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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


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2 minutes ago, Lucur said:

You could grab the underworlds warband (i eye myari as a cathallar stand-in) and build a unit leader from the box.

Thanks, hadn't thoughtof that! there's an archer in there, so can just make the champion as normal - job done.  The others can be alternatives later down the road.

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11 hours ago, LoonKing98 said:

Some lore questions for y'all (let me know if this was covered in the battletome and I'm just a careless reader)

- Do all Great Nations follow a monarchical system of government? 

- How does one become a Cathalar? Is it a role you are raised to assume or do just powerful mages choose to become one? Also, reading over the organization of Teclis' vanguard, it appears Cathalar's lead the Vanari Legions, is this true?

Thanks!

Just to add to what @Aloth_Corfiser and @Aelfric said, which is both correct, the AoS RPG called Soulbound just released a new supplement yesterday where Lumineth became playable player characters, but there is no new information about any of the topics you asked. So it looks like that those parts just haven’t been developed much yet.

About the Cathallar leading Vanari Legions - the sentence Aloth was looking for is on page 5 under the heading Hyshian Warhosts. It says that Scinari are leading the Vanari (or the military theory training of the Vanari). Together with the picture you mentioned, you could interpret this in a way that Cathallars are leading the Vanari of the Vanguard. But it’s not really clear.

As we'll get a lot of new characters with the new release, this is the one topics I think we’ll have more clarity about once BR Teclis drops. I thought before that the Scinari are in the lead, but having a Vanari Lord Regent makes me think it’s a continuation of the High Elf way of doing it - Vanari and Scinari are separated, with normally a Vanari Lord being in charge, but deferring to Scinari in all matters having to do with magic, and in some places Scinari outright leading Vanari, for example in some or all of the Teclian Nations like It was with Saphery before.

The temples are also lead by mages (although we don’t know if they lead the temple’s military forces). 

Edited by LuminethMage
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On 2/9/2021 at 4:08 AM, Ragest said:

Idoneth 73,08wr in 54 matches

DoK 70,00wr in 40 matches

Seraphon 58,94wr in 143 matches

Ogor 56,94wr in 108 matches

DoT 56,06wr in 66 matches

...

KO 51,04wr in 96 matches

...

LRL 45,03wr in 117 matches

Last 3 months, physical and online tournaments around the world. Sorry I can’t send you the video atm because my meta group is still working on it, but go ahead finding somethin more accurate about meta state.

And no, I can’t take seriously stuff like the last hammertime with 80 players just having 3 matches starting with the less competitive battleplan possible and not even playin with realms or scenery rules.

So, looking at the HWG rankings according to their TTS stats, the Lumineth had very similar results, 48% win rate, which would have put them in the exactly same bracket (C tier, 45% to 50% win rate) under their tier system, as the results you have shown . : ) 

The overall numbers are a bit different, but besides KO they have also similar factions on top - Seraphon, Idoneth, DoK etc. 

Edited by LuminethMage
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5 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

So, looking at the HWG rankings according to their TTS stats, the Lumineth had very similar results, 48% win rate, which would have put them in the exactly same bracket (C tier, 45% to 50% win rate) under their tier system, as the results you have shown . : ) 

The overall numbers are a bit different, but besides KO they have also similar factions on top - Seraphon, Idoneth, DoK etc. 

It needs to be said that Those were stats from Feb 2020 to Feb 2021 (TTS only) and even though the LRL came out in June 2020 they were the second most played faction in that time period! 

 

Syar is the best performing one and then some silly Zaitrec vey spammy builds. 

 

Conclusion? I would really like to see how wide is gap between top and bottom players for the faction. The spread would be very interesting to see.

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On 2/14/2021 at 2:37 AM, Wyliekyote said:

I thin I've posted this elsewhere and maybe here too... but I too have mixed feelings about the Cathallar model.  I made a stand in (since she wasn't avail yet) out of a Tidecaster, Witch,  water elemental, and a spear from somewhere...  I still >might< get the actual model.  But until then this is my stand in.

IMG_1436.jpeg

Really nicely done! =] Thats a neat conversion you made!

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1 hour ago, Feii said:

It needs to be said that Those were stats from Feb 2020 to Feb 2021 (TTS only) and even though the LRL came out in June 2020 they were the second most played faction in that time period! 

 

Syar is the best performing one and then some silly Zaitrec vey spammy builds. 

 

Conclusion? I would really like to see how wide is gap between top and bottom players for the faction. The spread would be very interesting to see.

Yup, they mentioned that LRL was the 2nd most played faction, which makes the data a bit robuster. They also said that LRL had a lot of top 10 entries, so it's very likely that there is quite a spread as the overall result is just average. When they have more data, it would be interesting to look at things like which sub-factions are good, or what are the differences between two armies that are on the same aggregate level (eg, do most players go 3:2, 2:3 or most 4:1 or 1:4), but probably they don't have enough data for that yet. Just 11 (if I remember correctly) tournaments with even some armies only being played by a few people. And best would be to have that together with data from in-person events. 

Right now though, you can say LRL are a mid-tier faction according to the data we have. It's not a faction you can just pick-up and own left and right. They also mentioned the limitations the army has in their opinion (which is similar to what most others think): Object play, and being relatively difficult, with a lot of choices to make and therefore a lot of possibilities to make the wrong choice. 

These rankings are always a snapshot in time. You could say that the army has the potential to be a top tier army once more players learn how to play it well, but that's just a hypothesis at the moment (and in case of LRL, of course a lot will change in the coming months anyway). 

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7 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yup, they mentioned that LRL was the 2nd most played faction, which makes the data a bit robuster. They also said that LRL had a lot of top 10 entries, so it's very likely that there is quite a spread as the overall result is just average. When they have more data, it would be interesting to look at things like which sub-factions are good, or what are the differences between two armies that are on the same aggregate level (eg, do most players go 3:2, 2:3 or most 4:1 or 1:4), but probably they don't have enough data for that yet. Just 11 (if I remember correctly) tournaments with even some armies only being played by a few people. And best would be to have that together with data from in-person events. 

Right now though, you can say LRL are a mid-tier faction according to the data we have. It's not a faction you can just pick-up and own left and right. They also mentioned the limitations the army has in their opinion (which is similar to what most others think): Object play, and being relatively difficult, with a lot of choices to make and therefore a lot of possibilities to make the wrong choice. 

These rankings are always a snapshot in time. You could say that the army has the potential to be a top tier army once more players learn how to play it well, but that's just a hypothesis at the moment (and in case of LRL, of course a lot will change in the coming months anyway). 

I hope the pandemic will end and everybody will be able to play this game in person yet again! (+ we would get more stats that way btu that is a secondary concern)


LRL seems to be very hard to play army and they can appeal to different types of player. They just look super cool and my favourite aesthetics is Moontains and Wind spirits and big hammers and silly hat (and then you have the traditional/Vanari aesthetic for different players) butat the same time if I were to play them competitively I would be looking at Teclis and waiting for our next release and if he gets another spell lore making it almost 20 spells you should memorize. 

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1 hour ago, Feii said:

LRL seems to be very hard to play army and they can appeal to different types of player. They just look super cool and my favourite aesthetics is Moontains and Wind spirits and big hammers and silly hat (and then you have the traditional/Vanari aesthetic for different players) butat the same time if I were to play them competitively I would be looking at Teclis and waiting for our next release and if he gets another spell lore making it almost 20 spells you should memorize. 

I've only actually played them once in a casual game (no Teclis, no bravery shenanigans, no Eclipse spell). . It was mostly to get a feel for them and see how they felt to play with/against. There's definitely a lot to remember, but the Quartz tokens and spell cards from the box set helped a lot. I personally found them less complicated to play than Tzeentch, and far more flexible thanks to the Aetherquartz.  They're obviously also significantly more durable as a whole. In the hands of a skilled pilot, this army will definitely be a force to be reckoned with.

I agree on the aesthetics, this army instantly became competitor for my favorite once I got my hands on it! I can't wait to paint up some of the new units and try them out on the table.

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14 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

So, looking at the HWG rankings according to their TTS stats, the Lumineth had very similar results, 48% win rate, which would have put them in the exactly same bracket (C tier, 45% to 50% win rate) under their tier system, as the results you have shown . : ) 

The overall numbers are a bit different, but besides KO they have also similar factions on top - Seraphon, Idoneth, DoK etc. 

I'm going to complete a little bit my data.

Syar 57,35% wr in 38 matches

Zaitrec 47,83%wr in 46

Illiatha 37,5 in 8

Ymetrica 34,62% wr in 36

unknown sub-faction 56,25%wr in 64

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2 hours ago, Ragest said:

I'm going to complete a little bit my data.

Syar 57,35% wr in 38 matches

Zaitrec 47,83%wr in 46

Illiatha 37,5 in 8

Ymetrica 34,62% wr in 36

unknown sub-faction 56,25%wr in 64

Thank You for sharing the data! 💓

 Got the spread between Syar players and their results? 

Edited by Feii
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4 hours ago, Ragest said:

I'm going to complete a little bit my data.

Syar 57,35% wr in 38 matches

Zaitrec 47,83%wr in 46

Illiatha 37,5 in 8

Ymetrica 34,62% wr in 36

unknown sub-faction 56,25%wr in 64

I'm looking forward to when we can run proper analytics on our stats. I'd like to develop Xg type models and do proper deep dives on gaming strategies. 

I'd love to be able to qualify the winrates by expected wins by the players involved.

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16 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

I'm looking forward to when we can run proper analytics on our stats. I'd like to develop Xg type models and do proper deep dives on gaming strategies. 

I'd love to be able to qualify the winrates by expected wins by the players involved.

What do you need for that?

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14 hours ago, Ragest said:

What do you need for that?

xG and xA are more about player analysis, but it the idea could be used to analyze player impact and the normalize winrates.

xG(expected goals) is a measure of how likely a player would be to score a goal from the position they are shooting from. A tap in would be 0.9 for example, a shot from 30 yards or a very oblique angle would be 0.1. 

The best players consistently over preform their xG, however. So in theory rather than using the mean winrates we use median winrates as a substitute for xG we would have a expected wins (xW) for each faction, and then have it as a per match stat. 

So the final stat would be how likely a player near the median skill level would be to win a one of match against the full range of AoS factions represented in competitive play.

This stat would need to be reworked fairly often as meta representation could have a pretty large impact.

This also lets us isolate player skill on the scene as we can identify players who are consistently outperforming their xW. I think mean is a worse measure for this because the winrates of measured games can never actually be represented by a mean. Players win games at a rate of 33.333 in a 3 round event or a rate of 20.000 in a 5 game event. This is quite a extreme difference in data points that you want to minimize the impact of player skill determining faction expectations. 

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Our first hint what animal spirit, or animal companion/mount we might see for the River Temple. 

78510040-A5FF-4648-A622-BE667856A54A.jpeg

River Temple isn’t mentioned at all of course, but if the named Wind Spirit we’ll is also from Ymetrica, Daiko River would make sense for the River Temples. 

Edited by LuminethMage
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@LuminethMage is this excerpt from the Soulbound RPG? It sounds really interesting, sort of like a Trojan Horse ruse by the Ossiarchs (?). It is a strange decision by GW to situate so many named locations in Ymetrica, but that's how they roll I guess ... .
So I am not innovative when I am suggesting we might see moss covered Elephants?

In anticipation of Saturday I built the rest of my Dawnriders and they are really striking to behold! I know I am late to the party in that respect, but when I glued on the Spears, the Riders had won my heart.😄

Edited by Aloth_Corfiser
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11 minutes ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

@LuminethMage is this excerpt from the Soulbound RPG? It sounds really interesting, sort of like a Trojan Horse ruse by the Ossiarchs (?). It is a strange decision by GW to situate so many named locations in Ymetrica, but that's how they roll I guess ... .
So I am not innovative when I am suggesting we might see moss covered Elephants?

In anticipation of Saturday I built the rest of my Dawnriders and they are really striking to behold! I know I am late to the party in that respect, but when I glued on the Spears, the Riders had won my heart.😄

Should have mentioned it, it’s from the new White Dwarf. 

Edited by LuminethMage
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7 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Our first hint what animal spirit, or animal companion/mount we might see for the River Temple. 

78510040-A5FF-4648-A622-BE667856A54A.jpeg

River Temple isn’t mentioned at all of course, but if the named Wind Spirit we’ll is also from Ymetrica, Daiko River would make sense for the River Temples. 

I will cackle like a maniac if we get war elephants before the Slaves. Seriously tho, I reckon it’ll be more likely a Hippo or something since they’re more associated with water or rivers than elephants are.

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4 hours ago, JustAsPlanned said:

I will cackle like a maniac if we get war elephants before the Slaves. Seriously tho, I reckon it’ll be more likely a Hippo or something since they’re more associated with water or rivers than elephants are.

Yup, a hippo would make sense too. Sage would fit with an elephant. Btw., if you read the full text, these are huuuuge, so could even be something like a dinosaur. Anyway it would be a mixed creature with elements of several animals very likely. 

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11 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yup, a hippo would make sense too. Sage would fit with an elephant. Btw., if you read the full text, these are huuuuge, so could even be something like a dinosaur. Anyway it would be a mixed creature with elements of several animals very likely. 

I can't take off my mind we are going to add Ganesh to our armies xD

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