both play a somewhat diverse army. I really like it & LRL have an abundance of units to chose from.

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I have a question;  If I have allies, can I choose them when using the "Lightning Reactions" Allegience Ability?  The ability only specifies units, not Lumineth Realmlord units.  I was daydreaming about Eltharion and Gotrek together and hit upon this thought.

If it is allowed, it might be useful with any Idoneth allies as well.

What do people think?

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Eltharion and Gotrek going at it together as a super tornado tag team sounds so fun! 😊

It's still so weird that Idoneth are our only allies, and Cities of Sigmar aren't. I imagine a Deepkin General slowly and fearfully approaching the Lumineth army after a successful battle:

"See guys?! We're not so bad, right guys? I mean, like, we're all AELVES, right guys? Sooo... No need to genocide us, right? RIGHT?!"

Archmage Teclis turns his head towards his unlikely allies, slowly raising an eyebrow. The light eminating from his eyes grows brighter..

Edited by Maogrim
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Hi all, newbie, dipping into the LRL and have been reading through the core book and it's depiction of Hysh. Really loving it but I was rather surprised that LRL cannot have allies from an army representing Settler's Gain. Do you think maybe whatever happens with Cities/Dawnbringer Settlements will change that? 

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On 7/14/2021 at 7:33 AM, petitionercity said:

Hi all, newbie, dipping into the LRL and have been reading through the core book and it's depiction of Hysh. Really loving it but I was rather surprised that LRL cannot have allies from an army representing Settler's Gain. Do you think maybe whatever happens with Cities/Dawnbringer Settlements will change that? 

Hard to say, it really looks like they don't want us to take a lot of allies right now. If it's for balance reasons, it might stay like that, if it's for sales reasons, it could change in the future.

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On 7/14/2021 at 5:59 AM, Aelfric said:

I have a question;  If I have allies, can I choose them when using the "Lightning Reactions" Allegience Ability?  The ability only specifies units, not Lumineth Realmlord units.  I was daydreaming about Eltharion and Gotrek together and hit upon this thought.

If it is allowed, it might be useful with any Idoneth allies as well.

What do people think?

Allies never benefit from allegiance abilities, so no I don’t think you can pick non Lumineth units with Lightning Reactions 

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