Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[LuminethMage]

34 minutes ago, HanShot First said:

Love this and can agree and see all this as likely. Maybe the zenith alementor is one the dragons as zenith is just light. Also I hope the river warriors will be armed with glaives, we know they are armed with a sort of blade and glaives would make the most sense now that we have sword masters.

Yes, that's was also my thinking about the glaives, because they mentioned blades and we have sword masters already, and glaives also would match the more asian-style that the Lumineth have, and we don't have pole arms yet. 

Dragons could be zenith, yup. I'm really looking forward to what's going on with the Sun Spirit, the meeting between it and Tyrion was one of the more wonderfully weird stories in our Battletome. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by LuminethMage

[Kugane]

35 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Yes, that's was also my thinking about the glaives, because they mentioned blades and we have sword masters already, and glaives also would match the more asian-style that the Lumineth have, and we don't have pole arms yet. 

Dragons could be zenith, yup. I'm really looking forward to what's going on with the Sun Spirit, the meeting between it and Tyrion was one of the more wonderfully weird stories in our Battletome. 

I study Asian war history, and I can't help but see such strong paralels between Lumineth warfare and the things you'd see a historical Korean army, for example, pull off. So I wouldn't put it past them to add more asian-style weaponry.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Kugane

[LuminethMage]

Thanks for @Chikout to pointing me there (note to self always read articles down to the last sentence). 

The new free Warcry campaign based on the Broken Realms has this gem in it:

This campaign marks the beginning of regular Warcry content we’ll be uploading to Warhammer Community, so keep your eyes peeled next month when we’ll be sharing a campaign that ties into the events from Broken Realms: Teclis.

Hype mode —— INCREASE! 

Edited February 25, 2021 by LuminethMage

[SlyRebirth]

Great to see all the excitement for the new plastic - amazing models, so good...

But is nobody a little concerned/annoyed that a battletome and warscrolls are superceded after less than a year? It's one thing to commit to a general's handbook every year, and I understand the logic of an annualised update for balancing purposes.

However, I'm not overjoyed at having bought the book (as part of the lovely launch set) and the cards (separately) only to find I have to now buy another book (either BR:Teclis or the new battletome), while the warscroll cards will either only represent half an army, or if I buy the new ones, I'll have half an army of duplicates.

I suspect this whole split-release is probably down to COVID issues with production or something, but there's also a risk that jumping into a new army on day/week/year one isn't sensible in case you're repurchasing within 12 months...

 

[OkayestDM]

30 minutes ago, SlyRebirth said:

Great to see all the excitement for the new plastic - amazing models, so good...

But is nobody a little concerned/annoyed that a battletome and warscrolls are superceded after less than a year? It's one thing to commit to a general's handbook every year, and I understand the logic of an annualised update for balancing purposes.

However, I'm not overjoyed at having bought the book (as part of the lovely launch set) and the cards (separately) only to find I have to now buy another book (either BR:Teclis or the new battletome), while the warscroll cards will either only represent half an army, or if I buy the new ones, I'll have half an army of duplicates.

I suspect this whole split-release is probably down to COVID issues with production or something, but there's also a risk that jumping into a new army on day/week/year one isn't sensible in case you're repurchasing within 12 months...

 

It does grate a bit, but I won't let myself get too upset unless this becomes a constant move on GW's part.

Even ignoring the effect of Covid on releases, the rapid-fire updates we're seeing are all directly tied to Broken Realms, a unique narrative event that many people agree is tied to an upcoming 3rd Edition of the game. 

Given the sheer number of factions in AoS, a yearly update of battletomes is impractical and seems unlikely (they'd have to churn out roughly 2 battletomes a month to really pull that off year after year, never mind if more miniatures are involved.) I don't think GW is big enough to meet the production demands a move like that would result in. At least, not yet.

The old adage goes "twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern." 

For now, I'm not worried about my armies, and I'm pretty confident Lumineth will be left alone now for a while. GW still remembers the outrage over their Stormcast obsession from a few years back. 

 

[Yawn]

It's frustrating for sure, but I'm going to give GW a pass on this just this once. Covid really messed up the Lumineth release & I doubt releasing two battletomes in under a year was the original plan.

If it becomes a regular thing though, no one is going to buy battletomes anymore that's for sure

[Joseph Mackay]

47 minutes ago, Yawn said:

It's frustrating for sure, but I'm going to give GW a pass on this just this once. Covid really messed up the Lumineth release & I doubt releasing two battletomes in under a year was the original plan.

If it becomes a regular thing though, no one is going to buy battletomes anymore that's for sure

Yeah this. I doubt they intended to do 2 battletomes, but something went wrong and the first release ended up smaller than it should have been. They couldn’t hold Lumineth back any further due to how much they’d been hyping their release all year. They backed themselves into a corner due to their own hype, but also covid

[SlyRebirth]

Fair enough - but they're still selling the 'old' battletome which they know will be superceded shortly.

And, it rubs both ways... COVID also means there's been no opportunity to actually use the book or warscroll cards. It's unfortunate, I agree, but honestly I feel like there should be a bit more effort than "oh don't worry, you can just buy a different book" approach.

I'll get off the soapbox now

[Ragest]

Well guys... wave 1 was packed and ready to launch in Feb

[Acid_Nine]

I wish I had time to play and paint now... I was dragged back into this by the new releases! 

 

also, how is the army doing in general? fun to play / pretty competent as it stands?

 

[Joseph Mackay]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Well guys... wave 1 was packed and ready to launch in Feb

And covid had been going on in China (where the books, spells and cards are printed) since at least November 

[LuminethMage]

8 hours ago, SlyRebirth said:

Great to see all the excitement for the new plastic - amazing models, so good...

But is nobody a little concerned/annoyed that a battletome and warscrolls are superceded after less than a year? It's one thing to commit to a general's handbook every year, and I understand the logic of an annualised update for balancing purposes.

However, I'm not overjoyed at having bought the book (as part of the lovely launch set) and the cards (separately) only to find I have to now buy another book (either BR:Teclis or the new battletome), while the warscroll cards will either only represent half an army, or if I buy the new ones, I'll have half an army of duplicates.

I suspect this whole split-release is probably down to COVID issues with production or something, but there's also a risk that jumping into a new army on day/week/year one isn't sensible in case you're repurchasing within 12 months...

 

It probably won't surprise anyone here, but I'm not really annoyed by this. It still depends a bit on what's actually in BR Teclis and the new Battletome, but personally, I like those books. I bought BR Morathi without having an intention to play any of the factions in covered in that book. 

This is how I see it: I have nothing much to complain in comparison to other factions. We get story focus (with all the marketing attention that that includes like the BR Teclis video) and 11(!?) new kits. Within just a year. Is that worse than sitting around 3 years on a lot of stuff with nothing much really happening? Or even compared to DoK. They "have" to buy a new Battletome after a much longer time (3 years?) with no updates, and what does it include in terms of totally new stuff? 3 Endless Spells/Prayers, and rules updates. Is that better? Depends on the person. All the rest is basically in BR Morathi, which they also "had" to buy, an army box etc. If you don't care about the art and lore parts. 

Could they have released everything together. Sure. And then nothing much in BR Teclis (like one of the heroes with current units in a box with another hero and units from another faction)? Would that have been better? Not for me. Such a battle box (one single new unit) and 3 Endless Spells was all DoK players got out of their place in the limelight. And now maybe they have to wait for another 3+ years until they get much of anything new. And they also had to buy two books. They'll have the same amount of books (2 BT and one campaign) as we do with far less kits. 

Hedonites just had a bit more time in between releases than we do (like 6 month). Does that make much of a difference? They'll have around the same kits as we do, and also had to buy several Battletomes. 

I also genuinely prefer this to having 22+ kits at the start and then almost nothing for 3 years (maybe a hero or something in one of their AoS adjacent games). People complain about that too. A new battletome also means new art and new lore, new painting guides etc. In the end the two battletomes should add up to more than one combined one.

It's probably not worth for everyone, and I can understand that some people don't like it, but I honestly don't think it's that big of a deal. I think Covid had a big impact on the impression of this because many people couldn't play, so it feels worse than it normally would. Many people likely haven't done many in person games with the current battletome.

As @Ragest mentioned, the Lumienth BT and models were in warehouses before Covid started to have any influence at all, they always planned on a split release with roughly a year apart between the two. 

Selling Battletomes and other books is part of their sales concept. One can critique that concept as such, but I really don't think we Lumineth players have that much to complain about. 

[Allonairre]

@Acid_Nine

I am enjoying the army but I am just learninG AoS so perhaps don’t have a comparison. 
 

It seems fairly balanced and capable of competing in most phases.
Caveat I am playing small games with and against fairly balanced lists. Nobody is trying to write the best list that can table an opponent turn 1. Also not played any tournaments yet. 
 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Allonairre
The quote didn’t come through

[SirSalabean]

16 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Thanks for @Chikout to pointing me there (note to self always read articles down to the last sentence). 

The new free Warcry campaign based on the Broken Realms has this gem in it:

This campaign marks the beginning of regular Warcry content we’ll be uploading to Warhammer Community, so keep your eyes peeled next month when we’ll be sharing a campaign that ties into the events from Broken Realms: Teclis.

Hype mode —— INCREASE! 

How exciting! Confirms BR Teclis is coming in March alongside Lumineth can’t wait for my blademasters and wind stuff 

[Skreech Verminking]

Error

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

Having technical issues, sorry 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:15 AM, Joseph Mackay said:

The problem for me is that these ‘unrealistic’ lists (the ones you’ll never see in person), is that their results are meaningless because you’ll never see them, but also, any games against those lists are also meaningless because wins over the unrealistic lists don’t necessarily mean anything against a real list and artificially alter a factions ‘Winrate’ 

if TTS results were kept separate from actual games then fine, but using the data together isn’t giving an accurate representation of the state of the game.

320clanrats or 200skryre acolytes isn’t that impossible at all.

I’m literally  Playing these kinds of lists in real life

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Erdemo86]

Hey guys, I’m thinking about starting with a competitive Lumineth army. Want to start with 1000 points first, paint and then extend later, what would be a good a start?

was thinking about this list but I’m not experienced so any help will be welcome.

Leaders
Scinari Cathallar (140)
The Light of Eltharion (220)

Battleline
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)

Units
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)

Total: 1000 / 2000

 

[LuminethMage]

5 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

Hey guys, I’m thinking about starting with a competitive Lumineth army. Want to start with 1000 points first, paint and then extend later, what would be a good a start?

was thinking about this list but I’m not experienced so any help will be welcome.

Leaders
Scinari Cathallar (140)
The Light of Eltharion (220)

Battleline
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)

Units
5 x Vanari Dawnriders (130)

Total: 1000 / 2000

 

This would do for a good 1,000 list (or even 10 more wardens instead of the second unit of Dawnriders), and a good core for 2,000 points too. Eltharion isn’t used in most competitive 2,000 points lists though at the moment. 

The problem right now is that our Warscrolls will double soon, so we don’t really know what’s going to be competitive in a few months. There also could be points changes and other updates in BR Teclis/new Battletome for the current units and abilities. If Warden stay the key battleline unit, they should be a safe bet to buy. Sentinels & Dawnriders likely too, but it’s hard to say. It’s especially difficult to say for our heroes, because we’ll get a ton of new ones. 

[Icarion]

On 2/23/2021 at 11:33 AM, HanShot First said:

I would love to see this personally but it seems a little odd to me that the new blade masters aren’t one of the 4 martial skills of this is the case. But I would love to see war dragons and more classic high elf stuff. Also I don’t think we will get a lot of Phoenix stuff because that is basically confirmed to be the sun spirit. Maybe the lore will change a lot in the new battletome and broken realms.

In the old world the Swordmasters served Hoeth God of Magic. In this reimagined form of Bladelords it looks to be the same, they all are wearing the Rune of Teclis on their helmets and on the top of their banners, and also each one of them has a giant moon symbol on their chest. Similarly, it looks like they are lacking sun or Tyrinoic motifs.

While they are Vanari, They appear to be a more Teclian side of Vanari, like the Dawnriders were more Tyrionic.

[HanShot First]

I was wondering how Blademasters would look in the base scheme if the blue was replaced by red. I’m super bad at photo shop and can’t seem to get it right, but I think it would really nice.

[Tiger]

13 hours ago, Athrawes said:

In the old world the Swordmasters served Hoeth God of Magic.

Hoeth is the elven god of knowledge and learning.

[Icarion]

15 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Hoeth is the elven god of knowledge and learning.

He was also the patron of elven wizardry, so yeah  leaving aside semantics he was god of magic to the elves, just like Teclis is now. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Athrawes

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, Athrawes said:

He was also the patron of elven wizardry, so yeah  leaving aside semantics he was god of magic to the elves, just like Teclis is now. 

Suit yourself.

[Ragest]

You think the blademasters are going to have a mage? Both mages in Sentinels and Wardes are well differentiated from the rest of the unit, but there we just see a guy with two weapons of the same.