Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Rune]

On 5/17/2021 at 3:06 PM, adboyslim said:

About Lone agent rule I really can't believe what I read  I need to review all the warscrolls to see if I can extract a sentence out of his context and use it as separate rule

Please do provide something, I'd love to hear what you find.

Abilities should be understood as written, since if they are not it's super speculative and open for misinterpretation. 

A ton of abilities within Lumineth has abilities within abilities. These are not linked. It's a lore "feature" that provides several abilities. I'm not a fan that GW did it this way, but that's how they did.

Here are two examples, just of the top of my mind:

• Sevireth, his "Spirit of the Wind" ability reads: At the end of the shooting phase, this model can make a normal move of 12" but cannot run (it can retreat). In addition, this model can retreat and still charge later in the same turn.

That is two "abilities" within one ability seperate by a full stop. The "In addition, this model can retreat...", is not linked to what's before the full stop. Sevirith can retreat in the movement phase as well and still charge in the charge phase. It's not attached to the 12" after shooting phase move.

• Teclis "Discs of the Aelementiri" ability states: "In your hero phase, in addition to casting 1, 2 or up to 4 spells, this model can automatically dispel 1 endless spell (do not roll 2D6). In the enemy hero phase, this model can automatically unbind 1 enemy spell (do not roll 2D6)."

That is two "abilities" within one ability. One provides him the ability to do something in his own hero phase, and something in the enemy's.

In situations where the two sentences are related, then it has to say something like "in that way" or "that unit". Sevireth "Living Cyclone" is an example of that.

Usually, GW starts the sentence with "In addition", when they are not related, but not always. It would have saved us this argument if they had though.

Lone Agent is no different. One part says he can deploy >3" away from an enemy, another says he can take control of an objective if he is setup within 6" of an empty objective.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Rune
additional info

[Rune]

2 hours ago, adboyslim said:

Has anyone played enough game with shrine to discuss about it? I used it 3 times and I don't know what to think about it.

I'm not sure it worth to keep a guardian. Ok, re-rolling 1 for sentinels is valuable but it was almost the only impact my guardian had on the game because he was too far from action.

On some scenario we can set it at 6' from set-up zone (still in our territory) so in that case the hero will be quite close to fights, but I think it is very hard to protect him then.

I think next time I'll just put one hero inside T1 to benefit of free CA on sentinels, and large re-roll for cast on T2 and will move him out of garrisoning on T2. What do you think?

In none of the games I have had I have garrisoned a hero within it. I would only really do that vs 1-drop shootcast or vs OBR catapults. 

As you say it limits the movement of your hero, and to be the benefit is not great enough. If you run a loreseeker, I would deploy the shrine where you expect to use the loreseeker, so he can benefit from the re-roll casting/unbinding.

[Sivyre]

3 hours ago, adboyslim said:

I only used Sevireth once and I was really happy about what he did.

Because you have some experience regardless that it is limited, would you say that severith was worth the 300 points to be included in a list, or do you feel his points cost would find more value else where?

[Maogrim]

Hey guys, would really love some ideas here...

So, as some of you might have read, I really like Ymetrica lore- and colour-wise (though I'm switching blue for turqoise) and the whole Alarith theme, even though they might not be super competitive. I'm not planning to got to tournaments anyway. Now what I also really like is the Archmage himself, the God of Magic...

Is there away to combine Teclis and an Alarith Mountain Temple battalion in a halfway decent list? Would like to run 20 Stoneguard, but how should I fill up the rest of the points?

[Sivyre]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

Is there away to combine Teclis and an Alarith Mountain Temple battalion in a halfway decent list? Would like to run 20 Stoneguard, but how should I fill up the rest of the points?

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Syar
Archmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh(660)
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Goading Arrogance  
- Artefact: The Perfect Blade  
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Lambent Light
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
Alarith Temple (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

something like this might be a good start for you to work with which meets your criteria.

on the table your probably looking to have 2 blocks consisting of stone guards on the front with wardens in the rear utilizing their 3” range with support from the 30 sentinels.
 

Just know battlelines are weak for objectives so it’s imperative you keep the wardens alive.

all in all this may meet your aim or with minor changes to suit your likes/needs more so.

mind you if you’re trying to go with ymetrica as the great nation I just feel syar proves more valuable vs the passive -2 rend. Up to you what you want and the list above may spark some creativity as it is essentially a good start state for you and the list you may come up with.

The ymetrica great nation had the advantage of making all your units battle line which will help play the objectives.

let me know what you come up with, I am quite curious.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Sivyre

[Maogrim]

2 hours ago, Sivyre said:

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Syar
Archmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh(660)
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Goading Arrogance  
- Artefact: The Perfect Blade  
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Lambent Light
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
Alarith Temple (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

something like this might be a good start for you to work with which meets your criteria.

on the table your probably looking to have 2 blocks consisting of stone guards on the front with wardens in the rear utilizing their 3” range with support from the 30 sentinels.
 

Just know battlelines are weak for objectives so it’s imperative you keep the wardens alive.

all in all this may meet your aim or with minor changes to suit your likes/needs more so.

mind you if you’re trying to go with ymetrica as the great nation I just feel syar proves more valuable vs the passive -2 rend. Up to you what you want and the list above may spark some creativity as it is essentially a good start state for you and the list you may come up with.

The ymetrica great nation had the advantage of making all your units battle line which will help play the objectives.

let me know what you come up with, I am quite curious.

Hey, thank you so much for the input.

Sadly this doesn't meet the requirements for the Alarith batallion, since you need to field a Stone Mage and a Mountain Spirit / Avalenor. 

Meaning the 120 points for the Batallion in your list are free and could be used for something else, but you also wouldn't get to reroll the safes. 

 

[Sivyre]

44 minutes ago, Maogrim said:

Hey, thank you so much for the input.

Sadly this doesn't meet the requirements for the Alarith batallion, since you need to field a Stone Mage and a Mountain Spirit / Avalenor. 

Meaning the 120 points for the Batallion in your list are free and could be used for something else, but you also wouldn't get to reroll the safes. 

 

You are absolutely correct, I was absent minded when drafting a list initially and had removed avalenor and the stone mage because the list looked weak IMO, as so many points were in leaders. (1150, retrospectively 1270 with alarith temple and before stoneguard) I ended up removing them and forgot to remove the battalion.  

Edited May 19, 2021 by Sivyre
Spelling/grammar

[Maogrim]

1 hour ago, Sivyre said:

You are absolutely correct, I was absent minded when drafting a list initially and had removed avalenor and the stone mage because the list looked weak IMO, as so many points were in leaders. (1150, retrospectively 1270 with alarith temple and before stoneguard) I ended up removing them and forgot to remove the battalion.  

Fair, since too many points in leaders was what I mentioned for your Ymetrica list with Avalenor and Sevireth. 😅 

But I was going to go with the regular Mountain Spirit so it'd be only 790 points in leaders. 

The Mountain Temple would be 990 points (Spirit, Mage, 2×10 Guard, Batallion), plus Teclis for 660. That's 1650 points, so just 350 left for troops. Sounds sketchy, right?

[adboyslim]

10 hours ago, Rune said:

In situations where the two sentences are related, then it has to say something like "in that way" or "that unit". Sevireth "Living Cyclone" is an example of that.

Yes you are right. There are some examples where there are multiple rules in one ability. But as you said there are using words like « moreover ». Maybe I’m wrong for the loreseeker. We’ll see. 
 

 

10 hours ago, Rune said:

If you run a loreseeker, I would deploy the shrine where you expect to use the loreseeker, so he can benefit from the re-roll casting/unbinding

It means you have to setup the shrine in your territory with 12’ of the loreseeker who will be in ennemy territory so don’t apply to any scenario.  But why not! I guess I’ll keep it on my side to send Total Eclipse or stabilize other spells. But thanks for your input. We are agree it don’t worth to garrison it. 
 

 

9 hours ago, Sivyre said:

Because you have some experience regardless that it is limited, would you say that severith was worth the 300 points to be included in a list

Very limited experience as you said. May be other players will have different point of view. But I’ll surely use it again. Because he handled more than 450 points on his own. 

[Sivyre]

1 hour ago, Maogrim said:

The Mountain Temple would be 990 points (Spirit, Mage, 2×10 Guard, Batallion), plus Teclis for 660. That's 1650 points, so just 350 left for troops. Sounds sketchy, right?

It definitely doesn’t leave much room to play with, kind of the situation I was in trying to fit in severith but in your case 350 points can at least fit in 20 sentinels leaving 70 points for umbral spell portal for teclis’ solar, simoon, etc which could prove useful, but this could prove dangerous knowing you have only a few battle lines to play on objectives so it would require some care. This would also require splitting the stoneguard into 1 x 10 and 2 x 5 to meet the 3 battleline requirement which to me doesn’t sound ideal or breaking the sentinels down to 1 x 10 for 10 wardens weakens your shooting but is an option to keep to blocks of 10 stoneguards.

This is the issue with teclis, you build the list around him and the alarith temple requirements will not make it easy 😅

Edited May 19, 2021 by Sivyre

[Rune]

1 hour ago, adboyslim said:

It means you have to setup the shrine in your territory with 12’ of the loreseeker who will be in ennemy territory so don’t apply to any scenario.  But why not! I guess I’ll keep it on my side to send Total Eclipse or stabilize other spells. But thanks for your input. We are agree it don’t worth to garrison it. 

Shrine doesn't have to be setup in your deployment zone, just in your territory. Loreseeker doesn't have to be setup in your enemy territory, just not your own territory. So it will always be possible, even easy, to get the Loreseeker within 12" of the shrine.

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

@adboyslim I've taken one in the TTS game I'm doing against Seraphon, (had 100 points left which I thought I might as well use on a Calligrave to cast Total Eclipse so I garrisoned him in that), but haven't got very far into the game yet, will report back if anything else interesting happens. When you say re-rolling one for sentinels are you talking about re-rolling the Power of Hysh spell with them or something? The warscroll says only heroes within 12" can use the re-roll ability

Unrelated Lumineth noob questions if anyone can help:

1) What are the Vanari/Scinari/Alarith/Hurakan Command Traits and artifacts on p 84-7 of the army book for? Because the Great Nation allegiances replace your general's command traits and artefact with nation-specific ones, is the only way to choose from the generic ones to either forgo choosing a great nation or taking a battalion so you get an extra artefact to give to a different hero?

2) Aside from reducing number of drops, is there ever any benefit to taking multiple starshard ballistas as a single unit intead of just having each one as a separate unit? Seems like having a unit of 2-3 grouped together would just increase potential of damage overspill and reduce the number of times you can use blinding bolts in a battle (I know ballistas are less cost-effective than sentinels anyway, I just like the models and would rather have a variety of stuff to paint)

3) Do Ellania and Ellathor only generate a command point for a general on a 4+ if they are allied into a non-Lumineth order army?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Jefferson Skarsnik

[woolf]

1 hour ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

@adboyslim I've taken one in the TTS game I'm doing against Seraphon, (had 100 points left which I thought I might as well use on a Calligrave to cast Total Eclipse so I garrisoned him in that), but haven't got very far into the game yet, will report back if anything else interesting happens. When you say re-rolling one for sentinels are you talking about re-rolling the Power of Hysh spell with them or something? The warscroll says only heroes within 12" can use the re-roll ability

Unrelated Lumineth noob questions if anyone can help:

1) What are the Vanari/Scinari/Alarith/Hurakan Command Traits and artifacts on p 84-7 of the army book for? Because the Great Nation allegiances replace your general's command traits and artefact with nation-specific ones, is the only way to choose from the generic ones to either forgo choosing a great nation or taking a battalion so you get an extra artefact to give to a different hero?

2) Aside from reducing number of drops, is there ever any benefit to taking multiple starshard ballistas as a single unit intead of just having each one as a separate unit? Seems like having a unit of 2-3 grouped together would just increase potential of damage overspill and reduce the number of times you can use blinding bolts in a battle (I know ballistas are less cost-effective than sentinels anyway, I just like the models and would rather have a variety of stuff to paint)

3) Do Ellania and Ellathor only generate a command point for a general on a 4+ if they are allied into a non-Lumineth order army?

1) yes like you say, either don't pick a nation or take a battalion for extra one. also I think illiatha does not force a cmd trait

2) min/max for those is one so you cant actually take multiples in one unit

3) no it always works, requirement is just to keep them close to your general 

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Thanks. I wasn't looking at the pitched battle profiles. What do the warscroll cards that say "a unit of x has any number of models" (as the ballista does) mean in that case?

[Stormy1486]

So after determining that lumineth is probably one of the most stable armies to transfer to AoS 3.0, I'm looking for advice for combining random models into a list that won't get bulldozed all the time but contains lots of models that I want.

The core of the list will likely be:

Avenelor and Svirareth OR teclis

20 wardens

20 sentinels

I then run into trouble.

I love the Vanari lord model and his support for wardens and sentinels without teclis.

I love the stone and wind mage and understand they both are amazing with their respective special character (avenelor and Svirareth).

I really want some bladelords but understand they only had a purpose with a character to protect and I understand a calthar are really valuable.

I assume that I am lacking bodies on the board.

Does the following work.

Avaenlor

Sviareth

Cathalar

Reagent lord

Wind OR stonemage

5 bladelords

20 sentinels

20 wardens

Then 10 more wardens and/or 10 sentinels? Am i lacking too much speed? I'm not 100% keen on 30 wardens and 30 sentinels. Do I need some dawnriders? Can windchargers work in groups of five without their respective nation?

[woolf]

11 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Thanks. I wasn't looking at the pitched battle profiles. What do the warscroll cards that say "a unit of x has any number of models" (as the ballista does) mean in that case?

haha that is a good question.... I can only speculate in that its some standard writing from GW side, there are quite a few things like that in this game that are quite confusing, in particular to new players (at least it was to me when I first started this game)

[adboyslim]

17 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

The warscroll says only heroes within 12" can use the re-roll ability

Ho yes. Very well spot. I thought it was for any wizard!

let me know what do you think when you finished your game please 😉 and yes I think Calligrave is the only hero that can garrison!

[Tizianolol]

Guys i have a problem with twinstones endless spell. How that work? When every spell i cast with twinstones near , give +1 ( for spell casted) or +2 ( spell casted and resolved) ? Thx all!!:)

[Sivyre]

20 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys i have a problem with twinstones endless spell. How that work? When every spell i cast with twinstones near , give +1 ( for spell casted) or +2 ( spell casted and resolved) ? Thx all!!:)

When a LRL wizard with 12” of the twinstones casts a spell that wizard may add to their spell cast by taking from the twinstones, once the spell is resolved reset the dice of the twinstones to 1, add +1 (1 because you used it, +1 because of the successful spell cast)

casting a spell does not increase the twinstones dice value, only successful spell casts add +1 to its total dice count, if you cast a spell and that spell is unbound do not increase the dice value.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Sivyre

[Tizianolol]

Ok thx , so if I cast i risolve the spell i got +1, if opponent dispell it, i got +0 . Thx a lot!!!!!

[adboyslim]

17 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Ok thx , so if I cast i risolve the spell i got +1, if opponent dispell it, i got +0 . Thx a lot!!!!!

Nope. The minimum value is 1. You should really read the Lumineth FAQ. The sequence is perfectly explained. 😉

[Koradrel of Chrace]

So I mentioned this in the Rumor thread, but this is a bit more specific for the Lumineth thread.  With the game narrative shifting toward Ghur, it looks like there are some characters popping up in each new Battletome with ties to Ghur (the new Mother of Nightmares being an example).  For our character, Lyrior is said to have had his family killed by a Waaaghh! of orruks.  Anyone think he might go off to Ghur to get a fun spot of vengeance?

[Maogrim]

39 minutes ago, Koradrel of Chrace said:

So I mentioned this in the Rumor thread, but this is a bit more specific for the Lumineth thread.  With the game narrative shifting toward Ghur, it looks like there are some characters popping up in each new Battletome with ties to Ghur (the new Mother of Nightmares being an example).  For our character, Lyrior is said to have had his family killed by a Waaaghh! of orruks.  Anyone think he might go off to Ghur to get a fun spot of vengeance?

Hard to say with certainty, but after being so promimently featured in BR: Teclis I think Lumineth will sit back a little. Plus I think their imvolvement will focus on Malerion and the Daughters. 

[HanShot First]

Just a quick question, was The End of Enlightenment any good? Going on vacation and was going to pick up a book to read during it.

[woolf]

Guys what would be your thoughts on the following:

Leaders: Wind mage (teleport), Lord regent (protection), Cathallar (eclipse), Sevireth

Battleline: 30x Warden (lambent), 20 Warden (lambent), 20 Sentinel (ethereal), 10 Sentinel (ethereal)

Other: 5x Dawnriders (speed), 1 Akhelian Allopex

Spells: Twinstones

 

Idea was to execute something like this:

Cathallar cast Twinstone, big sentinels power up, LR Greater power of hysh on big warden block and small sentinels (if he only gets 1 then small sentinel sacrifice their power up), small sentinel cast ethereal on big warden. Then Windmage teleport big warden unit forward, they cast lambent light on <insert key target>. Shooting opens up and hopefully delete something important. So by end of this you have stuck 30 ethereal wardens in shining company in the face of opponent + taken out something fairly important. Windmage then position to basically do the same next round with smaller warden block.

To not rely on getting 2x greater power of hysh you could use an aetherquarts on the sentinels although ofc need to be declared up front so I guess depending on risk appetite..

Lord regent later can try to get protection up and run around as a bit of a shield beacon.

Seiverth and Allopex (the shark was a bit of gapfill, maybe something better there?) are there to harrass and mess with opponent pile ins, and together with Dawnriders to either buy time by acting road block or for late game snatching objectives

 

Any thoughts very welcome!