Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Yondaime]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Tried some things since faqs.

Rip loreseeker, is not worth 160 points anymore. Sevireth is in the top of our units and the twins were good, now better.

The redeploy resetting shinning is just too good to ignore it.

tbf it was stated clear that the loreaseaker was unique, and unique=named its written in the tome, but i get he needed a faq since so many people were confused

 

About the redeploy yes, but i just hate the fact that our good spells have a insane high cast, so the twinstone are a tax

[adboyslim]

39 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

About the redeploy yes, but i just hate the fact that our good spells have a insane high cast, so the twinstone are a tax

Yes you are right. We are lucky it is only 30. But 8 is not so high with Zaitrec or 1/2 aetherquartz or reroll from the shrine or from Helon ability, or with deep thinker.

[Ragest]

1 hour ago, Yondaime said:

tbf it was stated clear that the loreaseaker was unique, and unique=named its written in the tome, but i get he needed a faq since so many people were confused

 

About the redeploy yes, but i just hate the fact that our good spells have a insane high cast, so the twinstone are a tax

Well, we can’t say anything about that because we have tons of utility with such ridiculous CV like Power/Speed of hysh, ethereal or lambent

Edited May 12, 2021 by Ragest

[Icarion]

The he last we heard about Tyrion was from BR: Teclis saying that he is fighting a threat greater than Nagash, and that he was last seen heading for the Pit of Cathartia.

In the new Broken Realms fiction, we now now have more information.

In a great conversation between Morathi and Malerion, they discuss the events of Broken Realms and Malerion mentions that:

Quote

They will be brought to heel. But the Twins have become emboldened by the victory of light over death. The blind one tests my borders as we speak.’

‘Vicariously, at least.’

‘For now,’ said the shade. ‘The Hyshians are seekers, always probing, always shining light where it is not wanted. If the Lords of Lumination find a stable path through Cathartia before we are in full control, the shroud will soon tear, and our entire notion of supremacy will be at risk.’

So looks like Tyrion is indeed trying to make his way into Ulgu, whether to go after Malerion, or something else is unclear. They do also say you do not send a child to slay a drake, but its unclear if that is directly referring to Tyrion and Malerion, or something else entirely.

Interestingly, Malerion seems to want to make peace, as he recovered a Spirit of the mountain mask from the battles in Shyish and seeks to return it to the lumineth to try and reopen negations. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Athrawes

[HanShot First]

2 hours ago, Athrawes said:

The he last we heard about Tyrion was from BR: Teclis saying that he is fighting a threat greater than Nagash, and that he was last seen heading for the Pit of Cathartia.

In the new Broken Realms fiction, we now now have more information.

In a great conversation between Morathi and Malerion, they discuss the events of Broken Realms and Malerion mentions that:

So looks like Tyrion is indeed trying to make his way into Ulgu, whether to go after Malerion, or something else is unclear. They do also say you do not send a child to slay a drake, but its unclear if that is directly referring to Tyrion and Malerion, or something else entirely.

Interestingly, Malerion seems to want to make peace, as he recovered a Spirit of the mountain mask from the battles in Shyish and seeks to return it to the lumineth to try and reopen negations. 

So lumineth vs shadow elves box set?

[Koradrel of Chrace]

@Athrawes Having read the story now, it sounds as though they are setting Tyriona and Malerion up in opposition of each other.  Even the offering for negotiations that Malerion mentions sounds more like a stalling tactic to prevent Tyrion and Teclis from delving too deeply into whatever he is planning with Morathi.  On the one hand, I do think it's interesting that they kind of imply that only Tyrion can stop Malerion, since some of Teclis' followers also secretly follow Malerion.  On the other hand, this is kind of a bummer in that we've seen their fight several times before.  I found their strained truce to contain Slaanesh to be a more compelling narrative.  I think it would have been interesting to then add another threat that force Malerion and Tyrion to continue their uneasy alliance.

I suppose the silver lining to all of this is that if the rumors are true, Malerion's faction will be showing up in the not far future, and when they do, Tyrion will be there to stop them!

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

If they did fight it would have to be in a neutral realm because one can't exist in Ulgu and the other can't exist in Hysh right?

That or they'll be kind of force ghost avatars of themselves or whatever

 

[Koradrel of Chrace]

@Jefferson Skarsnik That's what we've been told, but the Pit of Cathartia is a unique bridge between the two Realms.  If Tyrion could find a safe path through, it would probably shift the balance of power toward Hysh, while also disrupting Malerion's plans.  I could see Ellathor and Ellania being Tyrion and Teclis' proxies if they still can't physically pass through.

That said, I would totally be down for Tyrion being shown as a blind Jedi Blademaster!

[Jefferson Skarsnik]

Yeah, I'm sure GW's current approach necessitates him riding some enormously elaborate sun-spirit mount when he turns up as an actual model, but I'd love for Tyrion to just be a Sigvald-style elegant duelist type model striding across a scenic base

Also repeating my earlier call for him to be buddies with a flaming suit of Dragon Prince armour called the Embers of Imrik

[Yondaime]

10 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Yeah, I'm sure GW's current approach necessitates him riding some enormously elaborate sun-spirit mount when he turns up as an actual model, but I'd love for Tyrion to just be a Sigvald-style elegant duelist type model striding across a scenic base

Also repeating my earlier call for him to be buddies with a flaming suit of Dragon Prince armour called the Embers of Imrik

a model on foot would not give him justice, after all is a god tier model

Me and my buddyes have two theoryes

-He will ride the ur-phoenix, the phoenix god that the phoenicium revers, for two reasons, he is referred as the phoenix king, and the bannerblade has a phoenix symbol on it

-he will ride malhandir or some mutation of it (because its his iconic mount)

probally he will also keep something like the heart of avalenor (prob extra save+ respaw), the sword, and the armor of aenerion

honestly i hope in an archon like model, i find teclis a bit underwelming for my playstyle, i want an absolute beatstick that dosnt fear melee and rip and tears everything stupid enough to be on his path for the glory of the carnage

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Yondaime

[Yondaime]

10 hours ago, Jefferson Skarsnik said:

Yeah, I'm sure GW's current approach necessitates him riding some enormously elaborate sun-spirit mount when he turns up as an actual model, but I'd love for Tyrion to just be a Sigvald-style elegant duelist type model striding across a scenic base

Also repeating my earlier call for him to be buddies with a flaming suit of Dragon Prince armour called the Embers of Imrik

Yeah i really hope also caradryan and khorin gets the same treatment, they were two absoulte chad legends lorewise

[Tizianolol]

Guys a question. If for exemple during turn 3 i teleport my loreseeker to an objective without enemy near it, they have to kill him to take that objective? I mean  his Lone Agent ability work?:)

[Yondaime]

9 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys a question. If for exemple during turn 3 i teleport my loreseeker to an objective without enemy near it, they have to kill him to take that objective? I mean  his Lone Agent ability work?:)

Yes, since the loreseaker warscroll state that it controls the objective when he is deployed on it, and the teleport is a deploy spell 

[Tizianolol]

Ok thx a lot!! Loreseeker is so mutch better i thought!

[LuminethMage]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:30 PM, Maogrim said:

I guess "Maori" would be me?! 😅

Sorry, yup : ). I meant you, hopefully the list helped : ) 

[Andalf]

.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Andalf

[LuminethMage]

On 5/12/2021 at 6:05 PM, Yondaime said:

i agree with some of the points but:

-as we already discussed, i never saw a ymetrica list that wasnt teclis+stoneguard (with 0 sentinels, the main reason we are so strong)

-tbh lumineth are not doing so well, if i recall correctly, and correct me if i am mistaken, only 1 lumineth won a tournament since theyr release, and no major tournament won in the recent months. Ko/tzeech/seraphon are too much 

honestly, i never liked the teclis+sentinel, and i get why is scoring so well, and if you want to be top competitive, maybe its the easiest choice, but i find it lacks balance and fun

 

Sure ill' be happy to share

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Ymetrica

Leaders
Avalenor, the Stoneheart King (360)
Alarith Stonemage (130)
- Artefact: Mountain's Gift
- Lore of the High Peaks: Voice of the Mountain
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- Artefact: Silver Wand
- Lore of Hysh: Lambent Light

Battleline
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
10 x Alarith Stoneguard (200)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Alarith Stoneguard (100)
- Stone Mallets
5 x Vanari Bladelords (120)

Units
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh

Battalions
Alarith Temple (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
 

I am still working on it since i am trying a lot all the new units, but lets say this is the most solid one.

You have to be REALLY carefull with the positiong, no seriusly, one mistake and most likely you will lose all you buff ad its game over

here some pros/cons, so you get the idea

+stoneguard are a wall of briks (potentially 3+ rerolled ignoring rend, means they will not die) and actually HIT like a ton of briks (+1 (3) attack with cp, -2 rend, 2 damage on 6), remember, they are one of the few that has -2 rend

+Avalenor its an absolute beast, and the -1 to hit (-2 to sentinels) its a big deal, also, near a a stonemage he ignores the wound table

+stonemage+cathallar is a really strong combo, voice of the mountain+cathallr spell can ruin someone day, remember you can give quartz to an enemy model for a total -3 bravery, it means that a heartguard zerker on a 6+ ****** his pants and dosnt do anything

+Sentinel snipe (tbh its the main reason lumineth can perform well)

Cons

-Weak to MW (but tbf all lumineth are, unless you pay 660 for teclis, and if you second you dont have it)

-Slow, and thats the reason sentinels have SoH, use the quartz for the extra cast so you dont lose the 5+ MW, but you have to use it at the right moment or you'll waste the quartz and lose damage the next time you want to cast it

-Positioning, keeeping the stoneguard wholly 12 from avalenor or stonemage is not that hard, but you also have to watch the cathallar, keep avalenor 12 from the stonemage for the wound table, with some training youll get used to it tho

 

 

Again dont exept to go 5/0 in a tournament (but again, even with the most tryhard list is hard), but it can be a lot of fun, and can even surprise some time

There have been around 7 larger tournament wins by Lumineth players, none of them with Ymetrica I think. Syar does well. In all the statistics I see it’s in the borderline OP category (high 50s). All of our other nations don’t perform well, that’s what’s dragging down our overall win rate. We don’t have enough data with the new units and nations of course, and everything will change in two month anyway. 

Even your list might overall perform better in Syar than in Ymetrica (better artifact, more juice for everyone vs. partial better protection in a niche case (lots of -2 rend)). Think about it, almost nothing that you state above is due to/needs Ymetrica, except in cases you face someone with a lot of -2 rend. Whereas you mention the usefulness of quartz twice yourself. Ymetrica is sadly just not that well designed, because the abilities only apply to a small group of Warscrolls and the best bonus you get is only helpful in niche cases. Almost half the units in your list don’t profit from being in Ymetrica. Where’s double Aetherquartz ... . 

But it’s great that you have list that does well for you with the playstyle you like. It looks more interesting than another version of Teclis + Auralan battalion for sure. 

All the rest I agree. Again it’s was just a question about what’s competitive, and any of the statistics I have seen, Ymetrica was at the bottom (either upper 30s or lower 40s) of our four nation choices (with Iliatha not counting because almost no one seems to have played it in tournaments so far). It’s not about dissuading people from playing what they want. I play a weird, mostly mages lists myself. 

[Koradrel of Chrace]

There's also an idea that's been floating around that several of our rules seem janky because our book was written to be future proof with 3E in mind.  We could see a dramatic upheaval in the new edition.  I stick to my previous advice, now is a time to enjoy the hobby aspect with the models you like, because we'll be going back to the drawing board for list building when 3E drops.

I actually kinda feel bad for the new Gravelords book.  They're almost better just waiting the next month or so before collecting to get a better idea of how things are going to shift.

[LuminethMage]

Yeah, until the Soulblight FAQ drops we’re likely only a few weeks away from AoS3. 

[chosen_of_khaine]

I don't think AoS 3 is going to put lumineth lists "back to the drawing board", as units will fill basically the same roles - wardens and sentinels will still form the backbone of most lists, just the proportion of them might change and units with unique roles (ie, wind temple units) might go up or down in value.

Edited May 15, 2021 by chosen_of_khaine

[adboyslim]

On 5/14/2021 at 12:06 AM, Tizianolol said:

I mean  his Lone Agent ability work?:)

 

On 5/14/2021 at 9:31 AM, Yondaime said:

Yes, since the loreseaker warscroll state that it controls the objective when he is deployed on it, and the teleport is a deploy spell 

Nope and nope. 😅 the lone agent rule begins with « instead of setting this model... if you do it at the beginning of the first round... ». You take the objective only using the lone agent rule. Not otherwise! (Sorry J only have the French version so don’t know the exact term. But it is pretty clear. 

[adboyslim]

Guys I think you are dreaming. 😉They will never  add Tyrion, the river and zenith temple (with heavy cavalry, chariot, eagles, Phoenix, helberds and new heroes and units) into the already huge set of units we have. I hope I’m wrong. But I really think they will do either splitting with 2 separate BT like Morathi/Malerion or make the lore making him ally with Malerion. 

[Koradrel of Chrace]

If Tyrion gets his own army I will jump on that so hard I will wind up singlehandedly raising GW's stockprice!

[Chumphammer]

10 hours ago, adboyslim said:

Guys I think you are dreaming. 😉They will never  add Tyrion, the river and zenith temple (with heavy cavalry, chariot, eagles, Phoenix, helberds and new heroes and units) into the already huge set of units we have. I hope I’m wrong. But I really think they will do either splitting with 2 separate BT like Morathi/Malerion or make the lore making him ally with Malerion. 

Have you seen the stormcast range....

[Yondaime]

15 hours ago, adboyslim said:

 

Nope and nope. 😅 the lone agent rule begins with « instead of setting this model... if you do it at the beginning of the first round... ». You take the objective only using the lone agent rule. Not otherwise! (Sorry J only have the French version so don’t know the exact term. But it is pretty clear. 

English version: If you set up this model within 6" of an objective that has no enemy units within 6" of it, you gain control of that objective, and your opponent cannot gain control of it while this model is within 6" of it.

Transporting vortex: Remove that unit from the battlefield and set it up again anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from any enemy units. 

its pretty clear to me it does

there is a period between the lone agent deep strike ability and the objective control ability so those are two different things

It’s like the shining company redeploy

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Yondaime