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Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion


HollowHills

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7 hours ago, woolf said:

Ok guys so when are we starting the "ideas-for-converting-Teclis-discussion", or is it even a separate thread?

was thinking if there would be a good option to make him mounted on the Celennar spirit in some way - thoughts?

I used the original model as while Celannar and the ruins are really cool I loathe what they did to the Mage himself. I think @Thiagoma made just such a thread back at the original reveal actually.

Edited by Eldarain
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13 hours ago, Wyliekyote said:

Thanks for all the sub-assembly ideas for the Dawnriders. I’m about to try one this week and not gonna lie.... a wee bit scared of mold lines and painting....  How do they compare to LoE?  He was a challenge but I kept him in three or so subs. 

While the mould lines look shocking, they are really quite soft and sit proud of everything else, so come away nicely.

just got to keep that knife sharp :) - I found them easier to clean up than LoE, there was just so much more of it on the Dawnriders.

I broke both of his arms off while painting, clever. 

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i keep thinking about the big elementals that the Lumineth have and i wonder what the remaining ones will look like. We know the mountain spirits that are inspired by yaks, the wind spirit is apparently a large anthropomorpic fox but what about river and zenith. 

I think the river spirit will be a Capybara because the Seraphon have the amphibian and reptile market cornered and the Idoneth have the sea creatures, so a creature that mainly lives in rivers and on land would be neat addition, plus it would be a sight to behold.

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39 minutes ago, Captaniser said:

i keep thinking about the big elementals that the Lumineth have and i wonder what the remaining ones will look like. We know the mountain spirits that are inspired by yaks, the wind spirit is apparently a large anthropomorpic fox but what about river and zenith. 

I think the river spirit will be a Capybara because the Seraphon have the amphibian and reptile market cornered and the Idoneth have the sea creatures, so a creature that mainly lives in rivers and on land would be neat addition, plus it would be a sight to behold.

The otter, platypus, and beaver are also good possibilities.

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59 minutes ago, Captaniser said:

i keep thinking about the big elementals that the Lumineth have and i wonder what the remaining ones will look like. We know the mountain spirits that are inspired by yaks, the wind spirit is apparently a large anthropomorpic fox but what about river and zenith. 

I think the river spirit will be a Capybara because the Seraphon have the amphibian and reptile market cornered and the Idoneth have the sea creatures, so a creature that mainly lives in rivers and on land would be neat addition, plus it would be a sight to behold.

Yeah, that’s really interesting, as these seem to be Asian inspired, could be something like a crane, snake/Chinese dragon or even unicorn (they also seemed to have watched the LotR movies closely for inspiration, so some Arwen-esque shenanigans could be in order). The River seem to be about speed, flowing movements etc., so some kind of animal which would fit with those concepts. 

I was also thinking at first about animals which aren’t associated with another faction already, but then that didn’t prevent them from using bull imagery for the mountain spirit. So could be anything.

I can’t come up with anything good right now, but it’s an interesting topic to speculate!

Zenith might not even be an animal, as they are so far down the transcendence route, that they don’t need anything like a totem anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Captaniser said:

i keep thinking about the big elementals that the Lumineth have and i wonder what the remaining ones will look like. We know the mountain spirits that are inspired by yaks, the wind spirit is apparently a large anthropomorpic fox but what about river and zenith. 

I think the river spirit will be a Capybara because the Seraphon have the amphibian and reptile market cornered and the Idoneth have the sea creatures, so a creature that mainly lives in rivers and on land would be neat addition, plus it would be a sight to behold.

I honestly think a river spirit might be a horse or centaur or something. They are fast, fitting the flowing nature of rivers, majestic, and it’s a nice call back to that LOTR scene with the Ringwraiths in the river.

 

Other than that, I think there is room for more sea serpents, dragons and reptiles in AoS. After all it’s a motif for a reason, and there is ample room for more of them in the game.

 

For zenith, I’m thinking it’s going to be some kind of hawk, Phoenix or something. There is too many associations with sun gods and birds for GW to pass it up I think.  That or it will be a dragon or even an angel, something to show the light lumineth love so much. 

Edited by Acid_Nine
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Capybaras are so cute! 

From the Battletome we have the snippet of Wind-Temple Warriors riding "long legged Beasts" and obviously the Cloud Riding Mages.
Would you also say that maybe the Wind-Temple Warriors could be riding some kind of Fox-Creatures?
For River, I hope we get some clue when the Underworld Warband is revealed! It is so nice that the woman(?) there harkens back to the Swordmaster Design - even the way she grips the Sword seems reminiscent.

As for the Aspects: We know from the partly revealed Warhammer Underworlds Card that River is about Speed etc.
So could it maybe look as follws:
Mountain = Endurance / patience and hard hitting [I really like the ability of our Mountain Spirit that they get +1 Attack when they havent charged, its so thematic]
River =Speed / Manoeuvrability
Air = ranged Combat / also Speed (??)
Zenith = Insight / Enlightment / very much magic focused (??) / a "perfect" blend between Tyrionic and Teclian abilities = "true enlightenment"  😁

The main thing that puzzles me is, if both River and Air will be very much connected with speed or if they will divide this up more strictly.

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1 hour ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:


As for the Aspects: We know from the partly revealed Warhammer Underworlds Card that River is about Speed etc.
So could it maybe look as follws:
Mountain = Endurance / patience and hard hitting [I really like the ability of our Mountain Spirit that they get +1 Attack when they havent charged, its so thematic]
River =Speed / Manoeuvrability
Air = ranged Combat / also Speed (??)
Zenith = Insight / Enlightment / very much magic focused (??) / a "perfect" blend between Tyrionic and Teclian abilities = "true enlightenment"  😁

The main thing that puzzles me is, if both River and Air will be very much connected with speed or if they will divide this up more strictly.

 

Maybe air will be more focused on pure movement, as in move 12+ inches in the movement face or something, while water might be more focused on movement manipulation.  This could be " move friendly/enemy unit 3 inches if X condition is met in X phase"

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4 hours ago, Captaniser said:

mountain spirits that are inspired by yaks, the wind spirit is apparently a large anthropomorpic fox

 

1 hour ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

Mountain = Endurance / patience and hard hitting
River =Speed / Manoeuvrability
Air = ranged Combat / also Speed (??)
Zenith = Insight / Enlightment / very much magic focused (??) / a "perfect" blend between Tyrionic and Teclian abilities = "true enlightenment"

Man I gotta re-read the battle tome.... lol.  

But I really love these ideas!! So, what about these other TERMS? Scinari, Vanari and Alarith, are they houses?  sub-sections?  We have the Nations.. are these sub-nations?

Mountain:  Spirit=Yaks IF we go along an Asian/Eastern influence.   Rune=Alaithi which turns into Alarith as a title/keyword. Trait= Endurance

Wind:  Spirit=Fox? ; Asian influences usually reference cunning, trickery, or  sometimes associated with transformation.  And they are often portrayed as women.  The tome talks about an Ephemeral Force/Hurricane's Anger.   Rune = Oreali so what's their title/keyword?  Orealith?  It reminds me of the saying  a reed bends in the wind.  Trait=? everywhere?  Speed?  And dragons!

River: Spirit=? How I'd love to see dragons!!  Something different than the Deepkin... Do we go towards a Naiades/Nymphs or more eastern?  Salamander?  Selkie?  Kelpie's would also be cool!  Rune = Ydriliqi (say that fast three times)...  keyword is unpronounceable.... lol, Ydrilith?  They could be Quick Thinking, unstoppable.  Trait = I vote for maneuverability.  Water flows around and over everything.  Found this fun quote:  “If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”

And Zenith!  Spirit = Ummm.. Dragons.  ha!  But getting the Phoenix/Bird models back in play would rock.  Rune - Thalari.  Where Light rules alone.  The perfect combo of both houses of Teclis and Tyrion as Aloth said!  Title/keyword could be Thalarith.  Trait = dig the ideas of highly attuned magical powers, not quite Teclis though.  I'm concerned about the "rules alone" part.  Would they be very limited on allies?  Really really haughty aelves?

And end of my ramblings....

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@WyliekyoteThe Alarith are the Lumineth who are devoted to the Element of Stone / the Spirits of the Mountains.
Overall Aelves / Lumineth who dedicate themselves to one of the Elements are called Aelementiri. They are organized in Temples (one for each Element River, Mountain, Wind, Zenith). These Temples can be found in all the Great Nations. (4 Teclian Nations and 4 Tyrionic Nations)
At the Moment we do not know how exactly the Great Nations are governed. However Iliatha is matriarchal and there seem to be several Matriarchs. Zaitrec could be a Magocracy.
The Tyrionic Nations are described as militarized in several Warhammer Community Articles - someone called them "Aelf-Prussia" :D
The Term Vanari is used to describe the
regular Army of the Lumineth: Your Spear-Aelves, Bow-Aelves, Riders, etc. (in the Battletome they are much more diverse with Chariots, Scouts, etc.) The Vanari are a Militia Force - sadly this is only a one liner in the Battletome as far as I know. It is however stated that the Lumineth would like to stay away from war - but now they feel that their Hand has been forced. They want to defend the Realms and most overall Hysh.
We do not know much about the Cathallars - they seem to be a sort of Priesthood maybe? (It is theirJob to lessen the emotional burden of the Lumineth and to trap negative Emotion in Aetherquarz, which they then discard.) 

My personal wishful Theory is that the Cathallars have some connection to the Goddess Lileath from Warhammer Fantasy - the goblet, the mourning, etc. It just fits - hopefully we wil find out in our 2nd Battletome in 3 Years. 😅😭 

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Ahhh!!  Makes more sense now....  

8 Nations... now, with the LRL recent release, how looooong will we have to wait for another set of Nations, ie the Tyronic side?  The next battle tome?  They come out what, 2-3 years?  That's a long wait!!!

4 Temples found in any Nation.  Thus an Alarith Stonemage, or a Thalarith Zenithmage,  or Orealith Windmage.... could be from any nation.  Hmmm I can dig it.

Vanari is to War/warriors, as Scinari is to....  Preists/??

Now, with the Vanari, theres another keyword: Auralan...  And only with the Sentinels and Wardens..I've not found a "meaning " of it in the battle tome yet.  Does this relate to Temples or Nations?

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39 minutes ago, Wyliekyote said:

Ahhh!!  Makes more sense now....  

8 Nations... now, with the LRL recent release, how looooong will we have to wait for another set of Nations, ie the Tyronic side?  The next battle tome?  They come out what, 2-3 years?  That's a long wait!!!

4 Temples found in any Nation.  Thus an Alarith Stonemage, or a Thalarith Zenithmage,  or Orealith Windmage.... could be from any nation.  Hmmm I can dig it.

Vanari is to War/warriors, as Scinari is to....  Preists/??

Now, with the Vanari, theres another keyword: Auralan...  And only with the Sentinels and Wardens..I've not found a "meaning " of it in the battle tome yet.  Does this relate to Temples or Nations?

Hello!

I could be wrong here, but 'Auralan' just looks to be the name of the unit, in the same way that each unit has its name as a 'keyword' in the battletome.
Its not on its own as keyword, its either  'auralan wardens' or 'auralan sentinels'
I guess so it can be the target of a specific ability if required?

But I think you're correct in noting no spell or ability calls them out specifically, as yet. 
"Vanari is to War/warriors, as Scinari is to....  Preists/??" - surely so :)

 

Edited by mjay9090
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oh oh oh lore talk, exciting! Just throwing in some comments for further discussion: 

  • Scinari are mages. The battletome says that the Scinari are the "mage caste". Tyrion's Degree on military reorganisation puts them on top of leading the Vanari. That's why you see Scinari Cathallar leading the Vanari units, and they are our only General choice besides special characters (Stonemages lead the Alarith Temples in the same way). I don't know if the authors used the word "caste" in the formal sense, because it clashes somewhat with how the Lumineth are depicted otherwise in the BT. But it could be another reason why people try to join the temples, even though this can be deadly: To have a chance to climb the social ladder
  • Syar is stated as a Magocracy in the BT, the Matrions of Iliatha also seem to be mages, and Zaitrec is very likely a Magocracy - so all four nations on the Teclian side might be that. Mages seem to be cleary in the lead there. 
  • In GW's elf societies mages and priests are often the same, and fulfill the same societal roles. So the Cathallar's could easily also be described as a priestly order, although formally they are likely a mage order (but we do not know, maybe there are other xxx Cathallar's besides the Scinari Cathallar). 
  • Auralan - I forgot, but it's meaning is mentioned in the BT if you look under the Vanari section. I think it's something like "shining" or similar. But I could be completely wrong, lol. It does not relate to Temples or Nations. The Vanari are the citizen militia of all the nations and have the same organization in all of them (as far as we know now). They have nothing to do with the Temples, so Auralan is also not connected to the Temples. 
  • The Temples exist in all 8 nations, but some are deeper connected to one of those - like Alarith is to Ymetrica. It's possible that let's say the River Temple, is connected more deeply to a Tyrionic Nation (in the example in the book - a River Temple fights an Orruks horde in a Tyrionic Nation).
  • Dragon/Phoenixes - I don't think we see dragons as a Temple totem animal (at least not winged dragons). I think they'll come with Tyrion and one of his nations. All the dragon/phoenix symbols we see on the units and in the BT are linked to Tyrion and the Sun Spirit. Often directly together with Teclis and Cellanar symbols in the same unit, or on opposing sides of artwork. 
  • It's likely they were referencing Sparta and Athens with Tyrion and Teclis. But the Tyrionic side does sound like Prussia. : )
  • The 4 Nations we have seen so far all have a link to one of the former 8 nations of Ulthuan. Zaitrec - Saphery, Ymetrica - Chrace etc. And we haven't seen the new Caledor yet, which would be on the Tyrionic side. If we ever see dragons, I think it's with Tyrion and the heavy cavalry from that nation. 
  • Zenith mages are really rare and powerful. It's unclear if they even form a proper Temple like the other 3. I doubt that the mage in the Underworld warband is a Zenith mage because of that.  But he could be, it looks like he has either the Zenith symbol on his breath, or the full 4 elements one, which also would make sense for a Zenith mage. The owl (symbol of wisdom) would also be fitting. Alternatively, he could be also a powerful Scinari. Really looking forward to that one.
  • In that respect, I think the Swordwoman won't be from a River Temple. Her armour looks more like Vanari Armour (I think the River Temple will also get some special armour like the Alarith) and she doesn't have any kind of River symbol on her as far as we can tell. All Alarith units feature the mountain symbol prominently. The banner looks like a tower or something similar. She could be a loreseeker for example, or another type of Vanari. The Underworld bands receive a ton of cards, so one having something to do with River, doesn't have to mean much. Could be totally wrong of course, lol. 

 

 

Edited by LuminethMage
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27 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

 

  • In that respect, I think the Swordwoman won't be from a River Temple. Her armour looks more like Vanari Armour (I think the River Temple will also get some special armour like the Alarith) and she doesn't have any kind of River symbol on her as far as we can tell. All Alarith units feature the mountain symbol prominently. The banner looks like a tower or something similar. She could be a loreseeker for example, or another type of Vanari. The Underworld bands receive a ton of cards, so one having something to do with River, doesn't have to mean much. Could be totally wrong of course, lol. 

 

 

I really hope the Swordswoman is just a generic Vanari General!

 

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I’m fairly certain she’s river based on the teaser trailer for them. This card has a picture of her and the title of the ability seems pretty telling.

0C6A7BAB-9D94-4109-82C4-0282520AA2AC.png

EDIT: Also, with the staff have a Zenith symbol shaped top, his collar making the zenith logo, and the other zenith logo shaped charms hanging from the collar, I reckon the mage is quite likely zenith. 

Edited by Tiberius501
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The mage does have a Zenith feeling about him! The name of the band would be also fitting with that. Judging from the BT, I just think they'd provide more of a fantastic version of them (some kind of being of light), as they are that rare, and powerful. But I'd not complain if he turns out to be one. I'd love the model and to have a Zenith Mage. 

On the card it says something like "can bestow on friendly fighter", so I'm not sure if that card is even used by the sword fighter, or just put on them as a buff. I don't really know how Underworlds works - but I checked and saw each warband gets a lot of cards, so there could be one for every element in there for example, and not tied to one. The card also has the full elemental symbol on its upper corner and says it's part of the "elemental" category. And again in the picture, you can see something like a tower on the breastplate, not a River symbol. And the armour is very similar to the general Vanari style. 

But from the general looks it also could be a River fighter of course! 

Always fun to see what different conclusions everyone draws from the same source. In a month or so, we likely start to get a bit more info about them. 

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11 minutes ago, mjay9090 said:

Excuse my newness, but can the models from underworlds be used in an age of sigmar game? or are they just nice collectibles?

 

They can be used. They all get rules to make them playable in AoS. But their actual usefulness depends. In many cases they are just used to add variety to existing units (the archer and Stoneguard in the Lumineth warband could be used like that for example), but their warscroll isn't used. A few are actually used. I heard that the new DoK one is quite useful (because the wounds on the leader can be allocated to the warband), but I'm not a DoK expert, so this might not be true. 

You can find their warscroll here: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos_the_blade-coven_en.pdf 

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24 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

Huh... I only just noticed that Stonemage stance doesn’t replace the Usual Rend Immunity stance. All this time I thought you had to replace one with the other. Suddenly Alarith units are even better to me haha. 

Yeah - the stances are weird. At the moment they have not much meaning besides you having to declare them officially. Could be that's because of something that happens in the future with other temples. But I doubt it because they likely also will all have their own keywords, so it's a bit weird. Maybe they were exclusive at first and they changed it later down the road.

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