Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[John Edwards]

Just now, Falkman said:

Many of the command abilities in the game are not used by heroes, they simply require a hero to be on the field/close to the unit using them. The three in the core book are not used by heroes for example, but by the units themselves. the Iliatha ability is no different.

Fair point.

[LuminethMage]

Having gone more thoroughly through the book, it’s pretty awesome how much detail there is in the artwork. 

I didn’t notice some of those at first. For example, right on the first page you have artwork of a Tyrionic and a Teclian city, with the both the symbols of the Sun Spirit and of Celennar. The statues on the page edges in the fluff part of the book, also show one Teclian (with Celennar’s symbol at the bottom of the staff and Teclis symbol right below the half-moon), and one Tyrionic, again with the symbol of the Sun Spirit on the bottom of the staff and Tyrion’s symbol (former symbol of Asuryan) with sun beams on top. 

The tail and beams of the Sun Spirit symbol look very similar to the tail and sun beams on dragon-phoenix which is shown on the Dawnrider banner. And we have dragon like beings in the Tyrionic city piece. Some of us might remember when we are all speculating about this part several month ago. 

But we might really see something like that in the future, now that we know that Tyrion has met with a very powerful spirit of light during his journey in the past. 

Anyway, I just love those little details they’ve put in there. 

[John Edwards]

29 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Having gone more thoroughly through the book, it’s pretty awesome how much detail there is in the artwork. 

I agree, it's pretty neat. I just noticed that all of the lake/river systems on the Ymetrica map (page 16) are shaped like aelven runes.

[Acid_Nine]

finally read a good majority of the book, and I gotta say this is some of the best AoS fluff I have read in a while (from a short pool of Kharadrons, Legions of Nagash, Deepkin and Cities of Sigmar) and makes me wish we had more models. Some particular notes I liked:

 

Spoiler

The Quest Tyrion went on through Hysh when he first woke up, trying to find his brother. I expected that they were together from the start like the core book and other sources said, but hearing about the journey Teclis went on, searching the realm first before going past the edge into what amounts to the sun of the entire Mortal realms and going blind for his brother felt like a proper Greek or Norse Myth. Also, goes to show how much he loved his brother despite the Just as Planned Bullcrap he did in the end times. Does raise some questions, like what exactly is Hysh's realm edge. Is it a different form of God or Godbeast? Because something so powerful that can blind the literal God of Light is pretty fascinating...

Not to get political, but the Spirefall event happening because of what amounts to ancient Fantasy Elven Cancel Culture was fairly surprising. kinda shows what happens when there is a chance to bring your opponent down on a single accusation, unfounded or not... granted, it's taken to extremes with literal magical nukes, but I liked it well enough as a story. I may just be reading too much into it too.

I am a bit confused by the Temple stuff. So, instead of climbing the Teclian Ladder towards enlightenment, the potential Acolyte will instead meditate using the given elements as a basis, which helps bind them to the natural spirits of Hysh such as Zenith, wind, mountain and River until they become so humble in their search they put themselves in the element's hands and pray they are spared? What does Zenith's end trial look like? is it Extreme sun burn? And if there is a spirit in the sky, what is the Separation between them and Tyrion's power? is there overlap? how is the aspect of Light and the aspect of Zenith different?

The barest hints of the other Temples makes me wanna have more... And the idea of Loreseekers had me pretty giddy at the thought. My prediction: We will get more Cinari in the form of these Loreseekers, or a new type of Elf leader within the same class, like a Grand Warden or something. Heck, this would make slotting in new models fairly easy too. Just Remove the limit of relics that only go to the Cathaller in that entry, maybe add a few more, and suddenly we have a new hero within a pre-established class that can work. Heck, it would make sense as to why the Blade of Leaping Gold is a thing in that category when we only have a woman dressed in a night gown. Maybe the General's handbook will have something like this for match play this year. if we can create new heroes then I'd be all over that. Restorator Ziatrec is a possibility for me now.

I think we could see more models from the Aralith or the Vanari IF there is an update soon. It would make it so we don't need another battle tome in order to play with new models if these guys can slot neatly into either keyword, which allows them to be used without needing a book to tie into new faction rules. We could see an expansion like the Wrath of the everchosen in the future which gives us these new faction rules, but I do not know how it would work. I will say I absolutely HATE how Ymetrica is so ingrained in the mountain temple. I wish there where separate faction rules for these temples outside of or instead of the nations. They are supposed to be absolutely everywhere, so needing 1 nation wholly devoted rules wise to 1 temple is frustrating to me. What happens when the other three show up? Will the 3 tyrionic nations be forced to only focus on those? What if I want a Ziatrec zenith temple? or a Syar River temple? 

 

speaking of Ziatrec, I am both happy and sad. I am happy with the fluff of their nation being so focused on the moons of Hysh, to the point the Bad moon is their biggest enemy, and they made mention of Morrslieb from the malign portents storyline, which made me very happy. That, and the flavor of them worshiping Celennarr more than Teclis and Tyrion being amused by it gave them some fun nuance as well. I just hope my temple to Teclis isn't going against any fluff they may have.

Okay, enough of my rambling. Anyone else hoping the create your own hero thing will allow us more hero choices in matched play? and also, sucks to hear about the Relm relics, but they were almost too powerful... I mean giving a Vampire lord on Zombie dragon ethereal was always a bullcrap play.

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

Anyone else hoping the create your own hero thing will allow us more hero choices in matched play?

I don't think it's going to be match play legal.

[Icarion]

Work continues on my Wind Spirit.

As some of you might remember if you saw my earlier posts, the initial plan (before more information had be made available) was to use the rules for a generic Alarith spirit of the Mountain with a thermal rider cloak artifact to represent this flying wind spirit in game.

As we now know, the generic Alarith is a behemoth, but not a hero. However, when a door closes a window opens, and the Lumineth being able to ally with the Idoneth (another of my armies) has given us some unique warscrolls to represent conversions.

I must admit that I am still unsure which warscroll would best represent this spirit. I'm torn between the Akhelian King and Eidolons. With that in mind, I have gone about creating two distinct bases to more closely match the scale of the either. I favor the scale of the Akhelian King more, however, I much prefer the access to magic that the Sea Eidolon warscoll allows me to represent this model in game turn. At the least, having these two separate bases will allow me to switch out between games and as the mood strikes me:

 

While the size comparisons aren't perfect unfortunately, I think they will be suitable. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

I have not yet received my battletome and box sets just yet, but reading the lore online has been fascinating.

In particular, the mentions of laughing, fox-faced wind spirits and of Wind Aelementari mages riding clouds in battle, all things considered I think these conversion have hit the nail on the head, and I'm very pleased with how this slots right into the lore.

[Aelfric]

7 hours ago, Jaskier said:

The other thing is that selling us a battletome that would be rendered obsolete in less than six months without prior notification would not go over well at all. I think we're just going to have to accept that this is it for now, but they clearly have concepts or perhaps even renders in the pipeline for when they do revisit the range in a few years time. I can absolutely see Lumineth becoming one of the better supported factions in Age of Sigmar, it's just a matter of waiting for those additions to come and working with what we have now. 

As an aside, I don't think Teclis needs a third spell lore to justify his 660 point cost. He's an incredibly strong support piece and near-unparalleled magical toolbox already just with access to two spell lores!

I've come to think of it in the same way as Stormcast.  Every couple of years Sigmar opens a new Chamber and we get an expansion.  Teclis will do likewise with his Temples as the need (in the storyline) arises.  I expect Zenith to be the last to be opened.

[John Edwards]

@Athrawes looks awesome! I think I prefer the smaller base.

[Aloth_Corfiser]

Reading all this Lore makes me excited and indecisive about starting the Army.  The Wind Spirit Sounds like something I would absolutely love and omg Horse Archers --> yes please! ^^ However not having much choice in generic nameless Heroes makes me almost want so say no to the Army. .....Almost
After seeing the Nations I decided that I wanted to avoid Ymetrica and the Alarith, (I am not into the Cow and Horn Motifs but also do not hate it with a passion)  but I also like to use unnamed Heroes, well that basically leaves the Cathallar .. 😄 But the Vanari Units are the most beautiful Battleline in the whole Game!
I might dabble in Hyshian Terrain instead and wait for more releases like the naive (High)-Elf Fan I am.  Or start a small Vanari - Auralan Battalion? Strange times to wargame .....

[Tiger]

GHB 2020 update, seems hero is narrative play only, but I'm honestly glad about it. Various builds for my CoS and LRL, pretty good, if my local group will want to play.

[Gecktron]

Im not sure if this is the right place, but the battletome lore made me think a bit more about the different great nations, how they are run, how their culture differs from each other, and how the same unit type can look different in each nation. 

Im currently mostly thinking about Ymetrica. 
In my mind, Ymetrica is a theocracy ruled over by either high-ranking members of the Alarith temple, or philosophers that have climbed the teclian ladder by meditating on top of the highest peaks. 

We know from the battletome that Ymetricans favor triangle patterns and symbols. I tried to incorporate that while trying to come up with a coat of arms/symbol for the nation:

The helmet at the top is based on the Stoneguard helmet, but It could also represent the warform of an Alarith Mountain Spirit, or the Ymetrican Longhorn itself. 

Im currently planning on going all in with Ymetrica and Im thinking about slightly converting most models to incorporate more mountain symbolic. 

[Yuviel Lightbringer]

As a fellow Ymetrican I am going to most shamelessly copy your wonderful flag @Gecktron, Ymetrica thanks you for your service to the nation.

May your shield be as stong as Yvresse's walls.

[Maturin]

12 hours ago, Jaskier said:

There's a still floating around from the "This Week in Warhammer" video accompanying the GHB announcement that shows two prominent changes for matched play; 

a) When you select a battleplan, you have to roll to see which realm it takes place in (this may have already been a matched play standard, but I know in the Australian scene at least it wasn't really enforced before.)

b) A direct quote from the video; "If you decide that your army is from a specific Mortal Realm and wish to make one of your artefacts of power a realm artefact, you must pick the realm artefact for your chosen Mortal Realm from the following pages, instead of using an artefact from Malign Sorcery." It shows the Realm of Aqshy as an example which features only a single artefact. 

Basically, it looks like we're losing out on access to the 96 artefact choices from Malign Sorcery and replacing them with 8 from the Generals' Handbook in matched play games. This would mean no more Ethereal Amulet/Aetherquartz Broach/Gryph-Feather Charm/Ghyrstrike/etc unless they make it in as the realm artefact for their respective realm in the GHB. Just as an example in terms of list construction for the armies I own, it affects my Hedonites of Slaanesh (especially if I play Syll'Esskan Host), Daughters of Khaine, Legions of Death and to a lesser extent my Sylvaneth, but won't affect my Tzeentch or Lumineth Realm-Lords. Newer battletomes tend not to rely on the realm artefacts as much, so I can't see this being too big an issue for prospective Lumineth players like us (I haven't come up with a single list idea for them that involved any realm artefacts!)

I just saw the video and the two pages of the GHB 2020. It doesn't say we're forced, it's just IF we want our army to be specifically from a realm. So, we should be good, no ?

[Maturin]

2 hours ago, Aloth_Corfiser said:

Reading all this Lore makes me excited and indecisive about starting the Army.  The Wind Spirit Sounds like something I would absolutely love and omg Horse Archers --> yes please! ^^ However not having much choice in generic nameless Heroes makes me almost want so say no to the Army. .....Almost
After seeing the Nations I decided that I wanted to avoid Ymetrica and the Alarith, (I am not into the Cow and Horn Motifs but also do not hate it with a passion)  but I also like to use unnamed Heroes, well that basically leaves the Cathallar .. 😄 But the Vanari Units are the most beautiful Battleline in the whole Game!
I might dabble in Hyshian Terrain instead and wait for more releases like the naive (High)-Elf Fan I am.  Or start a small Vanari - Auralan Battalion? Strange times to wargame .....

I do not like the cow symbolism either, although the Cow behemoths are really well done miniatures. What I hate the most are the helmets of the cow warriors.
But I did order a box, to my great shame.
Because as you said, those battlelines are just WOW. I wish HE had such beautiful lancers.

[fenriswolf2003]

The realm-lords novel did already release right?

[ArchaicArc]

34 minutes ago, fenriswolf2003 said:

The realm-lords novel did already release right?

I don’t think so? I remember the preview ages ago, but I’ve heard nothing since.

[LuminethMage]

The novel will likely release when you actually can buy the Alarith models, as Stoneguard is at the center of the novel. It's not out yet. 

It's pretty funny that on the lore appropriate allies list in the new GHB, it's hard to ally with the Idoneth, but they are the only allies in our Battletome. I understand the mechanical difference, but it's still kind of funny. I'd would have been great if they had at least touched upon this in the Battletome (is there now Idoneth enclave in Hysh which thinks more positively of Teclis and the Lumineth?). But generally speaking, I'm looking really forward to those new option for multiplayer. 

[Gecktron]

4 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

I'd would have been great if they had at least touched upon this in the Battletome (is there now Idoneth enclave in Hysh which thinks more positively of Teclis and the Lumineth?)

The very first Idoneth City (and original home of the Ionrach Enclave) Gealrachi is located in the Gealus Ocean in Hysh. The Ymetrica map even shows two whirlways. So I think its safe to assume there are still multiple Idoneth settlements in the Realm of Light. 

[LuminethMage]

Yup, there are, but that wouldn't automatically mean they are on good terms with the Lumineth, right? Would just have been nice to explain a bit why they had this kind of alliance (although the reason is likely for gameplay). 

[Jaskier]

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

I just saw the video and the two pages of the GHB 2020. It doesn't say we're forced, it's just IF we want our army to be specifically from a realm. So, we should be good, no ?

No, it's the same as it is now. To select a realm artefact from Malign Sorcery in the current rules, you have to choose a realm for your army; i.e. if you want a Ghyran realm artefact like Ghyrstrike, your army has to hail from Ghyran. The change in the GHB is you have to pick the realm artefacts in the GHB instead of the Malign Sorcery ones (which is clearly a balance change to rein in some of the silly combos certain army books wouldn't otherwise have access to; this will make it easier to balance/price models like the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon when it won't have access to the Ethereal Amulet, as it's clearly worth its points cost with the amulet but not without it.) 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Jaskier

[Evantas]

(edit: Ok, just noticed others have the same complaint)

 

Saw the GHB 2020 updates on Coalition of Death. 

Idnoeth Deepkin are listed as 'desperate Coalition' for Lumineth. So is the Allies line for Lumineth wrong, and they should mean Lumineth allies are SCE + Sylvaneth + Daughters of Khaine, or they are totally ignoring the fluff for some obscure balance reasons?

Edited June 30, 2020 by Evantas

[zilberfrid]

3 hours ago, Jaskier said:

No, it's the same as it is now. To select a realm artefact from Malign Sorcery in the current rules, you have to choose a realm for your army; i.e. if you want a Ghyran realm artefact like Ghyrstrike, your army has to hail from Ghyran. The change in the GHB is you have to pick the realm artefacts in the GHB instead of the Malign Sorcery ones (which is clearly a balance change to rein in some of the silly combos certain army books wouldn't otherwise have access to; this will make it easier to balance/price models like the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon when it won't have access to the Ethereal Amulet, as it's clearly worth its points cost with the amulet but not without it.) 

I think it's bad form to put out a mortal wound spam army at the same time you take away Ignax's scales.

[Maturin]

3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

I think it's bad form to put out a mortal wound spam army at the same time you take away Ignax's scales.

Yes it's silly. Some outdated armies will really suffer! My SCE won't leave the shelves if I can't use Ignax scales!

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Yes it's silly. Some outdated armies will really suffer! My SCE won't leave the shelves if I can't use Ignax scales!

Realm artifacts were a balancing factor between good and overtuned factions. Taking them away increases unbalance. Not that Cities had much choice in realms, but at least they could take scales in most of them.

[Icarion]

They were a night mare to balance for, and most were bad or redundant, or on the flip side simply way better than comparable artifacts in certain battletomes.

Older books may struggle for a little while without certain egregious ones, but the health of the game going forward will be much better without the bloat they added.