Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[JonnyTheKing]

Do you guys think it’s a good time to start Lumineth or wait a little bit for FAQs and future point changes? I’ve seen a significant amount of people saying Lumineth aren’t a fun army to face, kinda scared my opponents won’t have fun, what have been your experiences so far with opponents?

[Chumphammer]

5 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Do you guys think it’s a good time to start Lumineth or wait a little bit for FAQs and future point changes? I’ve seen a significant amount of people saying Lumineth aren’t a fun army to face, kinda scared my opponents won’t have fun, what have been your experiences so far with opponents?

People only say that because of A: Teclis B: Sentinal Spam

And also they probably havent even played vs them yet. People are very vocal against new things

[JonnyTheKing]

Just now, Chumphammer said:

People only say that because of A: Teclis B: Sentinal Spam

And also they probably havent even played vs them yet. People are very vocal against new things

In fairness the main two people I’ve heard this from I sat and witnessed the games myself and the main problem was Teclis and the Sentinels, also the veil lady, forget her name. They felt the army was a tad uninteractive? 

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

In fairness the main two people I’ve heard this from I sat and witnessed the games myself and the main problem was Teclis and the Sentinels, also the veil lady, forget her name. They felt the army was a tad uninteractive? 

If you don't like their play style yourself and find them not interactive enough, that's a much better reason not to start with it, then what someone else feels after having played a game or two against them with a certain build (and either with proxies or digitally). Most armies have some elements which some people might not find fun. You'll have a pretty hard time to find any army which some people haven't complained about at some point. 

It's often all in the eyes of the beholder. One complain is that Teclis auto-casts for example. But I'm not sure in case he'd roll everything with a +4 or +5 every phase, it would be more fun for everyone involved (in addition to the tons of spells you'll cast in a Vanari-focused army). So, in the end it just means that strong caster armies aren't fun for some people.

But you do not even have to play Lumineth like that (you don't need to take Teclis, a ton of Sentinels or even a Cathallar) if you don't want to or you know that your friends or your local club hates that. So as long as you like the models and play style there is no reason not to start with them right now. 

@GrimDork I think the FAQ means that the devs don't intend Shining Company to be re-set up under any circumstances. So, I personally won't use Soulscream Bridge in that way. At the very least you might want to check with your opponent first. Technically it should be ok though. Shining Company doesn't say "only at the start of the battle" or anything like that, and Soulscream Bridge is a set-up as you say. 

[Wyliekyote]

On 9/1/2020 at 1:06 PM, Aelfric said:

I would leave out Endless spells at 1000 points and wait til 2000.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 5:43 PM, LuminethMage said:

1,000 (990) list will be (Zaitrec) Scinari Cathallar, Eltharion, 3 x 10 Warden, 1 x 5  Dawnrider, 1 x 10 Sentinel

Thanks all for the thoughts!!  I'm trying to build my list around what I actually have (not all painted mind, but have) so that list you've shared is a pretty dang good one!  Although I only have 2 Wardens, and 2 Dawnriders. Plus LoE and a Cathallar stand-in.  I'm going to get 1 set of sentinels and the endless spells.  So hopefully soon I'll get a game in and see how they roll. 

[Tiberius501]

Gosh darn dingle having ADD (not the hyper active one, the one that makes you day dream and fail to focus) certainly makes painting these fiddly models hard. But I have finished Eltharion (besides the base obviously). I may change the ruins under him to more of a grey though, I feel like the beige blends into his armour a little too much.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Tiberius501

[woolf]

8 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

In fairness the main two people I’ve heard this from I sat and witnessed the games myself and the main problem was Teclis and the Sentinels, also the veil lady, forget her name. They felt the army was a tad uninteractive? 

there is a Youtube channel called season of war that has a bunch of lumineth battle reports that you migth want to check out as well

[Yondaime]

8 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

People only say that because of A: Teclis B: Sentinal Spam

I tryed teclis in A LOT of games in TS. i really wanted to make those 660 worth, but it really isnt, in paper he is godlike but in the end you pay those points for 4 spells a turn.

 

Yes maybe vs a heavy caster list he can do his job but thats it, if you are vs the likes of KO, DOK, khorne etc you are playing with basically 1400pt vs 2000

 

I cant see him as a treat like the 30" no look MW spam sentinels

Edited September 3, 2020 by Yondaime

[Howdyhedberg]

4 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

 

 

Lovely painted!

I kind of want to get teclis to just paint the model, but it's supposed to cost a lot and it seems like a lot of you don't feel he's worth the points. 

Maybe I should just wait with him? (Or never get him).

[Tiberius501]

I would’ve gotten him to paint but yeah... he costs more than Archaon which is a little bonkers. 

[LuminethMage]

5 hours ago, Tiberius501 said:

Gosh darn dingle having ADD (not the hyper active one, the one that makes you day dream and fail to focus) certainly makes painting these fiddly models hard. But I have finished Eltharion (besides the base obviously). I may change the ruins under him to more of a grey though, I feel like the beige blends into his armour a little too much.

 

 

Awesome, such a nice colour for the cloak! 🥰

[Nubgan]

14 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

In fairness the main two people I’ve heard this from I sat and witnessed the games myself and the main problem was Teclis and the Sentinels, also the veil lady, forget her name. They felt the army was a tad uninteractive? 

What makes this army uninteractive is the amount of things you either just do, or the abilities that this army has without dice rolling.

I honestly think I have been suckered in purely due to the aesthetic without even thinking through the consequences on the board as someone who only plays once a month. The army has slow play and yawnfest wrote all over it with all the extra stuff you have to remember, say, do each phase. Its probably what makes the army so uninteresting to play against.

[JonnyTheKing]

1 hour ago, Nubgan said:

What makes this army uninteractive is the amount of things you either just do, or the abilities that this army has without dice rolling.

I honestly think I have been suckered in purely due to the aesthetic without even thinking through the consequences on the board as someone who only plays once a month. The army has slow play and yawnfest wrote all over it with all the extra stuff you have to remember, say, do each phase. Its probably what makes the army so uninteresting to play against.

I agree from what I’ve seen so far on there maybe being too much going on, you only need to look at all the warscrolls to see that. I’m playing against them soon so hopefully that will help me decide if it’s an army I want to play with friends or not

[Tiberius501]

Yeah I’m slightly concerned too with how annoying they are to fight. I play pretty much exclusively with friends and family so hopefully there are ways to mitigate some of their unfriendly elements. I won’t take a Cathallar for a start. 

[Chumphammer]

I am really interested to see how many Teclis models sell.

1: People feel its OP or a trap so might not play it
2: A lot feel it is an ugly model
3: If its High cost
4: LRL Hype died, yes some are still interested and going, but I have seen a lot of kits on sale in Buy/Sell FB and not huge numbers playing them/posting pics.

It's a shame but I am interested to see how it goes.

My hype is pretty low but not dead. I wont be buying as much as I would have but thats GW loss and my gain. Still going to be getting endless spells/Warscrolls/MEga Cow, 2 x 10 Sentinals, 1 stone mage and 20 Stoneguard

I think i will just do an alt model or keep my old elf mage as my Cathallar as I am not keen on the model
 

[LuminethMage]

That’ll be interesting to see, yup. Teclis seems to be really controversial. The pricing of the range could be also a problem (if it turns out to be true what we have seen so far), Similar priced armies like Fyreslayer and DoK don’t seem to sell well either. 

On the other hand, still hard to say - with them not even being out yet, and no tournament scene going on in many places etc. 

Sadly we likely never will really find out how it went.

Im still looking forward to them, and will buy at least one kit of everything from the range. 

[Tiberius501]

I’m still hyped. I love these guys!

[Aloth_Corfiser]

What do you most looking forward to, @Tiberius501?

My Plan for a roughly 1500 points force is this:

Nation: Zaitrec
HEROES:
Scinari Cathallar (General), Trait: Fast Learner, Artefact: Gift of Celennar,
Scinari Cathallar, Silver Wand
UNITS:
20 Vanari Auralan Wardens
10 Vanari Auralan Wardens
20 Vanari Auralan Sentinels
10 Vanari Auralan Sentinels
5 Vanari Dawnriders
5 Vanari Dawnriders
Battalion: Auralan Legion
Endles Spell: Hyshian Twinstones

1470 Points, 90 Wounds, 4 Drops

The main Idea was that I wanted the same Number of Sentinels and Wardens. At the moment I am very tempted to even go with one Unit of 10 and one Unit of 5 Dawnriders - so that all Units have this distribution of a smaller and a bigger Unit Size each.
However this is only the long-term plan. 😆 
First there is a Box of Sentinels, the Endless Spells and a Cathallar on the Menu. At the moment I have more than enough to paint.
The Sentinels alone kept my Hype for so long. They are magnificent.

[Incineroar87]

11 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

That’ll be interesting to see, yup. Teclis seems to be really controversial. The pricing of the range could be also a problem (if it turns out to be true what we have seen so far), Similar priced armies like Fyreslayer and DoK don’t seem to sell well either. 

On the other hand, still hard to say - with them not even being out yet, and no tournament scene going on in many places etc. 

Sadly we likely never will really find out how it went.

Im still looking forward to them, and will buy at least one kit of everything from the range. 

This!

Lumineth likely will eventually get decent tournament usage despite the fan controversy if you can even call it that.  IDK, Fyreslayers and Bonereapers all saw initial fanhate because of the model direction not aligning with the demands of fans and apparently didn't sell well, but they have dominated tournaments in in the past and have decent levels of usage and popularity post release, more so than other armies.  I expect Lumineth to follow that pattern. 

I think looking back every at single AOS army release, there has seen a lot of hate, even popular fan armies like Ironjaws, Gloomspite and Sylvaneth have copped it.  It's hard to see if the hate is the majority or just a vocal minority though vs the actual people actually buying models.

[Tiberius501]

@Aloth_Corfiser, that’s a cool looking list. I too want there to be the same number of Warden units as Sentinels. Something cool about the ranks of spears in front of the ranks of bows, super old school high elf.

I think I’m a weirdo but I’m mad keen for the moo mountains and moo guards. Them moo mountains are so ****** majestic! I’m also really looking forward to getting my hands on the Sentinels as well, really love archers so it’s awesome we get proper rank and file ones.  

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

7 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

This!

Lumineth likely will eventually get decent tournament usage despite the fan controversy if you can even call it that.  IDK, Fyreslayers and Bonereapers all saw initial fanhate because of the model direction not aligning with the demands of fans and apparently didn't sell well, but they have dominated tournaments in in the past and have decent levels of usage and popularity post release, more so than other armies.  I expect Lumineth to follow that pattern. 

I think looking back every at single AOS army release, there has seen a lot of hate, even popular fan armies like Ironjaws, Gloomspite and Sylvaneth have copped it.  It's hard to see if the hate is the majority or just a vocal minority though vs the actual people actually buying models.

If I had to guess most of the hate comes from a fairly small group who either are still attached to WFB (and whilst I cannot blame them they are taking it out on the wrong people) or those who saw the initial teasers then when the models and rules did not line up with what they imagined decried the whole thing. then there seems to be a handful who just seem to hate warhammer in general.

[whispersofblood]

Curious, without Teclis how much dmg a turn are you guys putting out? I haven't got anywhere near the hundreds even weighting expected MW as 1.5 dmg. Have any of you guys?

[Acid_Nine]

3 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

This!

Lumineth likely will eventually get decent tournament usage despite the fan controversy if you can even call it that.  IDK, Fyreslayers and Bonereapers all saw initial fanhate because of the model direction not aligning with the demands of fans and apparently didn't sell well, but they have dominated tournaments in in the past and have decent levels of usage and popularity post release, more so than other armies.  I expect Lumineth to follow that pattern. 

I think looking back every at single AOS army release, there has seen a lot of hate, even popular fan armies like Ironjaws, Gloomspite and Sylvaneth have copped it.  It's hard to see if the hate is the majority or just a vocal minority though vs the actual people actually buying models.

Yea, I think that Once The lumineth fully release we will be getting more data beyond TTS.  The wardens look really useful, and with the right spells I think they will be pretty versatile depending on the spells. The ethereal blessings one in particular is something that I am pretty keen to look at, especially with the re-rolling 1’s battalion. If all spells go off then you can have a pretty solid front line against rend. When combat starts pop an aether quartz on them and  cast power of Hysh, and you could be getting some good damage out of them  (I hope.) 

i can’t wait till I can get my whole army together. The price is what’ll get me though. Never played a horde army first hand, so seeing that it will be 420$ for the core troops will be harsh

[Tiberius501]

Yeah it tends to be the vocal minority who are the loudest. I’d expect these glorious brozillas to do as well as any of the other armies. People who like things don’t tend to post as much on GW articles (or anywhere for that matter unless it’s a specific community like us). They’ll just get it and be happy with it. It’s the people who don’t like things that speak up, so it can seem skewed. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Tiberius501

[LuminethMage]

It’s propably pretty clear but I’m still super hyped about this army. I’m sitting here painting the really gorgeous Warden and my first Dawnrider, while giggling in anticipation for tomorrow. Having a blast! I like everything about this army, it’s focus on magic, the weird mountains dudes, it’s play style, lore and so on. 

I really hope that it sells well and many people enjoy the army (both playing with and against it). And there are some signs that it will be pretty popular: there is quite a lot of activity on FB, Reddit etc., Lumineth vids and podcasts get relatively high views, and also this thread gets a lot of posts and views. When Warhammer Weekly asked 1,000 people a few weeks back about their main army, the Lumineth already got a few more votes than DoK and Fyreslayers (still was on the lower end though). 

And there is definitely a lot of grumbling from the group mentioned in the posts above, so hopefully it’s not that many people. There are also some with a pretty clear agenda. 

That said, the box GW put out likely didn’t sell that well (for whatever reason), and it seems that a significant part of the former HE players didn’t like what they see, and it looks like the Lumineth are going to be expensive.

So I’m genuinely interested to see how well they’ll do. 

Anyway looking forward to see more painted models, and the first real battle reports : )