Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Requizen]

15 minutes ago, inflitionz said:

source?

Facehammer did a stream flipping through the whole GHB. Basically every unit in the game went up 5-15 points at a minimum, though a few specific ones went down.

[Howdyhedberg]

What do yall think about this 1000 point army? Too crazy?

 

Heroes

Scinari loreseeker
Lord regent
Eltharion

Battleline:
10 Wardens
5 Bladelords

Others:
5 Dawnriders

Total points: 990

Edited June 17, 2021 by Howdyhedberg

[Yondaime]

They literally nuked alarith from orbit

WHY?

I am so sad

[Diogenes]

3 hours ago, Yondaime said:

They literally nuked alarith from orbit

WHY?

I am so sad

That was also my first thought, but I am not sure about this. Games will show.

As long as they are ingnoring -2 rend, there will be plenty abilities giving them a 3+ roll, mountain dudes always 2+ roll, perhaps all the time? That does not sound too bad to me.

Mystic Shield, Command Ability and Aether Quarz are three units per turn. Of course they loose their re-roll via the battalion. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Diogenes
typo

[whispersofblood]

Alarith are also have a pretty rare CMD ability in +1 Attack from the Spirit of the Mountains/Avenalor, Stoneguard without the use of any CP, can be 3 A, 2+, 3+ -2, Dmg1 6 to hit causing a MW. That is a very rare set of abilities in the game, and given that units aren't typically going to be over 30 wounds or so quite deadly as you can get 10 models on 32s into a fight with a 7+3 formation. 

I think all round Wardens are better, but Alarith aren't out of the game. And Ymetrica has legs, it's just probably the worst Nation.

[Yondaime]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

That was also my first thought, but I am not sure about this. Games will show.

As long as they are ingnoring -2 rend, there will be plenty abilities giving them a 3+ roll, mountain dudes always 2+ roll, perhaps all the time? That does not sound too bad to me.

Mystic Shield, Command Ability and Aether Quarz are three units per turn. Of course they loose their re-roll via the battalion. 

Dude save bonus and hit roll is capped at -1/+1

And i dont know another ability that let reroll save in lumineth

Also, since the point hyke it will be very hard to fit teclis for the ++

I have an eldar entering 9th edition deja vu, when we lost our stacking debuffs/buffs we went straight bottom tier

Edited June 18, 2021 by Yondaime

[Yondaime]

1 hour ago, whispersofblood said:

Alarith are also have a pretty rare CMD ability in +1 Attack from the Spirit of the Mountains/Avenalor, Stoneguard without the use of any CP, can be 3 A, 2+, 3+ -2, Dmg1 6 to hit causing a MW. That is a very rare set of abilities in the game, and given that units aren't typically going to be over 30 wounds or so quite deadly as you can get 10 models on 32s into a fight with a 7+3 formation. 

I think all round Wardens are better, but Alarith aren't out of the game. And Ymetrica has legs, it's just probably the worst Nation.

Problem is, you wont have the points to fit avalenor stonemage, stoneguard and a decent amount of sentinels, and with UH i think charging will be very hard

[Ragest]

Alariths nuked

Hurakans nuked

Ballistas nuked

Eltarion nuked

Twins nuked

Even the damm Calligrave has a no sense 15 points hike.

But sents +10

[woolf]

I think the biggest issue is the 25 pt hike on wardens, they were the most decent hammer unit we had so feels like we will struggle to output enough dmg now, and also as you need them for battleline it's a flat out tax that will leave much less room for adding the fun stuff our book is packed with.. maybe the new environment with coherency rules, all the spells, high armour etc are enough boosts so LRL stays competitive but when you need to pay 1175 pts to get only teclis and 30 wardens, that build seems pretty dead at least

[Narissra]

I'm really sad about the large point increase to Sevireth. The amount of times I've had him do 2-3 damage in a turn and fail his 3+ fly over bomb drop already made me sad at his cost but now he is more expensive and all monsters can destroy terrain so his special ability is less unique, granted I know we don't have many monsters but still... I feel like He has just been pointed out of play-ability for me. I don't think him having access to the heroic actions makes him worth a 45point increase... Oh well, guess I can just swap in 20 more sentinels since everyone loves that we seem to only be able to spam sentinels...

[Iteken]

3 hours ago, Ragest said:

Alariths nuked

Hurakans nuked

Ballistas nuked

Eltarion nuked

Twins nuked

Even the damm Calligrave has a no sense 15 points hike.

But sents +10

To put this in context - is it a LRL nerf, or is everything becoming more expensive to account for 3.0's new stuff ?
As a baseline, what's happening to Stormcast, and Vamps ?

[Maogrim]

So, what you guys are saying is that Ymetrica eventually secured the 'Hysh's Top Nation' coffee mug from Syar since they field tough-as-nails 2- wound infantery as battleline that gets even tougher with the abundance of command points, doesn't have to rely on Auralan Legion rule, profits from better monster and hero rules and doesn't care about Miscasts since the battleline isn't relying Wizards to do their thing? Awesome! Finally the Scions of the Mountains SHALL REIGN SUPREME! 😍

[Lucur]

39 minutes ago, Iteken said:

To put this in context - is it a LRL nerf, or is everything becoming more expensive to account for 3.0's new stuff ?
As a baseline, what's happening to Stormcast, and Vamps ?

General move seems to be 10-15 % increase with some units well above and a few below those values (e.g. Liberators 90-> 95, Wardems 120->145).

[Nightseer2012]

1 hour ago, Iteken said:

To put this in context - is it a LRL nerf, or is everything becoming more expensive to account for 3.0's new stuff ?
As a baseline, what's happening to Stormcast, and Vamps ?

Nothing notable in Soulblight changed from their newest Battletome to 3.0.  Their new book seemed to be designed with 3.0 in mind.  I think Nagash came down from 975 to 970.  You can take Radukar the Wolf by himself, but the rest still come in a bundle... stuff like that.  Nothing else till the day 1 faqs.

[woolf]

6 hours ago, Nightseer2012 said:

Nothing notable in Soulblight changed from their newest Battletome to 3.0.  Their new book seemed to be designed with 3.0 in mind.  I think Nagash came down from 975 to 970.  You can take Radukar the Wolf by himself, but the rest still come in a bundle... stuff like that.  Nothing else till the day 1 faqs.

yep soulbligth seems pretty competitive now, blood knights are great at 195 in this world

[overtninja]

It occurs to me that with most units being base sized, 10 sentinels will actually chew up most base-sized things in the game - and 20 of them certainly will. I think a lot of people are underestimating the difference smaller unit sizes and coherency rules are going to make - sentinels  with 3" reach guaranteeing they all get to attack, even in a block of 20, and most things won't be able to guarantee that kind of frontage or attacks back.

The rest of our elite infantry also benefit from new coherency rules since it means they won't be facing large blocks of dudes on huge bases all getting into combat together unless they're a block of 3 or they have reach.

I am enjoying how much of a boogyman sentinels are for everyone, though - seems like many people are upset they didn't go up to 200 for 10! I think with a smaller board it wouldn't be prudent to rely on them as heavily, though they will still be very strong for picking off heroes and the like.

I'm not seeing the same doom and gloom as you guys are, everyone has to rewrite their lists and relearn the rules and the new tricks and tactics made possible by them.

[whispersofblood]

16 hours ago, Ragest said:

Alariths nuked

Hurakans nuked

Ballistas nuked

Eltarion nuked

Twins nuked

Even the damm Calligrave has a no sense 15 points hike.

But sents +10

TBF nothing got "nuked"

All the heroes are objectively better than they were before either they are more effective fighters by way of their access to heroic actions, or live longer, etc. Eltharion healing D3 basically every hero phase is damn annoying, especially considering the other actions aren't massively valuable to him. But, I don't think heroes are general points well spent anyway, but I do want the arcane tome on my Lord Regent so I'm debating adding a 3rd hero to field the Warlord Battalion.

The Calligrave has been growing on my since launch and I actually think they are our best Scinari unit in the end of 2.0 and moving into 3.0. It was only our obsession with Syar that made them seem poor. I'm actually trying to get 2 into my lists going forward. 

He has a long range MW attack which the game has lost with the changes to Arcane Bolt, contemplation lets casting the more difficult and powerful Endless Spells (Soul Snare Shackles, stand out here), and the once per game ability is frankly amazing but fair in multiple was as it is a dice roll which is nice for the opponent, but also you get to choose between how much value you are getting and how likely it is to go off. And, he is the cheapest Scinari, who can just relax in the Shrine and provide almost full value.

Ballistas are fine, they get a lot of value from Iliatha, but not so much for Syar or other Nations. This is a cool attribute of our faction in that the relative value of units depends on what Nation you are in. FYI I'll be exclusively playing Iliatha or Alumnia as I think they offer the most interesting playstyle personally.

Honestly I own 30 Sentinels and I'm probably not taking more than 10 in my lists they just don't take part in the game the way I want them to so I'd rather buy more Wardens or... other things 😏

[Aelfric]

6 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

Ballistas are fine, they get a lot of value from Iliatha

Unfortunately, you can't double-tap the Iliatha CA as it only works on units with 2 or more models.  Other CAs should be fine though.

On a positive note, I am much nearer to having a 2000pt army painted than I was a couple of days ago.

[woolf]

25 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

On a positive note, I am much nearer to having a 2000pt army painted than I was a couple of days ago.

same 😂

having played around a bit with list building, I'm starting to come around that it will still work, you just need to be relentless in cutting things out (was already difficult before as so many cool warscrolls in LRL)

[Aelfric]

16 minutes ago, woolf said:

same 😂

having played around a bit with list building, I'm starting to come around that it will still work, you just need to be relentless in cutting things out (was already difficult before as so many cool warscrolls in LRL)

Yea, the list I was painting towards is now well over 2000, so adjustments are needed.  I'm contemplating having a block of 15 Bladelords; with 2" reach, you can still get most in range and with smaller units around their Perfect Strike seems like pretty reliable damage.  They can quite easily be on +1 save and have built-in spell resistance, and allows you to send a Wizard further forward.  Given the hike on Wardens, 15 looks like a decent alternative to 30 wardens. 

Also, happy to see my faith in Iliatha has borne fruit.

[Chumphammer]

My 1st two list ideas. Gotrek seems a better deal than spirit of the mountain but keeping that monster is
kinda needed now unless I ally something 

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

Unfortunately, you can't double-tap the Iliatha CA as it only works on units with 2 or more models.  Other CAs should be fine though.

On a positive note, I am much nearer to having a 2000pt army painted than I was a couple of days ago.

Unity of Purpose doesn't have that restriction meaning you can use Unleash Hell on the ballista and another unit.

[Aelfric]

17 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Unity of Purpose doesn't have that restriction meaning you can use Unleash Hell on the ballista and another unit.

That's true.  They are 125 pts now though, so hard to fit in.

It seems the Loreseeker is no longer unique, though, so you can give them an artifact (5+ward save) and take more than one.  They only went up 10 points.

[chosen_of_khaine]

So what are we thinking in terms of valuing the named spirits vs the unnamed ones? Avalenor is 50 points more than a generic one, and Sevireth is 80 (!) more (so 30pts increased disparity from 2.0).  From what I can tell, as heroes they get: 2d3 possible recovery a turn, once per game +1 hit and save, and the ability to give themselves command abilities, in addition to their warscroll differences. 

I haven't seen the missions yet so I'm not sure if heroes get any extra bonuses in scoring, but do we think they are worth the increased premium? I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not sure...

Edited June 21, 2021 by chosen_of_khaine

[chosen_of_khaine]

Double post

Edited June 21, 2021 by chosen_of_khaine