Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[woolf]

1 hour ago, mystycalchemy said:

 

 

These are both really helpful tips! I'll keep it in mind and play around with my list, see what works! Unfortunately, having him switch armies isn't an option at the moment, I've been playing AoS for a while now, while he only got interested with OBR, so that's his only army (Besides an Akhelian King and a Leviadon remaining from his previously sold Deepkin army, he just liked those two models and kept them for display!)

btw another thing you can do against nagash is to throw the solar flare spell at him to give him -2 to cast. and you could do it through the portal to avoid hitting yourself. eg have a cathallar outside nagash unbind range throw the portal next to Teclis, then use 2 cast to throw Solar flare at 12 through portal (which will also dispel it btw) likely being able to throw some mortal wounds at a unit of mortek guard and hitting Nagash with the neg2 to cast and he needs a natural 10 to unbind, use the second spell to give protection of teclis, which he now needs natural 12 to unbind. in his turn teclis will likely be able to unbind quite a few of his spells with +2 to unbind vs his +1 to cast..

[ArchaicArc]

Think I’ve finally settled on the gold mix that will be the bases for my army’s armor.

 

note it’s just the gold on the blade itself, the metal connecting the blade to the haft was another mix I tested, but it’s fugly, so please ignore...

 

and this is just the base colour, without pin-shading and highlights that I plan to do on the model itself.

[ObsidianCrane]

5 hours ago, woolf said:

And when it comes to tournament play I dont think NPE should be a concern at all, if you really want to maximise then just get the "best" and most "OP" army yourself... So for a show that is explicitly focused on tournament play I find it maybe a bit strange to put so much emphasis on it. When it comes to them discussing the overall health of the game etc, yea I think its a valid thing to discuss. And for local play with friends, for sure NPE can be an issue but in a healthy group it will self-regulate

I don’t come at NPE from an AoS perspective (I have plenty of experience with NPE through other games), but LRL doesn’t seem to be able to generate the sort of situation that is really required to shape a broad NPE against the list.

There are already lists that counter it (various alpha-striking lists and some others depending on the LRL strategy you are looking at) and a number of strategic approaches that mitigate the effectiveness of LRL lists based on Teclis.

Much of the complaints I’ve seen in videos have been more rooted in having to actually consider something new (a magic phase dominant list with board control tools in that phase. It seems that is new?) rather than the LRL actually being strong inherently. The cries of NPE seem much more tied to a new list that requires revision of strategy rather than the LRL’s ability to inherently dominate games.

TBH alpha-strike lists of the sort that can kill Teclis turn 1 seem far more damaging to the game (ie NPE) from a new player perspective than anything LRL is bringing to the table. 

[Chumphammer]

15 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

That's the important thing - if your local meta is like that, then you have to adapt. 100% agree. I just had the feeling going through several of the posts that some of the discussion here focused a bit too much on what some hypothetical hyper competitive tournament circumstances might be, which most of us won't encounter (especially not under current circumstances ...). I saw that some people who wanted to try him out got discouraged to do it - which I think is not necessary right now. He looks like a lot of fun, and in many circumstances won't be killed in T1. If you like him try him out, and see how it goes. 

If there are no points adjustments, things like Seraphon and Changehost will be difficult to handle for Lumineth I think whatever you chose. If you have Teclis you risk losing him early and face issues on objectives  if not, it'll be hard to deal with all the incoming WM those factions can dish out, and you spells getting shut down more regularly. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out, and what lists turn out to be good in the end. 

Looking forward to your next update on how it goes with your list.

Points changes out!

Salamanders went up

Flamers/Horrors went up 20pts. Gaunt Summoner only gets 5 horrors not 10

Pentifix elite lose +1AS and get Reroll 1's in combat.


As for people being put off taking Teclis, dont! and I am sorry if I led to anyone thinking that.

Realmlords are a brand new race and people should be encouraged to try anything and everything. Just cause something doesnt work in 1 meta, or game group, or even persons playstyle, doesnt mean that is the same issue for everyone.

Please, play whatever you want, and dont let people dissuade you from taking what you want. I will always offer advice or counter options, but doesnt mean you have to take them or I know better

[Congratz]

So what are your thought on the army? Yes, i know it might be a bit early to tell

Considering starting on Lummineth but a bit unsure so i got a few questions

* Are they any good?  Where are they placed on the so called "Tier List"
* How fun are they to play? 
* How hard are they to play? (Not the biggest mastermind over here)

Thank you before hand

[woolf]

11 minutes ago, Congratz said:

So what are your thought on the army? Yes, i know it might be a bit early to tell

Considering starting on Lummineth but a bit unsure so i got a few questions

* Are they any good?  Where are they placed on the so called "Tier List"
* How fun are they to play? 
* How hard are they to play? (Not the biggest mastermind over here)

Thank you before hand

seems they can be pretty good but not an auto win by any means, probably top half by the armies fair to say but unlikely top 3. although ofc very hard to tell this early. I would guess "A-tier" (also this is a moving target as its relative to other armies, eg we just saw OBR getting a nerf, slaanesh was nerfed earlier and seems also tzeentch and seraphon got some point increases)

fun I suppose is quite subjective, for me they seem loads of fun with much going on and great looking models that will cater for good hobby as well

i think they will be fairly difficult to play since they rely on synergies and have quite a lot to keep track of with aetherquartz on each unit, spell options on many units, restrictive movement with shining company and not a lot of movement to buffer bad positioning). and they kinda need their buffs to work well. but I suppose this is also a bit subjective what you think is easy/hard. they have only 10 warscrolls so listbuilding eg is probably easier than in some larger factions

cheers

[Chumphammer]

Anyone thought of lists with IDK allies?

 

[Tiberius501]

How do you guys think we’ll fair vs Ossiarchs? With Katakros giving everyone a 3+ save and the catapults murdering big groups, not to mention the hilarious amount of healing they can do, does our force and mass mortal wounds do well vs them?

[woolf]

21 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Anyone thought of lists with IDK allies?

 

was thinking ishlaen guard could be useful to tie something up and maybe even with a soulscryer but not sure it's worth it over dawnriders

[woolf]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

How do you guys think we’ll fair vs Ossiarchs? With Katakros giving everyone a 3+ save and the catapults murdering big groups, not to mention the hilarious amount of healing they can do, does our force and mass mortal wounds do well vs them?

I think we should have some decent tools to handle them. our damage mainly comes through mortal wounds so save should not be a huge issue. the catapults can be pretty annoying although a bit swingy and they can threaten our heroes for sure and also snipe the wizards in our vanari units, but on other hand with dawnriders and speed of hysh we should be able to lock down the catapults in the back field. and our sentinels can return the favour by pinging off their heroes to reduce access to discipline points

Edited July 20, 2020 by woolf

[Aelfric]

45 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Anyone thought of lists with IDK allies?

 

I'm including 10 Thralls and a Soulscryer in some lists.  That's 250 points all told, which gives me a deepstriking force with a 6" re-rollable charge and though Thralls are not that defensive they can hit pretty hard.   I like having something in reserve and it  gives your opponent more to think about.

[Chumphammer]

34 minutes ago, Aelfric said:

I'm including 10 Thralls and a Soulscryer in some lists.  That's 250 points all told, which gives me a deepstriking force with a 6" re-rollable charge and though Thralls are not that defensive they can hit pretty hard.   I like having something in reserve and it  gives your opponent more to think about.

Hmm could get a Scyer and a unit of 20 for 370pts that could really hit some like hard. 

Could also do Akhelian Ishlaen Guard for some flying obj block unit, 

or 6 Akhelian Morrsarr Guard for a flying assault unit 

[Aelfric]

16 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Hmm could get a Scyer and a unit of 20 for 370pts that could really hit some like hard. 

Could also do Akhelian Ishlaen Guard for some flying obj block unit, 

or 6 Akhelian Morrsarr Guard for a flying assault unit 

Yes, there's several possibilities - It's finding the points for them that's the difficult bit.  

[woolf]

I think the soulscryer + something is what could add to LRL as giving access to deep strike which the book otherwise lacks (or maybe just eels for a flying unit) unfortunately the soulscryer is quite an expensive tax for that alone so not sure if it's that viable in the end. The reverse of adding lumineth to a deepkin list would have been more interesting imo but alas that's not possible

[Chumphammer]

I kinda like this:

Zaitrec:

Scinari Cathallar - General, Fast Learner
Scinari Cathallar -  Silver Wand
30 Vanari Auralan Wardens
10 Vanari Auralan Wardens
10 Vanari Auralan Wardens
20 Vanari Auralan Sentinels
10 Vanari Auralan Sentinels
10 Vanari Auralan Sentinels
Auralan Legion
Hyshian Twinstones
Allies (370/400)
Isharann Soulscryer
20 Namarti Thralls
125W, 4 Drops,  40pts left for whatever

8 Casts, 8 dispels 

[Sleepers]

Take a tidecaster, avalenor, and mountain spirit for possible -3 to be hit, combined with shining company for -4 to be hit. Of course it only affects one unit with the -4 but could be pretty hilarious against some hard hitting enemy units that think they can hit on 2’s. It’s also only 100 points for the tidecaster, but yeah, this is more just for the funny moment more than anything else. I doubt it’s a competitive option.

[Aelfric]

It'll be interesting to see if any of the new Gargants will have a place in a Lumineth army.

[Acid_Nine]

Wellllll....

 

I finally got my chameleon paints from greenstuff world and I gotta say I'm a bit dissapointed by the Burning gold. It turned out a lot more greenish gold instead of orangy gold like advertised, so that makes me sad. But! The other paints I got are pretty nice, so I may be using them on the weapons or the shield or something. I may try to use it on one model, but without an airbrush I think I am stuck brushing it on, and the shoulder things on the wardens is fairly intricate. Kinda sad that I waited a month for those paints

 

Will post some pictures later when I can 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Acid_Nine

[LuminethMage]

Looking forward to the pics! I'm still assembling mine, and waiting for some paints from GW (so many have been sold out, also locally). But, for people who are excited about the Tyrionic side - it looks like GW already have some of the models planned out.

Not only do we see the face of the dragon-like creature on the picture of the Tyrionic city (in the BT and on the ruler, as well as on the Dawnrider banner) on their breastplate - but maybe also a symbol of the face of the Sun Spirit (The Realm's Edge, weird looking face which would fit well with a spirit of light) which would come with Tyrion. It would fit thematically if it was the Sun Spirit, because the other breastplates show Celennar, moon and sun symbols. 

Initially, after reading the BT, I thought next up would be the Wind Temple, as all their units were described in detail (archer cavalry on long-legged beast, cloud riding mages, and a named, fox masked archer spirit of the wind), but if they already have ideas for the sculptures of the Tyrion side, we might see some kind of addition not too far in the future. 

 

[Prince Tûrion Rilyalöce]

20 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Looking forward to the pics! I'm still assembling mine, and waiting for some paints from GW (so many have been sold out, also locally). But, for people who are excited about the Tyrionic side - it looks like GW already have some of the models planned out.

Not only do we see the face of the dragon-like creature on the picture of the Tyrionic city (in the BT and on the ruler, as well as on the Dawnrider banner) on their breastplate - but maybe also a symbol of the face of the Sun Spirit (The Realm's Edge, weird looking face which would fit well with a spirit of light) which would come with Tyrion. It would fit thematically if it was the Sun Spirit, because the other breastplates show Celennar, moon and sun symbols. 

Initially, after reading the BT, I thought next up would be the Wind Temple, as all their units were described in detail (archer cavalry on long-legged beast, cloud riding mages, and a named, fox masked archer spirit of the wind), but if they already have ideas for the sculptures of the Tyrion side, we might see some kind of addition not too far in the future. 

 

Where are you hearing this? Very interested...

[Icarion]

I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect the Lumineth to be significantly expanded with their next battle tome. Down the road, GW has certainly laid the seeds for futures miniature releases. But I cant imagine that being earlier than 2-3 years off.

Considering what GW's current trend with updated battletome releases, our most likely/hopeful outcome would be that when AOS 3.0 gets released, and they start the battletome refresh cycle again, we might get another generic hero to accompany that release and updated tome. 

That still would be a few years off.

 

[LuminethMage]

2 minutes ago, Prince Tûrion Rilyalöce said:

Where are you hearing this? Very interested...

Not hearing anything, sorry, I didn't want to raise expectations too much. I agree with Athrawes above. Whatever we get as an extension of the line, it's not coming within a year or so. So let me expand a bit to make it more clear what I wanted to say above: 

I initially thought our next expansions will focus on the Teclian Temples, because there is a big focus on them in the BT, lore-wise they are already part of the army we are seeing right now (Teclian Vanguard), and the authors also described the models for the Wind Temple in a pretty detailed way (see my post above) in the BT. The Wind Temple also would fit well from a list building point of view (ranged cavalry, fast moving mage, artillery). And the temples would be an easy way to enlarge the army step by step a la Stormcast chambers. Therefore, I thought the whole Tyrionic side might be way off in the future.

But, looking at the Warden and Dawnrider models (I guess the Sentinels will have more of that too), it looks like GW already has a good idea for at least some of the models on the Tyrionic-side (maybe already have the sculpts), which always seems to be the first step for GW when they build a new army. If they already have done that, I think it's more likely we see that side as the next expansion (which still will be away at least over a year, if not 2 to 3 as Athrawes said) for them. It's just speculation of course. I really like that we now have four different hints of the dragon-like beings (in the picture of the city, the Dawnrider banner, the face on the breastplates, and the symbol on the breastplate of the high Warden). Because a lot of people are waiting for dragons. If they'd be part of the next expansion for the Lumineth, I think that'd be awesome for the line. 

[Prince Tûrion Rilyalöce]

4 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Not hearing anything, sorry, I didn't want to raise expectations too much. I agree with Athrawes above. Whatever we get as an extension of the line, it's not coming within a year or so. So let me expand a bit to make it more clear what I wanted to say above: 

I initially thought our next expansions will focus on the Teclian Temples, because there is a big focus on them in the BT, lore-wise they are already part of the army we are seeing right now (Teclian Vanguard), and the authors also described the models for the Wind Temple in a pretty detailed way (see my post above) in the BT. The Wind Temple also would fit well from a list building point of view (ranged cavalry, fast moving mage, artillery). And the temples would be an easy way to enlarge the army step by step a la Stormcast chambers. Therefore, I thought the whole Tyrionic side might be way off in the future.

But, looking at the Warden and Dawnrider models (I guess the Sentinels will have more of that too), it looks like GW already has a good idea for at least some of the models on the Tyrionic-side (maybe already have the sculpts), which always seems to be the first step for GW when they build a new army. If they already have done that, I think it's more likely we see that side as the next expansion (which still will be away at least over a year, if not 2 to 3 as Athrawes said) for them. It's just speculation of course. I really like that we now have four different hints of the dragon-like beings (in the picture of the city, the Dawnrider banner, the face on the breastplates, and the symbol on the breastplate of the high Warden). Because a lot of people are waiting for dragons. If they'd be part of the next expansion for the Lumineth, I think that'd be awesome for the line. 

Oh I see. That is clever observation.

Are the temples only Teclian? I thought they were apart from the political or cultural structure almost religious.

Like a nation is either Teclian or Tyrionic but all the temples would exist in all the nations kind of like aspect warriors.

 

[LuminethMage]

48 minutes ago, Prince Tûrion Rilyalöce said:

Oh I see. That is clever observation.

Are the temples only Teclian? I thought they were apart from the political or cultural structure almost religious.

Like a nation is either Teclian or Tyrionic but all the temples would exist in all the nations kind of like aspect warriors.

 

Yes, the Temples are neutral. All of the nations seem to have them. A storyline in the BT about a Water Temple fighting an Orruk horde is based in the Tyrionic nation of Aurathrai (or Oultrai).  

But, Teclis basically invented the idea and concept behind them, chose all the founders (which were all mages), and even now they are all led by mages (as far as we know), so I think thematically they are more on the Teclian-side. And they are all included in the Teclian Vanguard - which is basically what you are playing right now from a fluff perspective (not exclusively of course, but it's the center of the story in the BT)

It wouldn't be a problem at all if they would release a Temple within a basically Tyrionic release fluff-wise. But then, Tyrion has chariots, likely the dragons I mentioned, knights, lords & ladies, scouts, artillery and similar things, which a lot of people are looking forward to. On the Teclian-side, we really only have further Scinari options and the Temples. Everything else they mention in the book on the Teclian side isn't directly concerned with war (scribes, artists etc.). Except maybe a magical lance of light which could be an artillery piece similar to the Luminark (hence I don't think we'll see it). So I think if they want to expand the Teclian side, they likely go with Temples, if they go for the Tyrionic side, maybe we see something different. 

[Prince Tûrion Rilyalöce]

2 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

Yes, the Temples are neutral. All of the nations seem to have them. A storyline in the BT about a Water Temple fighting an Orruk horde is based in the Tyrionic nation of Aurathrai (or Oultrai).  

But, Teclis basically invented the idea and concept behind them, chose all the founders (which were all mages), and even now they are all led by mages (as far as we know), so I think thematically they are more on the Teclian-side. And they are all included in the Teclian Vanguard - which is basically what you are playing right now from a fluff perspective (not exclusively of course, but it's the center of the story in the BT)

It wouldn't be a problem at all if they would release a Temple within a basically Tyrionic release fluff-wise. But then, Tyrion has chariots, likely the dragons I mentioned, knights, lords & ladies, scouts, artillery and similar things, which a lot of people are looking forward to. On the Teclian-side, we really only have further Scinari options and the Temples. Everything else they mention in the book on the Teclian side isn't directly concerned with war (scribes, artists etc.). Except maybe a magical lance of light which could be an artillery piece similar to the Luminark (hence I don't think we'll see it). So I think if they want to expand the Teclian side, they likely go with Temples, if they go for the Tyrionic side, maybe we see something different. 

That’s pretty sound reasoning, thanks for the explanation!