Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Gistradagis]

I feel like Bladelords will make it or break it depending on points. Hoping/expecting them to be 2 wounds on a 4+ save, but their attacking profile feels moderately elite only. A maximum of 5 damage from your whole unit unless vs hordes is kinda weird. But if they aren't too expensive, I can see them in play.

[madmac]

2 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

I feel like Bladelords will make it or break it depending on points. Hoping/expecting them to be 2 wounds on a 4+ save, but their attacking profile feels moderately elite only. A maximum of 5 damage from your whole unit unless vs hordes is kinda weird. But if they aren't too expensive, I can see them in play.

I suspect they'll be 2 wounds on a 4+ at 100 points, maybe as high as 120 if GW thinks they're better than they are.

 I don't think they'll have any other notable defensive abilities aside from the 4+ vs spells. Maybe a small bonus vs ranged attacks as a throwback to the old Swordmasters but nothing else.

I can see it worth taking 5 of these guys in a lot of lists, I'm just sad because there's almost no way it's worth using large numbers of them because they're one of the best looking models in the range, and I'm always on the lookout for battleline options that aren't Wardens. (I like Wardens, I just don't want to deal with the long spears on the table)

[Acid_Nine]

I think I will be excited if the Bannerlord will buff our guys with a ward save or something, but I would be willing to run them in squads of ten. It seems like it could be a good hammer substitute if done well. I am ever optimistic, and bloody hell I want all the rules

[l1censetochill]

35 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

I play Stormcast in addition to Lumineth.

The negative reactions to my other favorite faction are giving me flashbacks to 2018 . . .

I'm just going to do what I did then: ignore the complaining and hang around the people who are as excited about the Aelves as I am, or are at least able to be happy for us that we're getting nice toys to play with!

Thanks for saying it, man, because I'm in the exact same boat (started with Stormcast, picked up Lumineth as a second army last year). I just picked up armies based on how cool I think the models look, and now every time I check out an AOS community it's nothing but constant complaining about the factions I play. It's so tiresome. I already said my piece in the Rumor thread, and since the mods seem to have no interest in curbing the toxicity I think I'm chilling here for the foreseeable future.

The real bummer is that all of the screeching from keyboard warriors (many of whom don't even play the game) trickles into the whole AOS scene, so when you show up to play a casual game at your LGS there's a good chance you'll have to spend the whole game listening to your opponent moan about how OP your army is (even when you take fluffy lists or get completely blown out). It can be really disheartening.

Well, whatever. I'll be running 5 or 10 of the Swordmasters because I like the models and want to paint them, regardless of whether they suck or they're OP as all hell. Here's hoping they get some fun additional abilities/synergies to go along with the stuff we've already seen.

[Gistradagis]

19 minutes ago, madmac said:

I suspect they'll be 2 wounds on a 4+ at 100 points, maybe as high as 120 if GW thinks they're better than they are.

 I don't think they'll have any other notable defensive abilities aside from the 4+ vs spells. Maybe a small bonus vs ranged attacks as a throwback to the old Swordmasters but nothing else.

I can see it worth taking 5 of these guys in a lot of lists, I'm just sad because there's almost no way it's worth using large numbers of them because they're one of the best looking models in the range, and I'm always on the lookout for battleline options that aren't Wardens. (I like Wardens, I just don't want to deal with the long spears on the table)

At 100 points they'd be quite amazing, I think. While not an insane unit except vs hordes, it still feels very reliable. If it's anything less than 120, it feels like an auto-include.

[Tiberius501]

2 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

At 100 points they'd be quite amazing, I think. While not an insane unit except vs hordes, it still feels very reliable. If it's anything less than 120, it feels like an auto-include.

I’d say so, as long as they’re capable of doing the mortal wounds or 2 dmg on 6’s to wound or something, like the other units. Along with a solid bodyguard rule they may be worth using alongside the Loreseeker who’d be going in alongside them, and they can protect him. Or potentially Eltharion to make him even more hilarious. 

[Aloth_Corfiser]

Such cool Lore that the Scinari are weaving the Banners for the Bladelords! 🥰 I felt, that defensive Banner effects were also a nice throwback to Warhammer Fantasy.
Itching to see the whole Warcsroll - but I guess Bladelords will shine when buffed by yet unknown Spells we might get or some charge Bonus like @LuminethMagementioned that also seems appropiate. The Bladelords should have 1 Wound though - It would feel out of place when compared to the Stoneguard, at least to me.
I am also looking to buy 10 Bladelords - the Models are just so beautiful. 😊

Edited March 24, 2021 by Aloth_Corfiser

[Ragest]

I think I won't care anymore about Warcom articles, because is impossible to be optimistic with half rules and no context. I can’t understand that marketing strategy.

But I will be ready to discuss with all of you when the books get shown or leaked in this thread. I won’t keep going to the rumor thread.

[Diogenes]

If they are Hurakan, they will be able to pile-fly in 6 inches? Maybe also flying shenanigan might be available somehow?

What combinations are possible? +1 Attack from our Avalenor?

Edited March 24, 2021 by Diogenes

[Gistradagis]

Just now, Diogenes said:

If they are Hurakan, they will be able to pile-fly in 6 inches? Maybe also flying shenanigan might be available somehow?

They would, but they are Vanari.

2 minutes ago, Ragest said:

I think I won't care anymore about Warcom articles, because is impossible to be optimistic with half rules and no context. I can’t understand that marketing strategy.

But I will be ready to discuss with all of you when the books get shown or leaked in this thread. I won’t keep going to the rumor thread.

To be fair, the same things were said about Hedonites' previews, and they ended up being complete reveals, with no hidden amazing abilities. Personally, I don't think we're gonna see any kind of bodyguard rule, or dmg 2 on 6s to wound. Just the standard sunmetal and wizard abilities.

[Diogenes]

9 minutes ago, Gistradagis said:

They would, but they are Vanari.

To be fair, the same things were said about Hedonites' previews, and they ended up being complete reveals, with no hidden amazing abilities. Personally, I don't think we're gonna see any kind of bodyguard rule, or dmg 2 on 6s to wound. Just the standard sunmetal and wizard abilities.

Opps, Vanari. I am sorry. But with the Shining Company and Sunmetal MW on 5+ with 3* attacks fighting from 2 ranks they get interesting again.

 

(*average estimation: maybe rank 1 has  even 6 models within 2", at 25mm maybe 3 enemy ranks could be 9 models, and the second rank only 3)

Edited March 24, 2021 by Diogenes

[Ragest]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Opps, Vanari. I am sorry. But with the Shining Company and Sunmetal MW on 5+ with 3 attacks fighting from 2 ranks they get interesting again.

They are going to get shinning, the double CA effect in Illiatha, MW on 6 and possibly the mage leader with power of hysh.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ragest

[OkayestDM]

If nothing else, the Perfect Strike ability will make them a threat to enemy heroes - particularly so in units of 10.

Flurry of Blows will still give you at least 2 attacks against 40mm base opponents, giving them a serviceable - if not exceptional - attack profile.

[Ragest]

4 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

If nothing else, the Perfect Strike ability will make them a threat to enemy heroes - particularly so in units of 10.

Flurry of Blows will still give you at least 2 attacks against 40mm base opponents, giving them a serviceable - if not exceptional - attack profile.

Half the army can deal with heroes

The problem with Blademasters are not they can deal with X or Y, the problem is that those spots are already occuped by other units. I thought they were going to be our elite-cleaning units, but i can't see it unless they get +1 damage to their first profile from something.

[OkayestDM]

3 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Half the army can deal with heroes

Lol, fair.  (I'm replying because all the Lumineth talk going around has maxed out my reactions for the day. )

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by OkayestDM

[Acid_Nine]

I like how we were al excited for bladelords the most and then this came out. There was whailing and gnashing of teeth everywhere

I shudder to think about the reaction to the new heroes

 

[Thaliontil]

2 hours ago, OkayestDM said:

Bladelords are intriguing. I suspect there's more to them yet to be seen, perhaps a command ability or synergy that makes them more dangerous (likely tied to Scinari, as the article singled them out as the Bladelords' primary charge.)

I wonder if out Mortal Wounds are going to migrate over to wound rolls instead?

It feels like the rules writers have had a real creative surge with the abilities they've come up with lately.  I'm excited to see what else they have in store for the Lumineth, and I hope this enthusiasm carries over to the other factions they're working on.

Powerful or not, this is some really flavorful stuff!

+1000. I really loved how thematic the ability is. Regarding salt, fortunately, in my gaming group people have been more objective in their analysis, except for a couple of guys who complain about things Lumineth. It will all depend on the points, of course, but at the moment I feel like they are placed in a weird spot, where they are less tough than Stoneguard and less killy/armoured? than wardens. But there could be some other rules regarding being an extra save for our Cathallars, or that our loreseekers and banners can turn them into real killing monsters. In fact, I am really looking forward to use the flurry of blade attack in a game.

And Swordmasters+Dragon princes were my favourite units from High Elves, so...definitely including some of these guys in my next army list.

[Howdyhedberg]

10 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Deathly Furrows applies to melee weapons and, since "Dashing Hooves" are melee weapons, the mount's attacks are included.  So you will get 4 hoof attacks when attacking a 1 wound unit.

Didnt know this. Thanks for sharing!

[adboyslim]

How will the "perfect strike" ability will combine with MW in your opinion? As it hit automatically (don't roll) it means you won't be able to do MW? (and make their power of hysh useless)?

It is neither logical nor powerful to me.

[Ragest]

1 minute ago, adboyslim said:

How will the "perfect strike" ability will combine with MW in your opinion? As it hit automatically (don't roll) it means you won't be able to do MW? (and make their power of hysh useless)?

It is neither logical nor powerful to me.

Yes, seems so, no MW with that profile.

[adboyslim]

11 minutes ago, Ragest said:

Yes, seems so, no MW with that profile

I have the feeling they will suffer the comparison with wardens.

The maths are complex. But wardens will strike with 2 attacks each, with more range and with MW will do more damage even on armoured heroes...

On another subject I've spotted that with Vanashimor Banners you can roll a dice even if this is your own spell  don't know if there is a benefit

[Ragest]

11 minutes ago, adboyslim said:

I have the feeling they will suffer the comparison with wardens.

The maths are complex. But wardens will strike with 2 attacks each, with more range and with MW will do more damage even on armoured heroes...

On another subject I've spotted that with Vanashimor Banners you can roll a dice even if this is your own spell  don't know if there is a benefit

I did some maths and with first profile blademasters just can’t compete with wardens, with the second, assuming they have mw 5+ with power oh hysh, they need 3 models in range to do a little more damage average than wardens.

The other part, is just usefull with endless spells, like if you throw an horrorghast or some gemini come back to you

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ragest

[woolf]

for clearing hordes, we already have dawnriders rigth? I think maybe if they get some body guard ability and in particular if they could stack more neg to hit from shooting (like old swordmasters) on top of shining company they could serve a role protecting mages, but only if they are fairly cheap (or we will get immortal guard in OBR problem). I think for sure they will have the MW on 6+ like all other sunmetal but yeah in practice doesn't look like they will do much dmg which was kinda what we needed more (ie ability to deal with big wound count opponents). I think main risk now is that we really become a shooting army, in particular if ballista and wind spirit turns out to be damage dealers...

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, adboyslim said:

I have the feeling they will suffer the comparison with wardens.

The maths are complex. But wardens will strike with 2 attacks each, with more range and with MW will do more damage even on armoured heroes...

Are you comparing them with Wardens that have charged or been charged?  I feel they have the more offensive role, with hopefully greater movement.

[LuminethMage]

After I joined this site I was honestly also surprised about how many  people seem to harbor negative feelings about elves (or are just trolling, not sure). I’m honestly baffled by this, sure, I like Lumineth the most, but there isn’t any fantasy faction I really dislike, no-interest is as far as it goes. 

During the first reveal when we had a similar situation, I argued a lot, but nothing good comes out of that, and you only work yourself up. From what I see, none of us enjoys looking like they are always bitching around or being defensive. So I try to avoid doing that (don’t succeed always though).

On the other hand, if we just always let it go, it can lead to situations that things like @l1censetochill and others have mentioned happen, where someone has heard so many negative things about LRL before they even have played against them, that they are pre-deposed to feel like everything is either OP or even worse, NPE (because you can’t really argue with the latter).

But, I doubt we can really do anything about it, so waiting this out at places like this part of the forum is probably good, we are only a maybe a week away before the show moves on.

And, even in the main forum, it looks like some people have overdone it, it looks to me, we are getting more support from neutral people. So it’s not all bad : ). 

Like @Ragest I do wonder what’s the point behind not providing full Warscrolls for the units they feature in these write ups. They are free anyway, and you couldn’t as easily have misleading expectations (either positive or negative). 🤷‍♂️ 

On topic, I’m also getting at least 2 boxes of these because they are such good looking models. 😍  And I like the abilities from a fluff point of view, they are really thematic. Let’s hope they either get a few more abilities by themselves or have good synergy with some of the new heroes. I’d be a shame if such a good looking and nostalgic unit would only be playable in non-competitive games. But sadly that happens to many factions (hello Slaangor).