Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Siegfried VII]

22 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

So, coming up with some fun tactics; I could see some Ballistas being great in an Alumnia army, where a unit of Wardens or Dawnriders break their shining company to run, ballista shoots a unit with their blinding bolts, then that unit who ran uses the CA to charge after running. They can cover a good amount of ground, still get -1 to hit them and they’ve charged to go first. This may be additionally good if you have Dawnriders going in (being faster than wardens) then having the Wardens break shining company formation to run and charge to keep up with the Dawnriders to then also make use of attacking with 2 units before the enemy get to. 

 I also think the ballistas will get some use due to their "disrupt shot" rule, because otherwise Sentinels remain the superior choice in terms of damage. To be fair though they have the benefit that they do not need power of hysh to go of to be at their best performance, because if the sentinels fail their power of hysh their damage output becomes almost negligible..

[Tiberius501]

I agree. Also the addition of hitting on 2’s when within 24” of a hero who’s within 24” of an enemy is quite nice and a pretty forgiving range. That, and the slightly more consistent dmg output (without needing a spell), and also their once a battle -1 to hit to cover charging units, means I reckon they’re quite handy. I’ll have to see how they actually play though. I’m sure in tournaments more sentinels is the way to go, but I don’t think Ballistas are far off, and are also a little easier to slot in to lists at 100pts.

[Siegfried VII]

4 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I agree. Also the addition of hitting on 2’s when within 24” of a hero who’s within 24” of an enemy is quite nice and a pretty forgiving range. That, and the slightly more consistent dmg output (without needing a spell), and also their once a battle -1 to hit to cover charging units, means I reckon they’re quite handy. I’ll have to see how they actually play though. I’m sure in tournaments more sentinels is the way to go, but I don’t think Ballistas are far off, and are also a little easier to slot in to lists at 100pts.

I don't think the battalion is need after much thought unless you would use a Calligrave anyway on you list and want the extra artifact/commad point..

If you just use 3 of them on their own it will be just 20pts more than 20 Sentinels and you 'll get the -1 to hit ability 3 times and be able to spread them in the your deployment zone to prevent pesky teleports and deep strikes while your army goes forward to do the good work!

[umpac]

40 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

 I also think the ballistas will get some use due to their "disrupt shot" rule, because otherwise Sentinels remain the superior choice in terms of damage. To be fair though they have the benefit that they do not need power of hysh to go of to be at their best performance, because if the sentinels fail their power of hysh their damage output becomes almost negligible..

Ballistas outside of the battalion deals less damage than a unit of unbuffed Sentinels to all save values even with Hawk buff, so ballistas damage is even more negligible. In the battalion they deal slightly more dmg than unbuffed but still less than buffed sentinels. If you take them it is, as you say, purely for the -1 to hit but then you might as well just take Geminids.

[Tiberius501]

1 minute ago, umpac said:

Ballistas outside of the battalion deals less damage than a unit of unbuffed Sentinels to all save values even with Hawk buff, so ballistas damage is even more negligible. In the battalion they deal slightly more dmg than unbuffed but still less than buffed sentinels. If you take them it is, as you say, purely for the -1 to hit but then you might as well just take Geminids.

Is this taking into account the +1 shot when standing still and 2+ to hit when within range of a hero who’s in range of the enemy?

[umpac]

1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

Is this taking into account the +1 shot when standing still and 2+ to hit when within range of a hero who’s in range of the enemy?

The +1 A is from the battalion (or am I wrong?), so it works out like this:

10 Buffed Sentinels > Ballista in battalion and hawk > 10 unbuffed sentinels > Ballistas with hawk

[Siegfried VII]

12 minutes ago, umpac said:

Ballistas outside of the battalion deals less damage than a unit of unbuffed Sentinels to all save values even with Hawk buff, so ballistas damage is even more negligible. In the battalion they deal slightly more dmg than unbuffed but still less than buffed sentinels. If you take them it is, as you say, purely for the -1 to hit but then you might as well just take Geminids.

Sorry mate but the math say otherwise..

x20 Sentinels with power do hysh do 7,13 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x20 Sentinels without power of hysh do 4,75 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x3 Ballistas without moving with the +1 to hit from hero do 8,33 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x3 Ballistas that have moved with the +1 to hit from hero do 5,56 damage on a 4+ save unit.

So all in all the ballistas do more damage. The advantage of the Sentinels lies in the no line of sight needing ability they have and the fact they can circumvent the penalties on to hit..

Also the ballistas do not need the battalion for their +1 attack ability. They have it on their warscroll. The battalion just makes the ward save 5+

Edited March 28, 2021 by Siegfried VII

[umpac]

4 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

Sorry mate but the math do not agree with you.

x20 Sentinels with power fo hysh do 7,13 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x20 Sentinels without power of hysh do 4,75 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x3 Ballistas without moving with the +1 from hero do 8,33 damage on a 4+ save unit.

x3 Ballistas that have moved with the +1 from hero do 5,56 damage on a 4+ save unit.

So all in all the ballistas do more damage. The advantage of the Sentinels lies in the no line of sight needing ability they have and the fact they can circumvent the penalties on to hit..

Also the ballistas do not need the battalion for the +1 ability. They have it on their warscroll. The battalion just makes the ward save 5+

Yeah I was comparing 10 sentinels vs 1 ballista. 20 vs 3 is a more fair comparison in terms of points (but less so with battalion). They don't have it on their WS, its from the battalion, just looked it up. The battalion is 120 points too so it jacks up the cost of your ballistas to the same as 30 Sentinels.

Edited March 28, 2021 by umpac

[Siegfried VII]

1 minute ago, umpac said:

Yeah I was comparing 10 sentinels vs 1 ballista. 20 vs 3 is a more fair comparison in terms of points (but less so with battalion). They don't have it on their WS, its from the battalion, just looked it up.

No mate, look at the warscroll of the ballista again. On the ability warding lanterns. It says they get +1 attack if they haven't moved. The battalion just replace the same ability with the difference that if the ballista is within 3 inches on another ballista the ward save is 5+ instead of 6+..

[umpac]

2 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

No mate, look at the warscroll of the ballista again. On the ability warding lanterns. It says they get +1 attack if they haven't moved. The battalion just replace the same ability with the difference that if the ballista is within 3 inches on another ballista the ward save is 5+ instead of 6+..

Yeah you're right, thanks! Too tired to read it seems. Even so I much rather take Sentinels than ballistas but at least they aren't a straight upgrade.

[Siegfried VII]

3 minutes ago, umpac said:

Yeah you're right, thanks! Too tired to read it seems. Even so I much rather take Sentinels than ballistas but at least they aren't a straight upgrade.

As I said on a previous post the mainstream choice will remain Sentinels. Just as you said the difference is not that great and the ballistas can have other uses too me thinks.. 🙂 

Also If were to go for more shooting instead of a second unit of 20 sentinels, I would prefer to go for 3 ballistas for the extra utility myself!

Edited March 28, 2021 by Siegfried VII

[Diogenes]

You can also play the Balistas with a Lord Ordinator or Knight-Azyros in the new Cities of Sigmar. I am really looking forward to this.

Also a bunch of empowered endless spells are good fun for Teclis. Maybe even Emerald Lifeswarm is an option there.

Has anyone seen the full rules for Settlers Gain?

[Gargamel196]

16 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

From the way the core rules explain it, the Loreseeker should still be able to take artifacts despite being Unique. Named characters can't take artifacts or traits, but being Unique (1 per army) and being a named character are not the same thing. It's just unusual because until now, the only Unique characters in the game were also named characters. This may need to be addressed in the FAQ though, just to make sure everyone's on the same page.

Im afraid that Unique characters are also considered named character. No FAQ needed. Source is the text on the Pitched battle profile page. I just learned this yesterday when I was considering putting Blade of leaping gold on the Loreseeker. I hope its an error, but probably not. So still no Scinari combat hero to put the Blade on. 

[Tiberius501]

I was thinking about the Regent; is her spell really that useful? Affecting D3 units, if it only affects 1, won’t it just end up kinda wasted? Not wasted in a sense of it being useless, it’s still a good spell, but she’s wasted as a support hero because that unit could’ve just done their own and she could’ve done an aura spell instead like Protection of Hysh or something.

Knowing my rolls, it’ll pretty much just work as normal Power of Hysh for me haha.

EDIT: Also, would you guys send her into combat with Dawriders/when your Wardens get charged, or is she best kept behind your lines?

Edited March 28, 2021 by Tiberius501

[Aloth_Corfiser]

I will take a Regent just for the coolnes Factor and I guess it will be worth it. Just a General who can do a little bit of everything: Inspire, charge into the fray, cast a useful Spell, etc.

[Tiberius501]

It’s true, she’s quite awesome. I’m getting one regardless for the model. In Iliatha she can also take one of the 3 traits, I’m thinking the re-roll a dice or starting the game with 1 extra CP. 

[whispersofblood]

2 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

As I said on a previous post the mainstream choice will remain Sentinels. Just as you said the difference is not that great and the ballistas can have other uses too me thinks.. 🙂 

Also If were to go for more shooting instead of a second unit of 20 sentinels, I would prefer to go for 3 ballistas for the extra utility myself!

I think in the design of an army built for some aggression the combination will be 1 ballista + 20 Sentinels. The extra utility with the -1 to push combats in your direction is a very strong ability.

50 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I was thinking about the Regent; is her spell really that useful? Affecting D3 units, if it only affects 1, won’t it just end up kinda wasted? Not wasted in a sense of it being useless, it’s still a good spell, but she’s wasted as a support hero because that unit could’ve just done their own and she could’ve done an aura spell instead like Protection of Hysh or something.

Knowing my rolls, it’ll pretty much just work as normal Power of Hysh for me haha.

EDIT: Also, would you guys send her into combat with Dawriders/when your Wardens get charged, or is she best kept behind your lines?

I think it would be reasonable to plan for 2.  Which frees up two utility casts like Twinstones. Also being a hero helps in several missions for bonus points. Alternatively you can him the Regent cast Protection as a safe platform on a big base.

[GrimDork]

1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

I was thinking about the Regent; is her spell really that useful? Affecting D3 units, if it only affects 1, won’t it just end up kinda wasted? Not wasted in a sense of it being useless, it’s still a good spell, but she’s wasted as a support hero because that unit could’ve just done their own and she could’ve done an aura spell instead like Protection of Hysh or something.

Knowing my rolls, it’ll pretty much just work as normal Power of Hysh for me haha.

EDIT: Also, would you guys send her into combat with Dawriders/when your Wardens get charged, or is she best kept behind your lines?

Whilst it could end up with only 1 unit affected, I still think it's worth it for the potential of more. I love this spell, it had always bothered me a bit in LRL 1.0 that a unit couldn't PoH buff another unit. The utility in her spell, either gives you a backup for a unit if PoH is failed when you really needed it to go off, or the added efficiency of being able to use other unit casts for extra spells. Plus, units like the Bannerblade need it to get empowered. I suppose it's just an extra tool to have in the box.

Edited March 28, 2021 by GrimDork

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, Gargamel196 said:

Im afraid that Unique characters are also considered named character. No FAQ needed. Source is the text on the Pitched battle profile page. I just learned this yesterday when I was considering putting Blade of leaping gold on the Loreseeker. I hope its an error, but probably not. So still no Scinari combat hero to put the Blade on. 

The calligrave might get some use from it still, especially if he has some sword masters to keep him alive

[Jeremierty]

3 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

I agree. Also the addition of hitting on 2’s when within 24” of a hero who’s within 24” of an enemy is quite nice and a pretty forgiving range. That, and the slightly more consistent dmg output (without needing a spell), and also their once a battle -1 to hit to cover charging units, means I reckon they’re quite handy. I’ll have to see how they actually play though. I’m sure in tournaments more sentinels is the way to go, but I don’t think Ballistas are far off, and are also a little easier to slot in to lists at 100pts.

And it's not the same painting 2 ballistas vs 20 archers

[Tiberius501]

1 hour ago, GrimDork said:

Whilst it could end up with only 1 unit affected, I still think it's worth it for the potential of more. I love this spell, it had always bothered me a bit in LRL 1.0 that a unit couldn't PoH buff another unit. The utility in her spell, either gives you a backup for a unit if PoH is failed when you really needed it to go off, or the added efficiency of being able to use other unit casts for extra spells. Plus, units like the Bannerblade need it to get empowered. I suppose it's just an extra tool to have in the box.

This is very true, you’re right. I think having her behind 2 blocks of pikes will make a for a tasty battle line. 

[Ragest]

I'm seeing that to make a good use of Windrunners you need to charge (or pile n 6") with them along with a foxy, if not they are doomed, and going 2 foxes is so expensive that is hard to fit a good anvil until we want to use our Roos in melee.

I'm still testing btw

[Tiberius501]

1 hour ago, Jeremierty said:

And it's not the same painting 2 ballistas vs 20 archers

Yep haha this is a big reason why I’m getting 2 Ballistas instead of a second block of Sentinels 😆

[Tiberius501]

A unit of 20 Sentinels, or 2 units of 10? And a unit of 10 Dawnriders, or 2 units of 5?

[Kugane]

2 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Yep haha this is a big reason why I’m getting 2 Ballistas instead of a second block of Sentinels 😆

That extra 80 points can be quite useful as well XD.