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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


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If the Bladelords get the old -1 to hit from missile attacks and have shining company, then they're going to be fairly safe until they get into combat.  If the champion is also a wizard, then Protection of Hysh will make them even more survivable before getting into combat and Speed of Hysh would get them there even faster.  If they really are choppy, then they should be able to deal with most units when they get there, depending on the size you take them in.  80 points for 5 would put them on a par with Phoenix Guard, which I would pay if they were as described as above.

Who knows what buffs the new heroes might be able to give them.

I'm feeling confident about them.

 

 

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I've never been terribly enamored with GW faction terrain in this game. They're fine and usually look stunning, but most of them aren't something I would purchase if they didn't add a bonus to the army, That said, the Shrine Luminor is a masterpiece. I'm probably going to get 2 to use as scatter terrain in other games. Floating rocks and waterfalls is a great look, but the fact that models can move on, around, and under the it is a huge selling point for me. 

I'm hoping this is a sign of things to come. More terrain that adds levels to the battlefield without blocking out a large portion of it is a solid win for me, and I'm all about it.

I wonder if models must be flying to get ip there, or if there's some sort of baked in rule to allow units (or at least Lumineth Units) easy access to the upper level. It would make a great perch for Sentinels or  Ballista. I think they showed the Calligrave up there, who doesn't seem to be a flying unit. Then again, perhaps with the Hurakan we get a spell that lets units fly?

Looking forward to reveals on what these new units bring to the table! Also glad that I've been so judicious with my saving up recently. Gonna drain that hobby money real fast on this one!

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Hmm, this has been in the game in the past so I reckon they may be able to protect allied units from ranged weapons. Anyone shooting through the unit at units behind them also have -1 to hit, as they deflect the projectiles. Could make them interesting, but sort of funny due to standing in front of the shield wall.

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40 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

I've never been terribly enamored with GW faction terrain in this game. They're fine and usually look stunning, but most of them aren't something I would purchase if they didn't add a bonus to the army, That said, the Shrine Luminor is a masterpiece. I'm probably going to get 2 to use as scatter terrain in other games. Floating rocks and waterfalls is a great look, but the fact that models can move on, around, and under the it is a huge selling point for me. 

I'm hoping this is a sign of things to come. More terrain that adds levels to the battlefield without blocking out a large portion of it is a solid win for me, and I'm all about it.

I wonder if models must be flying to get ip there, or if there's some sort of baked in rule to allow units (or at least Lumineth Units) easy access to the upper level. It would make a great perch for Sentinels or  Ballista. I think they showed the Calligrave up there, who doesn't seem to be a flying unit. Then again, perhaps with the Hurakan we get a spell that lets units fly?

Looking forward to reveals on what these new units bring to the table! Also glad that I've been so judicious with my saving up recently. Gonna drain that hobby money real fast on this one!

Couldn’t agree more. The Shrine is so, so good. Both the look and the structure with models being able to go under it. I’m a bit afraid of having to paint it, but I can also see me picking up two of those in the end. Even if I just use them as scenery. 

My guess for access is that you can put units just up there, but it’s restricted to Wizards with a certain wound threshold. 

The whole second wave is amazing, with some new interpretations of old favorites like the BSB, Loremaster and Swordmasters, and then really interesting ideas around the new culture of the Lumineth with units  like the Hurakan and the Calligrave (I really someone had an outstanding idea with this, even if the model might not be appealing to everyone). 

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Was there some discussion of an alternative build for the Bladelords that had short spears when the drawn video was released?  If so, do you think this is still on the cards, but GW have held it back as a last minute surprise - or am I just being delusional?  (I was also hoping for an alternative melee build for the rooriders, as they've done for the new Slaanesh cavalry).

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8 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Was there some discussion of an alternative build for the Bladelords that had short spears when the drawn video was released?  If so, do you think this is still on the cards, but GW have held it back as a last minute surprise - or am I just being delusional?  (I was also hoping for an alternative melee build for the rooriders, as they've done for the new Slaanesh cavalry).

I don't think we get glaives or melee Windchargers. In the video they showed last time, they had this "that's you whole release" moving-over-army camera shot in it. You can have a look at the BR Teclis video again, for me it just looks like great swords. You can always hope until the models are out that there are double kits, just personally I think it's unlikely, but I also don't have more information than you : )

50 minutes ago, Yawn said:

So... do we think this is the last reveal, or is Tyrion on our horizons? We have the twin favoured by him, and surely we are getting the rules from the Tyrionic nations with the new book. I can dream!

I don't think Tyrion is on the horizon. The storyline is all about Teclis. There is Lyrior Uthralle, Tyrion's champion, but he is the Warden of Ymetrica, and you have one of the Twins, but that's just keeping with the whole duality background of the Lumineth. The Vanari as a whole are like that. The Loreseeker too. I don't think any of this means that Tyrion is coming soon. There will be a big intro over several month before he going to be fully revealed, and I don't see us getting another BT within the next year. If we ever see Tyrion might also depend on how well Lumineth sell this time around. They clearly already have an idea where they want to go with him and his side of the Lumineth, but who knows how far they are into the process. 

The nation on the other hand is an really interesting question. What are they going to do with the Wind Temple? Just battalion(s)? Change one of the current Grand Nations? Introduce new one? Xintil (because CoS will be a thing in BR Teclis)? A Tyrionic Nation? I think the last option is the least likely, because they set up the whole thing so nicely: 4 Grand Nations and 2 temples left for a later Tyrion-focused release. Personally, I think they either change one of the current ones (likely Ymetrica or Iliatha) or don't do anything with the GN (because some people might be pissed if the old BT gets already out-dated), and just provide new battalions. 

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53 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I don't think we get glaives or melee Windchargers. In the video they showed last time, they had this "that's you whole release" moving-over-army camera shot in it. You can have a look at the BR Teclis video again, for me it just looks like great swords. You can always hope until the models are out that there are double kits, just personally I think it's unlikely, but I also don't have more information than you : )

 

You're probably right, but we'll finally know when the models are released.  The Stoneguard have alternative weapon options, so perhaps the Bladelords do too. Not all blades are swords, after all.  Less likely for the Rooriders, but they're still wonderful.

One thing I will say; the more they push named characters and Temples into Ymetrica, the less likely I am to follow.  I'll stick with the generic heroes and have some flexibility.  I don't like being railroaded when it comes to designing my own take on armies.

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2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

I don't think we get glaives or melee Windchargers. In the video they showed last time, they had this "that's you whole release" moving-over-army camera shot in it. You can have a look at the BR Teclis video again, for me it just looks like great swords. You can always hope until the models are out that there are double kits, just personally I think it's unlikely, but I also don't have more information than you : )

I don't think Tyrion is on the horizon. The storyline is all about Teclis. There is Lyrior Uthralle, Tyrion's champion, but he is the Warden of Ymetrica, and you have one of the Twins, but that's just keeping with the whole duality background of the Lumineth. The Vanari as a whole are like that. The Loreseeker too. I don't think any of this means that Tyrion is coming soon. There will be a big intro over several month before he going to be fully revealed, and I don't see us getting another BT within the next year. If we ever see Tyrion might also depend on how well Lumineth sell this time around. They clearly already have an idea where they want to go with him and his side of the Lumineth, but who knows how far they are into the process. 

The nation on the other hand is an really interesting question. What are they going to do with the Wind Temple? Just battalion(s)? Change one of the current Grand Nations? Introduce new one? Xintil (because CoS will be a thing in BR Teclis)? A Tyrionic Nation? I think the last option is the least likely, because they set up the whole thing so nicely: 4 Grand Nations and 2 temples left for a later Tyrion-focused release. Personally, I think they either change one of the current ones (likely Ymetrica or Iliatha) or don't do anything with the GN (because some people might be pissed if the old BT gets already out-dated), and just provide new battalions. 

Yeah, the Great Nation question is one that I've been mulling over since the reveal show, and I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. It seems likely from the color schemes that all of the new named characters are going to be from Ymetrica - including the named Lord Regent, the Twins, and Sevireth, the named Wind Spirit.

And that strikes me as really strange, because none of those units (on the surface, at least) seem like they'd have any synergy with the Ymetrica allegiance abilities, nor do they really seem to fit into the lore. Lyrior Uthralle is a Vanari lord and Tyrion's champion, but Ymetrica is a Teclian nation (and Iliatha is the Great Nation built around the Vanari units, not Ymetrica). The Twins also seem like they'd fit perfectly into Iliatha, since Iliatha's lore is all about twins and soul magic. And we already know Ymetrica is the Great Nation with the largest number of Mountain temples (and they've already got Avalenor), so it seems very weird that the named Wind Spirit is also going to be a Ymetrica unit.

So I'm really not sure what the deal is there. Part of me almost expects the Ymetrica allegiance abilities will have to be changed, since they can't be the Hammers of Sigmar, poster-child Lumineth faction, but also be pigeonholed into benefitting only Alarith units. It's like they picked Ymetrica for the named characters and box art based purely on the color scheme, but didn't give any thought to how their rules would work or what the lore says about them. It's weird.

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7 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

What are they going to do with the Wind Temple? Just battalion(s)? Change one of the current Grand Nations? Introduce new one? Xintil (because CoS will be a thing in BR Teclis)? A Tyrionic Nation?

Hmm a silly thought, but perhaps the Wind Temple Warriors could be nomadic? Sure they would have some Holy Sites but otherwise would prefer to roam around more than the other Temple affiliated Aelves. :) Then it could be explained why they hop along the great Teclian Crusade. 

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1 hour ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

Hmm a silly thought, but perhaps the Wind Temple Warriors could be nomadic? Sure they would have some Holy Sites but otherwise would prefer to roam around more than the other Temple affiliated Aelves. :) Then it could be explained why they hop along the great Teclian Crusade. 

Yeah that would make sense, just because the named Wind Spirit is Severith, Lord of the Seventh Wind, it’s likely he is also from Ymetrica. 
 

F7CB0BF5-D088-438A-8A41-B833BC0D5120.jpeg

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15 hours ago, Yawn said:

So... do we think this is the last reveal, or is Tyrion on our horizons? We have the twin favoured by him, and surely we are getting the rules from the Tyrionic nations with the new book. I can dream!

I think Tyrion will get his own broken realms book in a year or so with wave 3 of Lumineth. Probably will have chariots,  war machines and more vanari units along with the water temple.

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I never stopped loving the faction, and still, I fell in love with it all over again this past weekend. I remain awed by that terrain piece in particular. Still room to grow with the river and zenith temples, and of course I cannot help but wish for an astounding mini for my man Tyrion when he finally decides to stop chilling in Hysh. But I'm an extremely happy hobbyist with the faction as it is after this reveal.

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On 2/22/2021 at 9:40 AM, HanShot First said:

I think Tyrion will get his own broken realms book in a year or so with wave 3 of Lumineth. Probably will have chariots,  war machines and more vanari units along with the water temple.

While I would love that, the army certainly feels like a full range now and I'd prefer them expand other factions before giving Lumineth more goodies

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1 hour ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

While I would love that, the army certainly feels like a full range now and I'd prefer them expand other factions before giving Lumineth more goodies

I agree fully. However I expect Tyrion will show up within a year alongside the Zenith temple, and that would make the Lumineth a tremendous line with many ways to theme your army.

Speaking of themes, after I finish my 100 Vanari core models, I have my next project queued.

IMG_20210223_113327.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Pyrescribe said:

However I expect Tyrion will show up within a year alongside the Zenith temple

 

On 2/22/2021 at 2:40 PM, HanShot First said:

I think Tyrion will get his own broken realms book in a year or so with wave 3 of Lumineth. Probably will have chariots,  war machines and more vanari units along with the water temple.

I don't think either River or Zenith Temples will appear with Tyrion; they will appear as individual updates as and when the storyline requires.  The 4 Aelimentari are all Teclian.  Tyrion will, if anthing, have (up to) 4 Martial Academies with each mastering a particular fighting style.  The Temples seem to be following a trend of 1 or 2 units, a hero and a centrepiece.  I would guess that any Tyrionic Schools would probably follow a similar pattern. Perhaps the centrepieces will be large war beasts, Dragonesque or Phoenix-like,  Hyshian fauna to counterpoint the Hyshian elements.  One would assume that Hyshian creatures are of higher intelligence than similar species from the other Realms.

I don't think Tyrion will appear for some time.  From the lore, it seems that Tyrion believes Slaanesh is bound beyond doubt. I would say not until after Slaanesh has fully escaped Their prison will He realise His mistake, and I don't see Slaanesh escaping any time soon now that the unformed one has been birthed.  Slaanesh will want to maintain the illusion of imprisonment while having part of Him/Her free to act in the Realms unnoticed.

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20 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

 

I don't think either River or Zenith Temples will appear with Tyrion; they will appear as individual updates as and when the storyline requires.  The 4 Aelimentari are all Teclian.  Tyrion will, if anthing, have (up to) 4 Martial Academies with each mastering a particular fighting style.  The Temples seem to be following a trend of 1 or 2 units, a hero and a centrepiece.  I would guess that any Tyrionic Schools would probably follow a similar pattern. Perhaps the centrepieces will be large war beasts, Dragonesque or Phoenix-like,  Hyshian fauna to counterpoint the Hyshian elements.  One would assume that Hyshian creatures are of higher intelligence than similar species from the other Realms.

I don't think Tyrion will appear for some time.  From the lore, it seems that Tyrion believes Slaanesh is bound beyond doubt. I would say not until after Slaanesh has fully escaped Their prison will He realise His mistake, and I don't see Slaanesh escaping any time soon now that the unformed one has been birthed.  Slaanesh will want to maintain the illusion of imprisonment while having part of Him/Her free to act in the Realms unnoticed.

I would love to see this personally but it seems a little odd to me that the new blade masters aren’t one of the 4 martial skills of this is the case. But I would love to see war dragons and more classic high elf stuff. Also I don’t think we will get a lot of Phoenix stuff because that is basically confirmed to be the sun spirit. Maybe the lore will change a lot in the new battletome and broken realms.

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1 minute ago, HanShot First said:

I would love to see this personally but it seems a little odd to me that the new blade masters aren’t one of the 4 martial skills of this is the case. But I would love to see war dragons and more classic high elf stuff. Also I don’t think we will get a lot of Phoenix stuff because that is basically confirmed to be the sun spirit. Maybe the lore will change a lot in the new battletome and broken realms.

Well, isn't the Sun Hysh itself?  It is Hysh and Ulgu rotating round each other that give the other Realms day and night.  Teclis has Cellenar, Spirit of the Moon. Page 8 of the Battletome describing Tyrion's journey to the edge ends with "the elemental spirit of of brilliant light that occupied the Perimeter Inimical" and Tyrion finding "common cause".  It seems only right, therefore, that anyTyrion model would be accompanied by a Phoenix-like creature.

I'm hoping that as the Bladelords are the elite of the Vanari, that will open up the freedom for those who specifically follow Tyrion to wield more esoteric and diverse weaponry whilst studying more mystical techniques.  The Vanari will then fill the role of regular troops that serve both, which follows the lore already set out.  

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1 hour ago, Pyrescribe said:

If I recall the entire Vanari path is the Tyrionic martial system. Am I mistaken?

The Vanari are "the standing armies of the Lumineth" (P36) "formed largely of citizen warriors" (P5).  Page 5 goes into more detail, but essentially the Vanari are regular citizens who also take up arms in time of war, rather like an Anglo-Saxon Fyrd.

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1 hour ago, Pyrescribe said:

If I recall the entire Vanari path is the Tyrionic martial system. Am I mistaken?

As Aelfric said, they are citizen warriors (though their command structure is Tyrionic). I expect Tyrion to be part of their next release alongside one of his temple equivalents. More precisely, I expect the next release to include the vanari chariots and scouts mentioned in the battletome (since they are the only units described there that weren't present in the first or second waves) aswell as an updated version of Phoenix Temple that brings their designs closer to the Lumineth design language and adds them to the army. There's a lot of things pointing at it, between the lore of the Ur-Phoenix itself (it being a Hyshian godbeast with elves of every realm making pilgrimage there to visit its shrines) aswell as phoenixes being a symbol used over and over to represent Tyrion (as you can see in several Vanari units aswell as the standard of the bannerblade that shows a phoenix on the tyrionic side as the counterpart of Celennar in the teclian side). After that, I assume the second will be dragon related, as the battletome has several dragons scattered over its art and the old High Elf nomenclature of Moon, Sun and Star dragons fits perfectly with Lumineth's themes and naming conventions.

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Oh speculation! I really love that, always interesting, and in the end GW does something unexpected (like dropping 11 warscrolls on us after 9(?) months 😅). 

My take would be this: 

Tyrion/Sun Spirit/Phoenix Temple: The Sun Spirit will almost certainly be a phoenix or phoenix-dragon like creature. We have seen so many hints about the sun spirit being a phoenix now, I can't imagine this won't be the case. The latest one on the Bannerblade again, where it's absolutely clear: Opposite of Celennar and its symbol right be low it. How this will tie in (or not) with Phoenix Temple is really interesting. The Ur-Pheonix and Tyrion share the same symbol. GW really takes these symbols serious in the Lumineth range so I can't imagine that's just a coincidence. The Phoenix Temple also would fit in so well with aelementiri temples. If the Anointed was a mage, it would be 100%. As they are wholly warriors this might be Tyrion's sole martial order. On the other hand I have my doubts that they'll blow up CoS in this way, so there might be just some kind of background/lore connection between them (they act as Tyrion's eyes and ears in the other Realms, and revere Tyrion in form of the Ur-Phoenix, or something like that). How Legions of Nagash and the new Soulbight will be handled could give us a hint about which direction CoS are going. 

We have two more interesting hints about the Sun Spirit and eventual phoenix-dragons. We have 6 Warden chest-armors. The High Warden shows a phoenix, the wardens have one sun and one moon symbol, and Celennar on them. 

And then these two here: 

492286425_ScreenShot2021-02-24at9_38_26.png.de131382bd875dbe89f68e0d44aa40df.png388456943_ScreenShot2021-02-24at9_38_17.png.25f6c52466a5c7cd9b1baec6da6e16b3.png

The first one could easily be a weird mask for the sun spirit (although the phoenix's face on the banner and wherever we see it looks more like a normal bird/beast) , and the second one looks very much like the faces of dragons/phoenixes shown on the first pages of our Battletome.  

Now the question is how they would be released. The Sun Spirit is easy, It'll come together with Tyrion, either same model or as a separate identity. Concerning the phoenx/dragons, I think we'll see something like a "New Caledor" (in the same way Zaitrec is "New Saphery") in one of the Tyrionic nations. But one difference between the Lumineth and the High Elves is, that Lumineth do not really have special units tied to the Great Nations (Ymetrica is more a Great Nation tied to a Temple) in the same form the HE had. So the dragons might be just another form of Vanari Elite in the end. I think we'll see heavy cavalry with Tyrion so they could take that function.

Temples: The River temple could just come out on it's on at some point or with Tyrion. It  likely will consist of three units again and seems the most martial focused one. They likely have two sword-like weapons or something like a glaive, maybe double bladed. The temples are more Teclian aligned, but they do have their warriors, which are the more Tyrionic aspect within the temples. The devs again shows this on the models: The Stoneguard have little sun amulets on their belts, and the new Windcharger warriors also have sun symbols on them. I don't think we'll see 4 Tyrionic martial orders, although that'd be awesome. The Vanari are more Tyrionic aligned, but again have some Teclian elements in them (Dawnriders being very much on the Tyrionic side, Bladelords almost Teclian). So there is a balance. None is 100% either side. 

I doubt we'll see the Zenith temple in the same way as the rest. They haven't mentioned any zenith warriors, it's all about the mages, and in the Battletome it says somewhere that a zenith mages is (almost) as powerful as an aelementor. I also wonder which spirits of light there are besides the Sun and Moon Spirit. There are other moons of course, and they could come up with something, but I have my doubts there. Maybe they have several different Light of Eltharion-like models?

Release schedule: I don't think we'll see another bigger release (eg Tyrion) anytime within this or next year (earliest end of next year maybe). The river temple might come out at some point if they don't want to tie it to the Tyrionic release. If the Severith is a Wind Spirit from Ymetrica, I have the feeling the River Temple will come out separately from Tyrion and be located along the Great Daixo River in Ymetrica (which they called Great Daiko River in the WD article). 

There are so many other direction they can go and factions they have to support, and Tyrion seems to be likely taken up when the Slaanesh story will continue which also should take a while. And with all the new stuff, if most of the new models don't have bad rules, this should keep us occupied for a long long time.

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28 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Oh speculation! I really love that, always interesting, and in the end GW does something unexpected (like dropping 11 warscrolls on us after 9(?) months 😅). 

My take would be this: 

Tyrion/Sun Spirit/Phoenix Temple: The Sun Spirit will almost certainly be a phoenix or phoenix-dragon like creature. We have seen so many hints about the sun spirit being a phoenix now, I can't imagine this won't be the case. The latest one on the Bannerblade again, where it's absolutely clear: Opposite of Celennar and its symbol right be low it. How this will tie in (or not) with Phoenix Temple is really interesting. The Ur-Pheonix and Tyrion share the same symbol. GW really takes these symbols serious in the Lumineth range so I can't imagine that's just a coincidence. The Phoenix Temple also would fit in so well with aelementiri temples. If the Anointed was a mage, it would be 100%. As they are wholly warriors this might be Tyrion's sole martial order. On the other hand I have my doubts that they'll blow up CoS in this way, so there might be just some kind of background/lore connection between them (they act as Tyrion's eyes and ears in the other Realms, and revere Tyrion in form of the Ur-Phoenix, or something like that). How Legions of Nagash and the new Soulbight will be handled could give us a hint about which direction CoS are going. 

We have two more interesting hints about the Sun Spirit and eventual phoenix-dragons. We have 6 Warden chest-armors. The High Warden shows a phoenix, the wardens have one sun and one moon symbol, and Celennar on them. 

And then these two here: 

492286425_ScreenShot2021-02-24at9_38_26.png.de131382bd875dbe89f68e0d44aa40df.png388456943_ScreenShot2021-02-24at9_38_17.png.25f6c52466a5c7cd9b1baec6da6e16b3.png

The first one could easily be a weird mask for the sun spirit (although the phoenix's face on the banner and wherever we see it looks more like a normal bird/beast) , and the second one looks very much like the faces of dragons/phoenixes shown on the first pages of our Battletome.  

Now the question is how they would be released. The Sun Spirit is easy, It'll come together with Tyrion, either same model or as a separate identity. Concerning the phoenx/dragons, I think we'll see something like a "New Caledor" (in the same way Zaitrec is "New Saphery") in one of the Tyrionic nations. But one difference between the Lumineth and the High Elves is, that Lumineth do not really have special units tied to the Great Nations (Ymetrica is more a Great Nation tied to a Temple) in the same form the HE had. So the dragons might be just another form of Vanari Elite in the end. I think we'll see heavy cavalry with Tyrion so they could take that function.

Temples: The River temple could just come out on it's on at some point or with Tyrion. It  likely will consist of three units again and seems the most martial focused one. They likely have two sword-like weapons or something like a glaive, maybe double bladed. The temples are more Teclian aligned, but they do have their warriors, which are the more Tyrionic aspect within the temples. The devs again shows this on the models: The Stoneguard have little sun amulets on their belts, and the new Windcharger warriors also have sun symbols on them. I don't think we'll see 4 Tyrionic martial orders, although that'd be awesome. The Vanari are more Tyrionic aligned, but again have some Teclian elements in them (Dawnriders being very much on the Tyrionic side, Bladelords almost Teclian). So there is a balance. None is 100% either side. 

I doubt we'll see the Zenith temple in the same way as the rest. They haven't mentioned any zenith warriors, it's all about the mages, and in the Battletome it says somewhere that a zenith mages is (almost) as powerful as an aelementor. I also wonder which spirits of light there are besides the Sun and Moon Spirit. There are other moons of course, and they could come up with something, but I have my doubts there. Maybe they have several different Light of Eltharion-like models?

Release schedule: I don't think we'll see another bigger release (eg Tyrion) anytime within this or next year (earliest end of next year maybe). The river temple might come out at some point if they don't want to tie it to the Tyrionic release. If the Severith is a Wind Spirit from Ymetrica, I have the feeling the River Temple will come out separately from Tyrion and be located along the Great Daixo River in Ymetrica (which they called Great Daiko River in the WD article). 

There are so many other direction they can go and factions they have to support, and Tyrion seems to be likely taken up when the Slaanesh story will continue which also should take a while. And with all the new stuff, if most of the new models don't have bad rules, this should keep us occupied for a long long time.

Love this and can agree and see all this as likely. Maybe the zenith alementor is one the dragons as zenith is just light. Also I hope the river warriors will be armed with glaives, we know they are armed with a sort of blade and glaives would make the most sense now that we have sword masters.

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