Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[LuminethMage]

I"m super happy with what I have seen so far. I got my Magic focused Great Nation, Zaitrec, with exactly the lore and rules I'd like to see. The abilities etc., seem to be interesting. And it's totally ok if they aren't the Lumineth turn out to be not the strongest faction, or that Teclis is situational. For all the rest - so much to go through there, this will take a while. 

[hiaze]

u don't need to take warden to take dawnrider or sentinels if u take your battleline with cowboy'z (stoneguard ymetrica) right ?

[Tiberius501]

This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

[madmac]

1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

Yeah, they're an unusual army in a lot of ways. MW heavy, which is always annoying for opponents, but most of the units are soft hitters otherwise, with low base attacks, low rend, low damage, 4+ wound rolls pretty much across the board for battleline units.

The Cav is specialized to be extremely lethal charging against weak infantry and extremely meh against anything else. They can be tanky if they're able to stack up faction bonuses and hero synergies, but are pretty squishy if caught out of formation, and bravery is actually quite low without things like the Cathcaller backing them up. Lots of units are otherwise Bravery 5 after using Aetherquartz, that's not great.

In practice I think they will end up being a fairly tactical army, it doesn't look like any of the basic units are spam to win,  units are mostly slow except for your specialized Cav and the heroes are expensive. Granted, I haven't seen the warscroll for the Hammerers yet.

 

[Gecktron]

2 minutes ago, madmac said:

Granted, I haven't seen the warscroll for the Hammerers yet.

Hammerers only have a 4" move. They are even slower. 

I think the lack of speed will be what balances this army. So im not too worried about them being OP at the moment. 

 

[Tiberius501]

Wouldn’t you just spam Wardens? With the 5+ mortal wound spell, a unit of 20 for 240pts is dishing out 13 MW’s.

[Acid_Nine]

1 minute ago, Tiberius501 said:

This army seems to be heavily about mortal wounds which is a little disappointing and possibly not hugely fun to fight. Otherwise looks like an interesting army.

It seems to be heavily about 6+'s to hit, and I agree it may suck to fight against. they pretty much do a lot of tricks the gloomspite gitz have, which is a bit ironic considering that these guys are highborn warriors.

Anyways, been coming up with some lists now that we have more info. We don't know enough for spells on everyone, but I think this seems to be pretty good. 

 

Spoiler

List 1, try everything? Iliatha: 

Stone Mage-130- general
Cathallar-140

Battle Line:

Wardens x20: 240
Wardens x10: 120
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140

Other:
Dawnriders x5: 130
Dawnriders x5: 130

Spirit of the mountain: 340

Stoneguard x10: 200

Endless spells:
Rune of Petrification: 70
Twin Stones: 30

Total: 1950pts
--------

List 2, Eltharion in Iliatha

HQs: 
Eltharion: 220pts
Cathaller: 130pts
Avalorn: 360pts

Battleline:
Wardens x20: 240pts
Wardens x20: 240pts
Wardens x10: 120pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts
Sentinels x10: 140pts

Battalion: 
Auralan-Legion: 120pts

Endless spells: 
Twin Stones: 30pts
Geminids: 60pts

Total: 1940pts

_______________________

List 3 Iliatha with batallion: 

Stone Mage-130- general
Cathallar-140
Mountain Spirit: 340

Battle Line:

Wardens x20: 260
Wardens x20: 260
Sentinels x10: 140
Sentinels x10: 140

Dawnriders: 130pts
Dawnriders: 130pts

Stoneguard x10: 200pts

Battalion: Auralan-Legion- 120
Endless spell: twinstones

Total: 1980pts
 

 

[hiaze]

i think taake avalorn rather the generic cow is a must have, generic cow as not keyword hero(held in german)  for have the save RR on your sentinel u need a hero, stonemage really squishy

Edited June 19, 2020 by hiaze

[Sleepers]

The army is definitely a beta strike / defensive army. Set up on the right points properly and annoy the enemy with archers to force them to attack and then use the two activations at a time to get the edge in combat before slowly grinding forward to other points to win.

Im thinking some deep strike eels are a good way to add to that strategy.. that is if you can afford the points.. this definitely feels like an army where you want a lot of things but can’t have them all.

[madmac]

1 hour ago, Tiberius501 said:

Wouldn’t you just spam Wardens? With the 5+ mortal wound spell, a unit of 20 for 240pts is dishing out 13 MW’s.

If they actually engage them, sure, but the Wardens are also slow, not super-tough (4+ save, 1 wound, lowish bravery, ect) and reliant on staying still for bonuses. They can be very dangerous to engage, but they're not exactly Petrifex Mortek Guard with a 3+ re-rollable save, immune to battleshock and able to replace models, they can very much be killed.

At minimum I think the archers are pretty much necessary for force-projection and the Riders are really useful for their speed and hitting power, although they can only really perform vs infantry. I'm not sure about the hammer bros, I feel like there's an alternate build out there when going full mountain to use them as a somewhat more offensive replacement for Wardens, but in general they seem to fill a similar role.

 

[hiaze]

 

24 minutes ago, madmac said:

If they actually engage them, sure, but the Wardens are also slow, not super-tough (4+ save, 1 wound, lowish bravery, ect) and reliant on staying still for bonuses. They can be very dangerous to engage, but they're not exactly Petrifex Mortek Guard with a 3+ re-rollable save, immune to battleshock and able to replace models, they can very much be killed.

 

warden can't be compare to petrifex mortek to survivability but stoneguard can

4+ RR save (with right city) able to have immune battleshock for free CP with Command hability

able to negate rend-2 

and be 3+ RR save and -1 to hit with one endeless spell (lumineth have lot of wizard unit)

for 10pts/wonds

 

warden cost 12pts /wonds have save 4 -1to hit with shinnig company and it's all

Edited June 19, 2020 by hiaze

[Incineroar87]

If there's a way to make Stoneguard core, a full on Ymetica army will be really fun.

[Acid_Nine]

So i’ve Been almost obsessing about this all day (which feels great after no games due to quarantine) and this book is really pushing you towards MSU for the wardens, with each squad being a wizard and the two units striking at once, but with the limit of needing 5 models in a unit to cast spells, I kinda want to have 20 guys in a squad for protection and board control. Kinda hard to decide without playing.

[chosen_of_khaine]

Though it's not an army I would run, i definitely see Stoneguard spam in Ymetrica with the Alarith Temple battalion being the most competitive choice by far. They just get too many stacking bonuses.

Having played OBR for months (and I love the army) I don't see Lumineth being as obviously powerful, but their mortal wound output and the impact teclis has on the board is certainly unique

[hiaze]

after read all leak ,i think the big weakness of lumineth is the weakness to heroes sniping (regardless of artifact and command traits we have not discover) , heroes is really key in this armies (lot of bubble) and u can't cover them like u make with volturnos in idoneth for exemple.

however normaly u should have magic advantage ( not a lot of armies can have more sorcerer than lumineth armies) to take control batlle advantange

move of armies are average not bad at all but no great, but look how much move spell you have:

1/Speed of Hysh: Casts on 5 Double the movement of a friendly unit within 18" of the caster.

2/Paralyzing Dizziness: Casts on 6. Pick an an enemy unit within 18" of the caster. Until your next hero phase, roll 2d6 each time the unit tries to make a normal move, pile in, or charge (?) move. If the roll is higher than the unit's bravery, it cannot make that move.

3/Darkness of the Soul: Casts on 7. Pick 1 enemy within 18" and visible to the caster, roll 2d6 each time that unit attempts a normal move, charge, or pile-in. If the result is higher than that unit's Bravery, that unit can't complete that action.

4/-Gravitational Diversion: Casts on 5. Caster can fly until next hero phase. 1 enemy unit within 18" takes 1 MW, can't fly, and has halved movement until next hero phase. 

 

have minimal of drop and try to play 1st to cancel move to enemies with lot of wizzard seems the key to take control of game, and try to have resilience to keep the game in your hand with lot of support spell.

 i don't think warden is the anvil of this BT, they have 3 in range (can easy stay behind unit and hit) and they are more squishy than another entrance and don't forget u can't make cord with warden or you loose your"shinning compagny" for all game

 

it's how i first see this BT overall

 

[Jackroks981]

8 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Indeed. Both Kharadron and Tzeench (especially if he is on the same base as Alarielle) can and will take the first turn with 1-2 drops deployment and kill him on the first turn with us not being able to do anything about it. I will reserve judgement, but tournament-wise he is a very bad and fragile investment.

(And thank god because I really don't like the model.. 😛) 

I fail to see that happening. Both Tzeentch and KO are devastating at 18”. They deep strike 9” away. Unless you’ve done literally no screening whatsoever then it’s not happening, hell Tzeentch only get one teleport now. 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, hiaze said:

have minimal of drop and try to play 1st to cancel move to enemies with lot of wizzard seems the key to take control of game, and try to have resilience to keep the game in your hand with lot of support spell.

That‘s so much fun for your opponent especially if you use cheese-lord Teclis with his auto 10+ casts, +1/2 to unbinds for his army (+1 due to subfaction) and the honestly low point-price Tags the army has.

 

srsly what is going on? Since the OBR the rule-design for this game is getting worse. They added so many rules that utterly shatter the fun of the person who is playing against you. I honestly don‘t want to play against Lumineth, there‘s too much cheese going on. Controlling the enemies movement in a game that is about movement is bonkers.

If this is the way for AoS to be now then I am more than willing to leave AoS behind.

[hiaze]

 

8 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

Indeed. Both Kharadron and Tzeench (especially if he is on the same base as Alarielle) can and will take the first turn with 1-2 drops deployment and kill him on the first turn with us not being able to do anything about it. I will reserve judgement, but tournament-wise he is a very bad and fragile investment.

(And thank god because I really don't like the model.. 😛) 

u can make 2 drops with teclis too, just need to see if is viable 😃

 

1 drop

-teclis:660 pts

2 drop bataillon

-one cow 340pts

-stone mage 130

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X5 100pts

Edited June 19, 2020 by hiaze

[Grudgebearer]

I actually have to say that I’m pretty confident facing Lumineth as a KO player, being able to snipe all the characters out and delete Teclis easily turn 1 should be no problem at all even with screening, remember KO can move after they teleported with one of their ships if we take Barak Zilfin Skyport ☺️

[zilberfrid]

25 minutes ago, Grudgebearer said:

I actually have to say that I’m pretty confident facing Lumineth as a KO player, being able to snipe all the characters out and delete Teclis easily turn 1 should be no problem at all even with screening, remember KO can move after they teleported with one of their ships if we take Barak Zilfin Skyport ☺️

But you're not onedropping.

Thunderers in an Ironclad are in a batallion without heroes, and Arkanauts won't cut it.

If I read it correctly, the Lumineth player can have his own units be affected by a big endless spell and have half of the units within 18" deal d3 mw to the ironclad. In addition, of course, to mw firing archerfire that doesn't need line of sight, mw shooting from Eltharion and magic. All the while, your CP's are worth half.

[azmar]

teclis have 5+ ward spell + 5+ ward spell in lore lume, but i think this not enought to survive againstalpha strike armys. or ironjaws 30+ move in first turn all in our deploy on first turn.

[Tiberius501]

I don’t know why but I’m disappointed with the rules  

I think every unit doing mortals and spells, a bunch of these spells being debuffs, just seems so unenjoyable for my friends to play against. I don’t know if lazy is the right word to describe them, but just giving every unit mortal wounds feels kind of like a cop out. No other way to make a new army fun and powerful other than to just chuck on a MW’s ability? 

I dunno... love the models, really not liking the rules atm. 

[Siegfried VII]

1 hour ago, Jackroks981 said:

I fail to see that happening. Both Tzeentch and KO are devastating at 18”. They deep strike 9” away. Unless you’ve done literally no screening whatsoever then it’s not happening, hell Tzeentch only get one teleport now. 

The base of Alarielle is over 6 inches. Flamers shoot at 18 inches so 9 inches deep behind your deployed screen. So if you deploy with a 12 inchew deep deployment zone or even a 15 inches deployment zone (for the scenarios were you deploy 9 inches away from your opponent) you can't hide Teclis and he will be shot first dead in the first turn. Have also in mind that most of the powerful weapons of Kharadron have 24 inches range so it is even worse with them..

Your only chance is for the deployment zones of the scenario to be either diagonal or corridor wise in order to deploy him aay from first turn alphastrike. And I don't think I want to have chnaces for auto-lose games..

[Siegfried VII]

1 hour ago, hiaze said:

 

u can make 2 drops with teclis too, just need to see if is viable 😃

 

1 drop

-teclis:660 pts

2 drop bataillon

-one cow 340pts

-stone mage 130

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X15 300pts

-stoneguard X5 100pts

You are correct, but I don't see our 2 drop lists be viable in terms of unit choices.. We'll see of course as we practise with the army.. 🙂

[LuminethMage]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius501 said:

I don’t know why but I’m disappointed with the rules  

I think every unit doing mortals and spells, a bunch of these spells being debuffs, just seems so unenjoyable for my friends to play against. I don’t know if lazy is the right word to describe them, but just giving every unit mortal wounds feels kind of like a cop out. No other way to make a new army fun and powerful other than to just chuck on a MW’s ability? 

I dunno... love the models, really not liking the rules atm. 

I'd wait a bit, if you play with friends and don't have to optimize to the greatest extend, you can have all those Champion-Wizards do other spells instead of Power of Hysh. There won't be a total way around the MW, but it might not be that bad for your opponent.