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Gareth 🍄
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Got in another 3.0 game with my Sons today.  I’m far from a tournament regular but in general (play 2-3 a year normal times) I like to have played the army I’m going to play at least twice as many times pre-tournament as games which will be in tournament.  Preferably at least half of those with my list in close to it’s finished form.  Given this my first tournament of a new edition would like to be at it above that.

But with the tournament rushing up I might not even be equal to the five games for the tournament before I pack things up and head to the hotel…  Apologies in advance I guess to my opponents that I might not be giving you the best game.  Fortunately Sons at least plays fast…

I will go with the common sense of making my Footsloggas unified to try to claim priority.  But it’s too late to change the models in the list up so I can’t drop the Mancrushers.  I still like having them in my army, don’t get me wrong.  But the games I have played have highlighted how they set up my opponent for VPs.

With Predators & Prey my opponent should have a good shot at 5 VP if the game goes the distance.  Broken Ranks and Bring it Down! also seem almost givens as Battle Tactics against my list adding another 4-6 VPs to my opponent’s score card.  Now bonus VP for battle tactics swing our way too but I’m wracking my brain to either come up with ways (again besides dropping the Mancrushers as it’s too late for that) to offset this.

From those with more games in bank any thoughts?  Am I overthinking this?

 

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Yeah, I feel you. I've played three games with Sons and I feel like I can take them to a tournament and do okay.

I got a singles event 3/10 to practice for teams 30/10. Legitimately looking forward to it.

I had two games Saturday against Wanderers. Holy ****** does Blades do work. I had my Breaker with Amulet, Arcane Shield and AAD take 38 damage in a round from buffer Bloat Drones or whatever.

First game he killed a gargant and conceded bottom of two, having scored zero primary.

Second game I changed tactic, hold back back and not rush him. Lost the Breaker (the 38) and Kraken redeployed 6 to safety next turn.

I ended up losing two gargants all said, opponent conceded turn 3 having scored zero primary again.

He was an experienced player, but it was rough. Mortal wounds done in my turn were super rough.

...

And here's some work in progress shots. I'm commissioning a buddy of mine to paint my army. Viking inspired frost giants. Here's some WIP shots he sent me this morning.

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On 9/4/2021 at 9:42 PM, PlasticCraic said:

I wrote up some Sons lists with the new WD rules that I think are quite competitive, one for each Tribe if you're interested:

https://plasticcraic.blog/2021/09/03/sons-of-behemat-white-dwarf-update-part-two-the-lists/

I like these had similar ideas myself but my main question is do I buy and paint a 4th mega just for my 9 mancrushers to all sit on the shelf. Although triple artifact 4 mega on paper looks like it probably is the strongest build now. I especially like the stomper list very similar to what I was thinking. The bravery 10 bubble shores up some key weaknesses and the buffed hero healing is a bonus. 
 

 

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6 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

I like these had similar ideas myself but my main question is do I buy and paint a 4th mega just for my 9 mancrushers to all sit on the shelf. Although triple artifact 4 mega on paper looks like it probably is the strongest build now. I especially like the stomper list very similar to what I was thinking. The bravery 10 bubble shores up some key weaknesses and the buffed hero healing is a bonus. 
 

 

4 Megas is my preferred direction, but there are people doing well with 3 + 3 and even 2+ 6 (I'd avoid the latter personally).

Sounds like you already have 3 Megas in which case I would say you'll be fine with 3 of them and 3 babies.  I happen to like 4 Megas, but it's not essential.  3+3 is a good army too, and lets you use the models you already own.

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Why hello, super inactive thread. I wanna talk about relics in competive lists.

I have a tournament 3/10 and a team event 30/10. Lists for 3/10 due Friday.

I'm running Taker, with two Krakens and a Stomper. Double Magnificent for extra relics.

...

As for the Kraken general, I think taking either Extremely Intimidating or Monsterously Tough is the way to go.

-1 to hit in 3" is solid, can blunt a little damage and protect other giants. But an extra 5 wounds is just flat always good and the opponent can pile in outside of 3" with a huge base.

Warstomper has two choices. Either the Arcane Tome or Manticore Venom.

Shield and Flaming Sword are both great spells, but I don't see myself getting them off in most games.

Venom however, is going to be amazing on his club literally all the time. But it would leave me without the ability to unbind.

Gatebreaker gets the Amulet of Destiny. Done.

And the last Kraken has three options. Jaws of the Megalodon, Krakenskin Sandals or take the Arcane Tome for the Warstomper.

Sandals are really good on a mid output gianty. The extra attack, rend and flat damage is sweet.

I think Jaws might be okay, but kinda ****** in comparison.

And I see him making good use of the Tome, but really missing the Sandals.

Either way, I think I need a minimum of one dispel to take a shot at stopping Chains or stuff like Blades of Putrefaction. Blades is the difference between killing a giant a turn or not.

Thoughts?

I'm thinking..

Tough, Vial, Amulet, Sandals. No magic defense.

 

 

 

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Edited by Obeisance
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@Obeisance I'm taking that exact layout except I think I'm leaving one of my Megas naked.

Kraken-Eater General with Extremely Intimidating and Krakenskin Sandals
Gatebreaker with Amulet of Destiny
Warstomper
Kraken-Eater with... Net of the Beast-reaver

I know the Net isn't a very popular thing but here's my thoughts.

Having the Net holder go up against another monster means you have an 83% chance of debuffing the enemy with either Roar or Net which means they either can't benefit from commands OR they are -1 to hit and you are +1 to hit them.  It's a 33% chance both go off and only a 16% chance that neither go off.  With SoB, OMT, and other monsters becoming more prevalent, I think this could be some interesting tech.  I do like Mystic Tome and Manticore Vial though.  Mystic Tome can be hit or miss depending on the opponent and +1 to wound is never a bad thing at all, especially in this army.  

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I was wondering about that Net.  Trying to figure out how to model nets on my customized megas (which are Chaos mechanical constructs).  Also strongly leaning to making a 4th mega though if my 3 Mancrushers don't sell I'll just keep them and save hobby time.

I don't think the Arcane Tome is worth it for the off-chance of a single unbind.  Best chance of dealing with something like Blades of Putrifaction is to hurl boulders at the wizard with that spell, usually a puny wizard if I remember my Nurgle correctly.

However I just remembered a guy at a recent big 3K event using Stomper Tribe, Arcane Tome, cast the Soulscream Bridge successfully twice at the event, once he launched a Warstomper with a 3D6" charge into someone's face turn 1, and in a different game it was 3 Mancrushers. 

Game 4 Vs a high table Tzeentch army, 3 mancrushers in a different army wiped out 50 Pink Horrors (and their subsequent splitters) in two turns using Stomper Tribe.  Guess that tribe has its perks!  When it works, it WORKS.

Edited by Lord Krungharr
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Reason I want the Vial, is because I literally just played into a -1 to wound debuff and it was horrendous for my damage output. The Vial always seems good.. but a single unbind? Eh.

The Net seems really situational. Why not just roar and all out attack?

Gating Megas seems hilarious.

...

Also my buddy is doing amazing work. Can't wait to pick my dudes up!

 

 

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@Obeisance You can get Roared back and then no more AOA/AOD. Net gives you a good opportunity to change monster battles to be in your favor.

@Lord Krungharr That was me! I only got Bridge off once but I was able to fling my Warstomper 34” across the table including the 3D6 rerolling charge (Footsloggas).

I’m not gonna try it this weekend at a tournament, but I do wanna try Taker or Stomper again with a Mob. Use a Mega to screen your Mob and then countercharge.

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@PennydudeHello again!  Once on the bridge is better than none :)  Such a cool looking spell, and I think it could be useful for my Ogors too, probably my Bullgors as well.

After playing against those Horror blobs, the Stomper Mancrusher Mob is much more appealing to me.  I mean if an army has 1 of each Mega and the Mob anyways, it almost doesn't matter which Tribe is used, and we could get a 3 drop army too, or a free 6" run.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

@PennydudeHello again!  Once on the bridge is better than none :)  Such a cool looking spell, and I think it could be useful for my Ogors too, probably my Bullgors as well.

After playing against those Horror blobs, the Stomper Mancrusher Mob is much more appealing to me.  I mean if an army has 1 of each Mega and the Mob anyways, it almost doesn't matter which Tribe is used, and we could get a 3 drop army too, or a free 6" run.

Heyo!!  If you go 3 megas and a Mob, the best we can get is 2 drop (Bosses - Unified) and then Mob.  I was even thinking a Mob in Taker to help break stalemates in a mirror match since a Mob is 45 models on objectives and you only lose that fight once you've lost 2 Mancrushers.  Yes, they can go down easy but you use a Mega to "screen" for them and then let the Mob counterpunch, get the 3D3 damage on the charge in, Roar AND Titanic Duel them, and then go to town.

I really think that the Net of the Beast-reaver could come in handy now.  Unfortunately, I think I almost have to go 4 Megas to get that since I want Amulet and Sandals first to go with the -1 to hit aura command trait.

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Open this weekend with a Mirror Match.  My Taker Tribe will be facing a Stomper Tribe with a Warstomper, Gatebreaker, Mob and three solo Mancrushers.

Taker helps with the Mirror on bodies.  If I can break up the Mob at least head-to-head I control the objective.  But as Stomper the tribe I have zero experience with, and haven’t played any mirrors yet, thought it worth reaching out to see what people would do on either side of this “Family Feud”.

My list for the tournament this weekend:

Allegiance: Sons of Behemat
- Tribe: Taker Tribe
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: 

Leaders
Kraken-eater Mega-Gargant (490)*
- General
- Command Trait: Very Acquisitive - Krakenskin Sandals 
- Artefact: Glowy Lantern  
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant (525)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Warstomper Mega-Gargant (470)

Battleline
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (170)

Core Battalions
*Bosses of the Stomp - Magnificent
**Footsloggas - Unified

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
Drops: 6
 

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The nice thing about Taker vs Stomper is the Mancrusher extra damage won't affect you since you're units of 1, not 10 or 20.  I bet you could almost take out a Mancrusher from the Mob with boulders/debris in your first round of shooting, then finish some more off with a multicharge against the same Mob.  Then relax and let the dice unfold gently over the next 4 battle rounds.

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Everyday's a good day to take your Sons to War!
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The finished army.  Could spend hours doing more details and fixing my mistakes but in the end satisfied with how they look.

Back from the tournament after going 3-2 with both losses coming in “family feuds” (nothing like starting off a tournament  with back-to-back mirror matches…).

Lost my opening match of Power Struggle to the Stompers due to a bad decision in R3 when I chose Slay the Warlord as my tactic instead of choosing Bring it Down on one of the remaining solo Mancrushers.  Once I’d made that mistake felt I had to commit the resources to trying achieve it which meant too much if my resources went into a task probability suggested wasn’t highly likely to work and didn’t.  So when I came up short I not only fell the three VP behind but that meant they had the solo Mancrushers to retreat out of combat and steal objectives and complete tactics.  That pushed me into riskier strategies in R4 that resulted in getting tabled.  A tough loss but one I could learn from.

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Trying to Slay that Warlord cost me this game…

The second match was The Vice, which I would’ve felt pretty great about against almost  anything but Sons (admittedly not the 4 Fox LRL list at the tournament…).  As it was I was up against a 4 mega two Kraken-eater Taker Tribe.  When my opponent dropped all their units on the back line, 3 on one side and the non-general KE in the other, I decided on a plan to move up my KE and WS to block off the middle where the final objective would be, taking advantage of some “deadly” terrain as modest discouragement to trying to flank around the side, while ferociously advancing my Gatebreaker and two Mancrushers right at the basic KE.

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With a deep deployment they didn’t move from in their first turn except with the solo KE I had a good plan… dice didn’t cooperate but it was still a good plan.

Really everything went to plan as far as movement, initiative and charges with my scoring the Hold More in R2 with three objectives and positioning the two other Megas such that when combat was engaged in  R4 my opponent couldn’t contest without taking one or both down.  
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Close may count in horseshoes or hand grenades but not in AoS.  1 wound shy was a Gargant sized swing in this battle of attrition…

What didn’t go right was the dice.  In R2 getting the double as mentioned saw my Gatebreaker and two Mancrushers charge right into the KE, doing a lot of damage.  I should’ve been able to finish the KE off, even after my Opponent’s GB joined the fracas but I came up 1 wound shy, which allowed them to Feral Roar (I’d roared the GB and Titanic Dueled the KE) when they activated, doing good damage.  Then I got doubled allowing , after my Roar failed, the KE to be Feral Roared again and attack first before it finally went down.  

This was about a 20 Wound swing in a battle of attrition, that would see my GB fall in my turn R3, so even though I got Held More again in R3 having burned the other objective in my opponent’s territory I was now in a deficit with my two remaining Megas and a Mancrusher against my opponent’s three remaining Megas only two of which were lightly wounded.  I’d lose that battle of attrition, missing out on a couple of secondaries negating my hold more advantage, and again be tabled in the final round.

Even with losses was having a lot of fun against good opponents and learnings a lot about the army by seeing very different style lists being played.

My other three matches were against Khorne (two Bloodthirsters and a whole bunch of Mortals), Gristelgore FEC, and Boulderhead BCR.  

Against Khorne in Marking Territory my opponent overloaded the NW with the mortals so I basically rotated the board counter clockwise with my KE kicking the objective SE, while my Mancrushers pinned the units in the middle and I advanced WS and GB towards the Bloodthirsters in NE.  When I won initiative I R3 was able to choose to go second, burn the objective in NW, while waltzing onto the one in the NE having cleared the Bloodthirster in my opponent’s turn.  Had I lost initiative would’ve needed some Longshanks shenanigans and to deal with a summoned Bloodthirster but things went my way so all good.

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WS in position to take NE objective once that Bloodthirster taken care of.

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The game of keep away continued as after three rounds of chasing me my opponent was finally in position to attempt multiple charges… all of which failed.

Against FEC my opponent Had my go first in First Blood so I marched onto the objectives preparing to get slammed… only to have them choose to Ferociously Advance with 3 out of their 4 RTs, including the 2 AGKonRTs so they couldn’t charge.  They got the double so they would get to charge next turn but really felt they’d wasted a turn of damage dealing when they really could’ve picked a target and focus fired to take out a Mega.  Instead in R2 they split 2/2 against my KE & a Mancrusher in the SE and my WS in middle.  From there it was all downhill for FEC and they continued to prioritize tactics over primary VP (e.g. using their summons for Savage Spearhead but then putting the Flayers in the corner so they had zero chance at a charge until after I’d wiped out all the RTs).

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And… we’re just gonna engage in a truly epic staring contest I guess?

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That’s more like it.  But too little too late for my opponent.

I’m far from a 3.0 expert but I am familiar with FEC I did try and talk to him once the game was all but over about how he could adjust how he played if he wanted to stick with Gristelgore but also talked to him about how he could switch thing# around, mainly with what he already had, to play a more competitive Blisterskin list.

Final match was Savage Gains and this time I went Clockwise, having my KE kick & follow the objective NW while ferociously advancing my GB and two Mancrushers go straight N to the W objective while WS claimed the E objective in a very lonely jog.  When it became clear my opponent was going to move all four Stonehorns (2 FLOSH, 2 SHBR) to take the Eastern objective I used Finest Hour in the WS to at least give him something to think about when charging.  

It worked so while they took the VP when I won the initiative I had a fully healthy WS that could saunter to the W and attack the SHBR on the far flank instead of facing 4 activations.  More importantly I now only had 2x Mournfang and a Huskard on Thundertusk between me and 4 VP for their primary objective. KE, after another good kick to the NW of my former primary objective, and a Mancrusher were able to get into it.  We’d have some good fights after that but I was just banking too many VP and by R4 I’d table my opponent.

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Another epic stare down…

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The Huskard’s perspective as Kraken-eater and Kraken-snacked prepared to charge…

Overall had a great time.  Favorite Moments?

- Winning R3 initiative against Khorne thanks to a 1-1 tie.  I am notorious for losing initiative rolls in casual games.  I once went three games in a row without winning a single one, including one game I never rolled higher than a 2.  But my last two tournaments I’ve done good to great with them.  But to win an initiative that handed me the game with a one.  Felt “epic” given my history.

- Against FEC his super up AGKonRT finally did come in and took my KE to 34 Wounds.  He fought back, killing the AGKonRT… to then die to the bat explosion!

- The move block working in the Vice with Longshanks not in play for charges meaning the terrain meant they just couldn’t get far enough around the flank leaving one mega 1/4” out and the other 1/2” out after pile in so even when one of my Megas went down I held it for one more turn.  Still lost but the dice rolls are what they are so nice when something you can control works.

- EVERYTHING about my game against BCR. NOT because it was my biggest win of the tournament but because I was playing against another narrative nerd and the stories we were telling each other about the fights on the table were everything I could ask for.  Narrative a huge part of game for me but I don’t expect to be indulged at a tournament, nonetheless game 5 when my opponent is losing big.  But he went all out with his descriptions. THANK YOU!!!

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Oh the stories that were told of this battle (while in progress).

Biggest Disappointment

- Gosh Darn it All I really want to stuff someone in me bag.  Played five games and only got a few chances in the Khorne game, all of which failed. It is a set of abilities I love but never really get to take advantage of.  Can’t believe I went a whole tournament w/out doing it…

 

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I took my 4x Megas list to Hammerfest GT, a 70+ person event in Houston last weekend, to a 4-0-1 finish. Got Best Destruction and Best General.

The list was simple: Breaker Tribe (Idiots with Flags), 2x Gatebreaker, 2x Warstomper. Gatebreaker general with Louder than Words and Amulet of Destiny.  1990 points so triumph never mattered. Everything in Bosses of the Stomp with the Unified bonus to make it 1-drop.

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It was a great event. A quick summary of my matches:

Round 1: Kharadron Overlords, custom skyport. Mission was First Blood and all terrain was Mystical. I played it real sloppy at the start but my opponent failed to even get close to bringing down a gargant turn 1. Mystical terrain is very good for the Sons. It was a fun, competitive game and the impact mortal wounds on the charge are very good against KO boats. I got the win by small margin.

Round 2: Lumineth Realm-Lords, Alumnia. Mission was Tectonic Interference, terrain was Arcane. My first game against Teclis but even with magic tricks this went like every other game I've played against Lumineth so far, a big stomp. Opponent conceded round 2.

Round 3: Sons of Behemat, Stomper Tribe. Mission was Savage Gains, terrain was Damned. When I look at other Sons armies I'm afraid of playing against Taker Tribe (since I just can't compete on objectives with them), but not Stomper Tribe. He had 1x Warstomper, 1x Kraken-eater, 2x3 Mancrushers. I managed to kill most of the mancrushers very early thanks to a long charge and a sneaky pile-in maneuver. Opponent called it round 2.

Round 4: Seraphon, Coalesced-Thunder Lizards. Mission was Power Struggle, Sinister terrain.  I figured my best chance was to push all four guys forward and force him to split fire while denying the objectives in his own deployment zone. It worked out pretty well as only two units of Saurus Knights were able to flank around to my objectives, but not soon enough that my surviving gargants couldn't interfere with them. I also managed to pull off the Manskittles battle tactic from the White Dwarf rules in this game.  I won with one gargant left on the board.

Round 5: Disciples of Tzeentch, Hosts Arcanum with Archaon. Mission was Feral Foray, Inspiring Terrain. Took a similar strategy as last game since trying to defend my 3 objectives didn't seem like a good or fun plan.

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Failed the long charge with the red-hooded gatebreaker so I didn't see a reason to make the easier charge with the other. Running and just trying to deny the middle objective probably would have been smarter. I pulled ahead on points by a lot early on, but Archaon and Horror shooting (which I underestimated) started taking gargants off the table, eventually culminating in an 8vp round 5 where he tabled me. That denied my grand strategy and got us the rare Aos 3 draw.  I never tried to kill or put any damage on Archaon when I had the choice, figuring he was just too buff, but I think it might have been right to give it a try with the Gatebreakers at one point. Maybe next time.

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Some excellent and epic battle reports there!  Thanks to you two for posting, with nice pictures (wish my phone camera wasn't busted).  

I had trouble with Pink Horror spam as well using my Sons.  Honestly I think they are OP even for their 200 points.  They shouldn't be allowed to split versus MW I think, and I'm hoping they get rid of the rend-1 bonus for any but Flamers/Exalted Flamers in the Eternal Conflagration in the next Tzeentch tome.  Those two nerfs, and I think those are fair nerfs, would help balance them out quite a bit.  End rant.....

But I found a plastic Archaon in a bits box, just the dude himself.  So he will be getting my next megagargant kitbash.  Actually kind of an upgrade from Dorghar, aside from a slightly less amazing armor save, and MW shield, and all the other junk Archaon normally does.

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Its worth noting that Horrors can't split if you stuff them in bags/pick them up/similar abilities, they only split if slain with wounds or mortal wounds. Also I felt like the shooting gets neutered once you get the pinks off the table. Ultimately they were just annoying in my game, but they weren't Eternal Conflagration in that one.

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Well, I've dove head first into the big boys. Going in with Sons on my first tournament this Saturday. Sadly, the tournament limited battalions to exclude white dwarf battalions so I had to brainstorm and come up with a list with what I had on hand. I'll be running this:

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I really struggled with figuring out artefacts and whatnot without the nice battalions from White Dwarf. As stated, it'll be my first tournament with these guys, as I usually run a double Terrorgheist FEC list but I'm greatly looking forward to it. According to BCP, I'm the only Sons player so I don't have to worry about mirror matches. I'm super stoked to try these guys out (I've had two practice games to learn) and I'm not expecting to place high as I'm using it as a learning experience for future tournaments.

Will post batreps afterwards and lessons learned. Wish me luck!

Edited by Keggers
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11 hours ago, Keggers said:

Well, I've dove head first into the big boys. Going in with Sons on my first tournament this Saturday. Sadly, the tournament limited battalions to exclude white dwarf battalions so I had to brainstorm and come up with a list with what I had on hand. I'll be running this:

vTZqxgp.png

 

I really struggled with figuring out artefacts and whatnot without the nice battalions from White Dwarf. As stated, it'll be my first tournament with these guys, as I usually run a double Terrorgheist FEC list but I'm greatly looking forward to it. According to BCP, I'm the only Sons player so I don't have to worry about mirror matches. I'm super stoked to try these guys out (I've had two practice games to learn) and I'm not expecting to place high as I'm using it as a learning experience for future tournaments.

Will post batreps afterwards and lessons learned. Wish me luck!

Sry but what a pile of s*** is this rule to forbid battalions from WD which are legal and official. SoB have only one battalion which left…unfair I think. I think the other players are afraid of our big boys😉

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14 hours ago, Keggers said:

Well, I've dove head first into the big boys. Going in with Sons on my first tournament this Saturday. Sadly, the tournament limited battalions to exclude white dwarf battalions so I had to brainstorm and come up with a list with what I had on hand.

To me, I wouldn't even attend that event since the TO is not allowing something perfectly legal.

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Eventually making some more progress on my Sons of GorkaMorka.  Skin is done for now (needs scars and warpaint), so starting to work on the details now. 

I've just signed up for the Warhammer World Team event at the end of next month and going to bring these big lugs to motivate me to finish them.  Going to be ice themed bases, so starting to play with some GSW liquid frost, great stuff.

 

On the tactics front, I'm not coverting any more any time soon so going to be rolling with Three Megas and Three Mancrushers, but not decided at all which flavour or which tribe. Only thing I'm set on is at least one Wizard (the Mega-Prophet) so Glowy Lantern or Arcane Tomb are a must.

First question for the community, with 3 Megas should I run the Mancrushas individually or in a big mob?  Definitely advantages to either and really struggling to make up my mind.

 

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