Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Chumphammer]

Just now, Nizrah said:

Lol nope, just bring Teclis, Etharion or whatever this ghost armor is called, 20 wardens and rest in archers. You will point click everything and absolutly dominate without even trying x D.

....hardly

Teclis is pretty easy to take down, and if you have him and eltharian thats 880pts and nearly half our army.  Yeah you might kill some stuff but you are losing on objectives as you dont have the bodies. A fast army will be into you turn 2 and you are done and the more stuff you add not in battalions, the more drops you have increasing people chances of taking you out before you can get your defenses up

[Ching Wing]

How are you guys finding the rules and points for everything

[Gecktron]

4 minutes ago, Ching Wing said:

How are you guys finding the rules and points for everything

There are the german rules on page 104 (or so) of this thread. Some people have translated most of them on the following pages. The rules for the Wardens, Dawnriders and Eltharion are also official out now and can be found on the Games Workshop webstore. 

[Nizrah]

36 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

....hardly

Teclis is pretty easy to take down, and if you have him and eltharian thats 880pts and nearly half our army.  Yeah you might kill some stuff but you are losing on objectives as you dont have the bodies. A fast army will be into you turn 2 and you are done and the more stuff you add not in battalions, the more drops you have increasing people chances of taking you out before you can get your defenses up

There is battalion for this so its 2 drops i think. So you can have first turn for 5+ for entire army. Plus you dont have bodies? You have 80 models LOL

[Gecktron]

9 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

There is battalion for this so its 2 drops i think. So you can have first turn for 5+ for entire army. Plus you dont have bodies? You have 80 models LOL

The Auralan Legion battalion is 1 chalice mage plus 2-4 units of sentinels, and an equal amount of warden. So, 2 units of wardens mean you can take 40 Sentinels (as they come in units of 20) tops. And you can only use out-of-LoS fire against 2 units (as the sentinel champion can only mark 1 unit per turn). 

And then you are stuck in your deployment zone. You cant use the wardens to attack, cant risk Teclis in close combat, and you cant risk to bring the sentinels to the front line. You lose the game via objectives. 

EDIT: Sorry, I realized you didnt post the Battalion list. My point still stands. Sentinel spam may sound good but loses the objective game.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Gecktron

[Chumphammer]

49 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

The Auralan Legion battalion is 1 chalice mage plus 2-4 units of sentinels, and an equal amount of warden. So, 2 units of wardens mean you can take 40 Sentinels (as they come in units of 20) tops. And you can only use out-of-LoS fire against 2 units (as the sentinel champion can only mark 1 unit per turn). 

And then you are stuck in your deployment zone. You cant use the wardens to attack, cant risk Teclis in close combat, and you cant risk to bring the sentinels to the front line. You lose the game via objectives. 

EDIT: Sorry, I realized you didnt post the Battalion list. My point still stands. Sentinel spam may sound good but loses the objective game.

Exactly 

The buff isn't map wide. We are not pentfrix elite with a 1+as map wide that heals.

 

Teclis has no way to heal unless you take lifeswarm, and thats 40 more pets. 

Teclis buff, which can be dispelled unless its the 1 spell you cast, is wholly within 18, so means you Have to push teclis with the army to keep that buff 

Other armies can get a 2 drop list. He'll KO can get a 1 drop

How do you defend teclis vs armies that appear anywhere within 9? Or board edges? Or A fec list that flies over your 2 screen units? Or mass shooting from Stormfiends? Yet still take objectives / protect teclis

My dok army will be on a teclis one turn 1 if not turn 2, has 5+ fnp to his mortal wounds, and 2 bloodstained which bypass the wardens -1 to his and their armour/ethereal 

So again, LrL are not a point and click list. Bonereapers are with pentifix, as with they have an army wide 3+, insane shooting with catapults, mass bodies they just regen back  immune to battle shock. They sit there or lumber forwards till they grind you out. (And I'm not saying they are broken, I do fine vs OBR) they are just dull to play and new people can easily pick them up and play them 

[whispersofblood]

2 hours ago, Gecktron said:

The Auralan Legion battalion is 1 chalice mage plus 2-4 units of sentinels, and an equal amount of warden. So, 2 units of wardens mean you can take 40 Sentinels (as they come in units of 20) tops. And you can only use out-of-LoS fire against 2 units (as the sentinel champion can only mark 1 unit per turn). 

And then you are stuck in your deployment zone. You cant use the wardens to attack, cant risk Teclis in close combat, and you cant risk to bring the sentinels to the front line. You lose the game via objectives. 

EDIT: Sorry, I realized you didnt post the Battalion list. My point still stands. Sentinel spam may sound good but loses the objective game.

Why do you think that? MSU might be one of our strongest strategies. 40 sentinels and 40-50 Wardens.

[Gecktron]

13 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Why do you think that? MSU might be one of our strongest strategies. 40 sentinels and 40-50 Wardens.

Oh sure, MSU may very well work in our favor (to a certain degree, I think there is a drop off, at a certain point because of Spell Lore and Aetherquarz limitations) I was mainly talking about the short comings of 1 or 2 drop lists. 

In regards to why I think Sentinel Spam will fail is simply the fact that we need something to claim objectives. 5+ save Sentinels will melt and Warden lose all their good stuff if they charge. I think we need Stoneguard/Aralith units and Dawnriders to have a chance at winning the objective game. Just sitting in our deployment zone wont work. 

[Sleepers]

MSU at least with wardens doesn’t seem worth it.. they lose their shining company too quickly if they are just a 10 man unit.. everything else certainly can be done MSU but you’re then stretching your auras and buffs really thin and probably won’t get them on everyone, and the stacking buffs really seem critical to me to make this army work well.

[Acid_Nine]

10 minutes ago, Sleepers said:

MSU at least with wardens doesn’t seem worth it.. they lose their shining company too quickly if they are just a 10 man unit.. everything else certainly can be done MSU but you’re then stretching your auras and buffs really thin and probably won’t get them on everyone, and the stacking buffs really seem critical to me to make this army work well.

I think it depends. If you're using the wardens to just make sentinels or dawnriders battle line, then I think they could be useful in MSU, mostly as speed bumps to keep them from getting to the big guys.

 

I don't know if sentinel spam is a good idea, but I think people forgot that they could move and shoot stull, which at least means they can get around to objectives, especially if they cast speed of Hysh on themselves. Also, I think Teclis may want to go 2nd in a match up? we have time to get our buffs off, including the Heavenly blessing. put it on teclis to make that 4+ save a 4++ save, give the protection spell to him, and use the rest as you see fit. We do not have too many blasting spells, so we're not missing out on too many chances to blast people.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Acid_Nine

[Chumphammer]

33 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

We do not have too many blasting spells, so we're not missing out on too many chances to blast people.

Unless you go spell portal and Teclis damage spell. that can hurt but I dont know I if i wanna be "that guys" lol

Do we know all the battalions yet (ie what they require and what they do)

Zaitec
Eltharion: 220
Scinari Cathallar: 140
30 Wardens: 360
20 Wardens: 240
10 Sentinels: 140
10 Sentinels: 140
5 Dawn Riders: 130
5 Dawn Riders: 130
10 Dawn Riders: 260
Lance: 120
legion: 120 

other list I am rethinking, as if I am going to have 3 drops then I want some speed in there. Plus we have a spell that can slow units. So maybe:

Zaitrec
Teclis: 660
Scinari Cathallar: 140
20 Wardens: 240
20 Wardens: 240
10 Dawnriders: 260
10 Sentinels: 140
10 Sentinels: 140
Auralan Legion: 120

leaves 60pts for an endless spell


And finally my in your face idea:

Gortek: 520
Eltharion: 220
Scinari Cathallar: 140
10 Sentinals: 140
10 Sentinals: 140
20 Wardens: 240
10 Wardens: 120 
10 Dawn Riders: 260
legion: 120
Command point: 50
Emerald life swarm: 40

Edited June 22, 2020 by Chumphammer

[Gecktron]

1 minute ago, Chumphammer said:

Unless you go spell portal and Teclis damage spell. that can hurt but I dont know I if i wanna be "that guys" lol

Do we know all the battalions yet (ie what they require and what they do)

Toying with a fast strike list using Eels as Teclis shields lol

Teclis: 660
3 x 10 Sentinals: 420
10 Dawn Riders: 260
10 Dawn Riders: 260
3 Ishlaen Guard: 140
3 Ishlaen Guard: 140
120pts spare
 

Yeah, we already know all the battalions. The Lumineth have 4: Alarith Temple (Battle cattle, Stonemage, Stoneguard), Auralan Legion (Cathallar, 2-4 Sentinals and Wardens), Dawnrider Lance (2-3 Dawnriders) and the mega battalion with the other three, Teclis and Eltharion. 

I dont think the Eel list is legal as it lacks any Battleline units. 

[Sleepers]

22 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

I think it depends. If you're using the wardens to just make sentinels or dawnriders battle line, then I think they could be useful in MSU, mostly as speed bumps to keep them from getting to the big guys.

 

I don't know if sentinel spam is a good idea, but I think people forgot that they could move and shoot stull, which at least means they can get around to objectives, especially if they cast speed of Hysh on themselves. Also, I think Teclis may want to go 2nd in a match up? we have time to get our buffs off, including the Heavenly blessing. put it on teclis to make that 4+ save a 4++ save, give the protection spell to him, and use the rest as you see fit. We do not have too many blasting spells, so we're not missing out on too many chances to blast people.

Going second seems like a huge risk to me.. even if they don’t kill Teclis they will gimp his auras so badly that he won’t be buffing anyone anymore. If you’re going against something that has no way to hit Teclis turn 1 then absolutely I agree. I just worry he’ll die turn 1 haha

[Falkman]

16 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

Unless you go spell portal and Teclis damage spell. that can hurt but I dont know I if i wanna be "that guys" lol

Do we know all the battalions yet (ie what they require and what they do)

Toying with a fast strike list using Eels as Teclis shields lol

Teclis: 660
3 x 10 Sentinals: 420
10 Dawn Riders: 260
10 Dawn Riders: 260
3 Ishlaen Guard: 140
3 Ishlaen Guard: 140
120pts spare

other list I am rethinking, as if I am going to have 3 drops then I want some speed in there. Plus we have a spell that can slow units. So maybe:

Zaitrec
Teclis: 660
Scinari Cathallar: 140
20 Wardens: 240
20 Wardens: 240
10 Dawnriders: 260
10 Sentinels: 140
10 Sentinels: 140
Auralan Legion: 120

leaves 60pts for an endless spell


And finally my in your face idea:

Gortek: 520
Eltharion: 220
3 x 10 Sentinals: 420
30 Wardens: 240 
10 Dawn Riders: 260
10 Dawn Riders: 260
80pts for something 

Both the first and the last of those lists are illegal since they are lacking in battleline. Remember only Wardens are battleline baseline, and then for each Warden unit you take another unit of Sentinels or Dawnriders will also count as battleline.

[Chumphammer]

Aww I thought sentinals and Wardens were core flat.

Ok, editted 

[LuminethMage]

@Chumphammer

The second one you posted will be likely the one how I start. Feels a bit like a proper army, with all the spell mayhem you could wish for. And then go form there to fine tune it. 

Quote

Zaitrec
Teclis: 660
Scinari Cathallar: 140
20 Wardens: 240
20 Wardens: 240
10 Dawnriders: 260
10 Sentinels: 140
10 Sentinels: 140
Auralan Legion: 120

leaves 60pts for an endless spell

Unquote

The third one feels like a lot of fun against people who'd expect something like the second one. 

Edit: And because you asked - they confirmed on Facebook that the Warscroll cards come later with the rest of the release. They are not in the box. I think the guy who made the video messed up, because they do these other cards for the first time afaik. If you watched the preview video a few months ago, you could see them also being somewhat confused about this when they talked about the box. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by LuminethMage

[Arentius]

Another question!

if I buff one of my units with Sanctuary increasing their save by 1, then make them ethereal, do they lose the extra save or is it kept because it was applied prior to them being ethereal?

 

is this a case of “order matters” or “no you can’t do that”

[Falkman]

2 minutes ago, Arentius said:

Another question!

if I buff one of my units with Sanctuary increasing their save by 1, then make them ethereal, do they lose the extra save or is it kept because it was applied prior to them being ethereal?

 

is this a case of “order matters” or “no you can’t do that”

You lose the extra save. It doesn’t matter what order you apply them in because Ethereal still states that you ignore all modifiers. So it’s not that the spell is on them or not that matters, they just always ignore the modifiers no matter how or when they are applied. Same as if you walk into cover before becoming ethereal. You’re still Ethereal when you make the save, so you ignore the modifier.

[BadgersinMeadows]

Was able to get a LRL box, yes!!!!! So excited. Glad I didn't sell off my AoS core book when I was thinking about that, haha. Working on IoB models to flesh out the LRL list. 

[TeclisGod]

After some brainstorming I came up with this list. Its a control/MW late game list. It has 3 drops which will help with turn choosing situations on match ups.

2000

Grand Nation - Syar

660   Teclis

260   Dawnriders 10

Battalion - Auralan-Legion 120

140   Scinari Cathalar

240   Wardens 20

120   Wardens 10

280   Sentinels 20

140   Sentinels 10

Endless Spell - Soulsnare Shackles

 

What do you guys think? The Dawnriders are kind of a weird unit in this list but I feel like since I am going so much control I would need a unit to retake an objective so I don't get pushed too hard in the beginning or they can be a late game objective grabber.

 

[Duke of Mousillon]

@TeclisGodi dont think the silverhelms are weird they are a necessity. Pretty sure that I would try to fit at least one unit of them into every list I do with the mobility advantage they give me compared to the 6'' acros the rest of my ranks.

[Tiger]

Are Dawnriders battleline? (Hard to keep track with conversation).

[Duke of Mousillon]

They can be. Not in general though. The rules are given that Wardens are battleline but in addition to every unit of wardens you have in your battleline you may take one unit of sentinels or dawnriders as battleline. So you can have max 1 unit of dawnriders as batteline since for the second youd need a second unit of wardens which would already complete your 3 unit battleline requirement.

[Tiberius501]

I’m actually a big fan of that myself, and would like to see it implemented in other factions (possibly a thing for 3rd ed coming through early?).

[Yoichir0]

I've read this discussion for a while now. Please correct me, if i'm missing something.

I don't know, why everbody is so dissapointed and why so many are complaining. 

Ok, to be honest, Teclis in first Turn is vulnerable, but I think he also can use aetherquartz for +1 save. And if you play against tzeentch the opponent will have to sacrifice the flamers, to get him. After that it can still be a close game.

If you go with a list 2 or 3drops and you get the first turn you can get teclis 4++ with chronomantic cogs and 5+ with gis own spell.

And the warden will have movement 12 with speed spell, so they will mostly be able to get one objective without losing shinning. And even if they don't. They're not useless even if they have to charge.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Yoichir0