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Gareth 🍄
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There’s a 3k event in September in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA called the Brew City Brawl.  I’m considering running the SoBs with Kragnos there.  

With the new monster rules and CAs and hero abilities I’m thinking the Breaker Tribe isn’t as needed for Gatebreakers.  Leaning toward Taker Tribe actually for the extra model count on objectives since enemy models will be counting for more in some cases in 3.0 rules.   

490 =Kraken Eater General 

1575 =3 Gate-breakers

695= Kragnos

170= 1 Mancrusher 

Not sure about artifacts or ‘enhancements ‘ yet, waiting for the new rules for those.  I would just need to make 1 more Gatey.   I like their rend and boulder throw....the bossy pants for those sniping weak enemy heroes is pretty nice though.  

Any thoughts ?  I could run my Ogors: 2 Frostlords and 3 beastriders on Stonehorns backed by 3x4 Ironguts and a butcher and 2 Slaughter-masters.   But....they might be too tiny.   Also I’m thinking the total scoring model count would be 90 or 130 for the Sons vs a mere 80 for the Ogor idea.   

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Hi all,

For 3.0 I am looking at running Kragnos with my SoB. What I am trying to decide currently is whether to:

a) Run a Kraken Eater, Warstomper and 2x Mancrushers alongside Kragnos.

OR

b) Run a Kraken Eater, Gatebreaker, 1x Mancrusher and Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos. 

OR

c) Run 2x Gatebreakers, 1x Mancrusher and 1x Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos.

In my head, Emerald Lifeswarm alongside the new ways of healing for simply being a monster/ hero (can’t remember which) seems to be really effective but I bet the reality of it is disappointing.

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I used my Gatebreaker Tribe vs FEC on Saturday; and the big boyz were victorious!  We used what 3rd edition rules we could muster, namely the Core Battalions, Battle Tactics every turn, Monster stuff, CA limits and the new CP generation and new CAs.  

I had Gatebreaker (Louder than Words, Bossy Pants, Portcullis), another Gatey, KrakenEater, and 2x1 Mancrushers (and the new points costs, had some left over but oh well).  He had 2x20 Ghouls, 6 and 3 CryptFlayers, foot King, foot Arch Regent, King on Terrorgheist, all in 1 drop army.  

Old mission on 6'x4' table, Total Commitment.  He let me go first and the Kraken Eater kicked my back center objective forward, since we now contest objectives for units starting in range of them, so that's nice.  He and a Mancrusher approached the center of the table.  General Gatey went up the right side towards his bone throne near the two foot heroes, nearly killed one with 2 boulders, and then killed the one with monster stomp or crushing charge (forget which) and then clobbered the other one along with half a ghoul unit, but rolled a 1 to smash the throne.  Ghouls got in like 2 wounds.  Lone Mancrusher scored my right objective.

Bottom of 1, he moved up 6 Flayers with Terrorgheist to my Kraken Eater and Mancrusher, took both down about half.  Feeding Frenzy limited to once per turn is such a relief!  FEC players disagree though :D

He got top of turn 2 and finished off my KrakenEater and center ManCrusher, and this turn we remembered to do Battle Tactics and he picked the Monster killing one (duh!).  His 3 Flayers charged my general Gatey but neither they nor the remaining ghouls got to attack cuz they got squished by him.  

I scored his back center objective bottom of turn 2 and got my battle tactic of taking over an objective that he controlled.

Then I got turn 3 priority and rolled in with my general and only rolled a far enough charge to get to his remaining central Crypt Flayers, failed to Crushing Charge it, but the pile in let me swing into the Terrorgheist and clobber that to death.  He conceded after that.  I found a terrorgheist head in a bits box at my FLGS for a trophy!

The SoBs have earned their place as next on my finish-painting list.  

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1 hour ago, T e e t h p a s t e said:

Hi all,

For 3.0 I am looking at running Kragnos with my SoB. What I am trying to decide currently is whether to:

a) Run a Kraken Eater, Warstomper and 2x Mancrushers alongside Kragnos.

OR

b) Run a Kraken Eater, Gatebreaker, 1x Mancrusher and Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos. 

OR

c) Run 2x Gatebreakers, 1x Mancrusher and 1x Emerald Lifeswarm alongside Kragnos.

In my head, Emerald Lifeswarm alongside the new ways of healing for simply being a monster/ hero (can’t remember which) seems to be really effective but I bet the reality of it is disappointing.

I've been toying with this idea as well.  However I don't think the giants feeble wizardry is reliable enough to warrant a Lifeswarm attempt.  I want it to work but just don't think it will.  

List a) seems the best.  Kragnos at least can do the damage of a Gatebreaker reliably, just gotta be more choosy about targets.  And I think he can still be 'behind terrain' for a cover save now and get a +1 to save or something, mitigating rend a bit on the way in.  Taker Tribe is nice for the extra objective control, though Stomper Tribe could help you out by bum-rushing those Mancrushers in for an alpha charge plus beaucoup damage; plus the model tossing of the Warstomper :D

That sounds pretty fun actually.  I'm gonna try that next time I play.

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11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I've been toying with this idea as well.  However I don't think the giants feeble wizardry is reliable enough to warrant a Lifeswarm attempt.  I want it to work but just don't think it will.  

List a) seems the best.  Kragnos at least can do the damage of a Gatebreaker reliably, just gotta be more choosy about targets.  And I think he can still be 'behind terrain' for a cover save now and get a +1 to save or something, mitigating rend a bit on the way in.  Taker Tribe is nice for the extra objective control, though Stomper Tribe could help you out by bum-rushing those Mancrushers in for an alpha charge plus beaucoup damage; plus the model tossing of the Warstomper :D

That sounds pretty fun actually.  I'm gonna try that next time I play.

Unfortunately cover is capped at 10 wounds. 
 

be interesting to see if Kragnos can work, kind of worried MW will just tear him up. Especially this edition which is introducing better saves bringing MW spam armies seems prudent. It feels like most of the recent armies can just give out MW for fun.

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Played my first game of 3rd on TTS last night.  Took takers tribe 1x KrakenEater general with glowy lantern and flaming weapon, gatebreaker with amulet of destiny, warstomper, and 3 single mancrushers.  Played vs trip thirster khorne with a couple of skull cannons, a secretor, one priest, 4 units of reavers , and a unit of hell hounds.   We tried out the new Feral Foray battleplan.  

It's a naturally bad matchup for Khorne and predictably we called it end of 2.  They just have no chance on objectives vs taker tribe, I'm somehow faster then they are (Why on earth do thirsters only have 10 movement??) and I think its honestly too many wounds for khorne to chew through reliably, so they can't really play keep away objective game, but also can't really meet us head to head all that well. So not sure where it leaves them in the matchup, at least for thirster lists.

Really enjoyed 3rd rules though.  I like how the scenarios are much more limiting on how many points you can score from main objectives, so its harder to build huge insurmountable leads early, and battle tactics matter a lot.  Battle tactics and grand strats are obviously really favorable for us (even though I missed mine t1 haha), which is great. 

CA's are really, really interesting.  Bottom of t1 I had a battletactic to kill one of his thirsters where after movement I'd have an easy 6 inch rerollable charge from my warstomper to get to him.  But I completely forgot about redeploy when choosing it, and he redeployed the thirster to make it a 10 inch charge.  I only hit a 7 first and then a 6 which was only enough to carry me into an imperfect screening unit of reavers.  However, because of the new pile in rules only pinning you to the unit instead of to the model, I was able to pile in 3 inches to be just within 3 of bloodthirster.  So I was still able to unload on him, but I fluffed on shooting against it and didn't quite get the rolls I needed in combat and left him with 4 wounds so missed the battletactic anyways after all of that.  But the pile in did allow me to also clip one of his objectives so it was still a win.

I think my biggest takeaway is that CP's felt super scarce.  Game only lasted 2 turns but we were both chronically depleted on them just because there are so many useful CA's you want to use, second player turn 2nd round we both had 0 CP for the entire turn.  So while I do think things like redeploy and unleash hell are very abusable and potentially problematic, I do think CP limitations are going to make some of the craziness we are expecting a little harder to manage.  This does put a lot more emphasis then I thought their would be on the generic battalions though.  Because getting those free uses of CA's or an extra CP or 2 is going to be a much bigger deal then I thought it would be before.  Which is honestly not great for us, since we have almost no access to them.  Though CA's aren't quite as necessary for us as other armies so prob not too too bad.

Last observation I've got, battleshock feels pretty big now.  There just weren't generally CP left over for auto passing tests on his end, and even if there had been only 1 unit at a time could have been affected.  This is honestly great for us, because we have no battleshock unless we take 3 mancrusher units and while last edition our shooting felt fairly minor from my perspective, its effective enough to ping a couple units for a few wounds, and all of a sudden against low ld units that matters.  I was also able to unleash hell on the blood thirster that has that big mortal aura with my gatebreaker and the 4 wounds took him down a bracket on the damage table causing the aura to do less then it would have that round.  So while I think overall I'd prefer all the pro shooting stuff to be dialed back, it actually can benefit us some as well haha.

Overall it feels like a much more enjoyable and interactive game then 2nd, and all the hype for Sons feels mostly justified.  I do think balance wise gunlines are going to be a problem for everyone until GW can get shooting units pointed properly for all the new abilities that help them.  But in general I'm really happy with the rules after my first game.

 

Edited by tripchimeras
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If I have 2 Mega-gargants and Kragnos. Can I technically get the Linebreaker Battalion if I make a Mega the general instead of Kragnos? Because to my understanding Kragnos is a leader alongside whoever is the current general. Meaning I have 2 leaders and technically only one Behemoth that isn't a leader.

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24 minutes ago, T e e t h p a s t e said:

If I have 2 Mega-gargants and Kragnos. Can I technically get the Linebreaker Battalion if I make a Mega the general instead of Kragnos? Because to my understanding Kragnos is a leader alongside whoever is the current general. Meaning I have 2 leaders and technically only one Behemoth that isn't a leader.

All megas are leaders.  So no.  The only battalions we can take as of now are Battle Regiment and Hunters of the Heartland.  Maybe FAQ gives us an exception, but at the moment we are super limited, because Megas can only count as commanders and maneaters only count as troops.

 

PS Important to note that Generals have nothing to do with battalion composition.   I've seen this confusion elsewhere.  All that matters are the battlefield roles assigned to each unit in the pitched battle profiles and how many wounds a unit has.

 

PPS If you are taking Kragnos you definitely want the Mega to be the general.  Kragnos always counts as one and cannot take any enhancements.  There is 0 benefit to not making a mega your general.

Edited by tripchimeras
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Know everyone moving on to 3.0 which is super exciting for Sons but need to submit my list for a good bye to 2.0 ten player, three round tournament on Friday.  Other armies likely to be Nurgle (2x), Slaanesh 2x, SCE, IDK, Mawtribes (BCR centered), Squigs GSG, and either Seraphon or Soulblight.

I’ve got in three short games with Sons and feel pretty good about 3/1/1/1 Mancrusher foundation.  Think Breaker Tribe bonuses can make a difference and Gatebreaker has definitely shown through.

Tough call is on the second Mega.  Tempted to just go with another Gatebreaker and go all in with the Fierce Loathings (either Shiny Uns or Bossy).

Allegiance: Sons of Behemat
- Tribe: Breaker Tribe (Fierce Loathing: Shiny 'Uns)

Leaders
Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant (490)
- General
- Command Trait: Extremely Bitter - Bossy Pants and Clever Clogs 
- Artefact: Enchanted Portcullis  
Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant (490)

Battleline
3 x Mancrusher Gargants (480)
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)
1 x Mancrusher Gargants (180)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142
 

But while I haven’t gotten to really use them yet the Kraken-Eater’s objective Shenanigans just seem too good to pass up.  Three games obviously a very limited data set to draw from but from reading this thread for a while those two options both seem valid.

 

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Ok guys. Im playing the Sons at a big event in JULY. AoS 3. I'm fiddeling with list atm. I want a Gatebreaker, thats all I know for now. 

Has anyone come up with some preliminary list to share? 

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5 hours ago, Dejnar said:

Ok guys. Im playing the Sons at a big event in JULY. AoS 3. I'm fiddeling with list atm. I want a Gatebreaker, thats all I know for now. 

Has anyone come up with some preliminary list to share? 

I think its a little early to tell what the best Sons build is going to be still.  Like I've gotten only 1 game of 3rd in personally, there have been no tourney results to pick through and the army faqs aren't even leaked yet.   So the good and bad news is we don't know which kinda leaves you going into prepping for the July tourney blind, but it also gives you complete freedom from being over burdened with Netlists to just go with your gut and see what happens.

But since you've asked, personally the way I've been thinking about it so far is that we want to best leverage our objective advantages and make it as easy as possible to collect the battle tactics VPs.  On top of that with monstrous reactions monsters get better the more you take (more d3 damage dealers).  So I think this puts maneaters in quite a strong position as they give us more board control and are also pound for pound our best damage dealers at this point (though obv they make us a little more fragile which isn't great for the shooting meta).  I think at bare minimum its going to make sense to have 3 single maneaters in a competitive list. So I'd say that is a pretty good place to start for your tourney in July.  And combine that with wanting a gatebreaker (who wouldn't?) that already curtails what you'd want to bring right off the bat.  So I guess my preliminary suggestions just off of trying to get as close as possible to filling the full 2k points, would be either:

A. 1 of each mega in a taker tribe + 3 single maneaters (this is what I'm starting out with for now). I'm thinking glowy lantern and the amulet of destiny for artifacts. And you can put them in the 1 drop batallion for a 3 drop list.

B. 1 gatebreaker and 1 warstomper with 3 single maneaters and a unit of 3 maneaters. Think you put Amulet of destiny on the gatebreaker and you've got a 2 drop list on your hand.  Probably go stompers tribe in this one since +1 to hits are so readily available now?

But that is entirely based on me thinking 3 single maneaters are good to have, and pt filling from there haha.  So I could be totally off base once the dust settles.

Edited by tripchimeras
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Just to check you know each monstrous action can only be carried out once per phase? Not sure if I’m misreading but it sounds like your expecting multiple d3 MW stomps. 
 

That aside very similar obviously wait to see FAQ but right now I am leaning towards triple solo mancrusher in Taker tribe, one of each mega then shrug and sandals on the Kraken. I love the sandals really brings his damage output up more in line with other megas. 

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4 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Just to check you know each monstrous action can only be carried out once per phase? Not sure if I’m misreading but it sounds like your expecting multiple d3 MW stomps. 
 

That aside very similar obviously wait to see FAQ but right now I am leaning towards triple solo mancrusher in Taker tribe, one of each mega then shrug and sandals on the Kraken. I love the sandals really brings his damage output up more in line with other megas. 

Yep worded very poorly, my bad.  In my head I just meant the more models that can do it the more flexibility you have with where and how you use the monstrous reactions each turn. 

They just up your flexibility all over the place.  Only real downside is that because they count as monsters and are battleline they are pretty premo VP generators for opponent.  But I think the trade off is worth it.

Yeah sandals are great, probably better then the wizard.  While flaming weapons helps in a similar way, its obv not reliable, but I do really like the idea of having a Giant mage, and now that its better then before I'm too tempted.  Plus that unbind isn't worthless either, though its not going to stop a ton with no modifiers.

 

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16 hours ago, Dejnar said:

Ok guys. Im playing the Sons at a big event in JULY. AoS 3. I'm fiddeling with list atm. I want a Gatebreaker, thats all I know for now. 

Has anyone come up with some preliminary list to share? 

Agree with @tripchimeras we're all just experimenting right now, so have a go, see what works and most importantly - please come back and let us know!

My SOB list building strategies at the moment are:

1) Mancrushers insta-die to everything, so they will bleed out "Kill a Monster" VPs

2) Most Battleplans have 3 or 4 objectives, and you only need to hold a majority (not all), and you remove one mid-game, and you can port them around with a Kicker.  So the TL:DR is that only having 4 units doesn't scare me

3) Gatebreakers are amazeballs and I am with you all the way on wanting to run one!

4) The 5++ ward thing is essential

5) Sons can win games by racking up surreal amounts of bonus VPs from Battletactics.  The game can get beyond a careless opponent before they know it, and you should often be able to find paths to victory even in games where you can't charge

So my first list would be 4 Megas, or if not, 3 Megas and a 3-block of Mancrushers.  That extra bit of durability is so, so important to what I see as your main win condition of surviving for 3+ turns while racking up bonus VPs.  

If I had an event this weekend, I would run either:

Takers

Kraken Eater, 40 wounds CT

Kraken Eater

Warstomper

Gatebreaker, 5++ Artefact

1975 for a good Triumph bid

Breakers

Gatebreaker, 40 wounds CT, 5++ Artefact

Gatebreaker

Warstomper

Warstomper

1990

 

No need to spend CPs on Battleshock, just kicking butt and stayin' alive.  I'd probably run the first one tbh, you've got so many ways to win almost every matchup and it's really tough for your opponent to do enough - quickly enough - to stop you.  I reckon you'll dominate!  

Good luck mate, let us know what you end up running and how it goes.

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The Taker Tribe is certainly looking good to me.  I think with the All Out Attack, Heroic Finest Hour, and Titanic Duel, Gatebreakers don't need the Fierce Loathings as much.  My Kraken-eater can double as a Warstomper, but those two list options above are pretty awesome!   I'll need to make another Kraken-eater or Warstomper and magnetize the weapon on one of my Gatebreakers.

The CA from the Stomper Tribe are pretty darn good to make the Mancrushers work, and another mega can use the CAs from the universal list for the best of both rulesets.  

Magic will be a problem, namely some of the endless spells.  I read somewhere that Soulsnare Shackles will be preventing charges, and Geminids will stop CAs from being issued or received by units?  I thought models could move through endless spells now though, but can't have their bases on top of them.  At least that's something, but still those could be maneuvered to prevent big giant pie-plates from maneuvering.  (kind looking forward to trying a 3 endless spell army out using my Spiderfangs vs the SoBs for practice 😛  )

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Wow guys. The response!! 

Ofc, i will come back with a tournament report when I'm done. 

My initial thought was 4 megas. But I only have 3 atm with no time to buy and paint up a forth. 

As some of you said Breaker Tribe, my favourite, falls a bit flat compared to Taker in this new edition. What's really annoying though is that Kraken+Gate+Gate+3x Crushers are 2010 points. ☹️

I have decided on Kraken as General, Gate as another and then ill keep fiddeling. 😀

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10 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

1) Mancrushers insta-die to everything, so they will bleed out "Kill a Monster" VPs

Yeah this is my concern with my single mancrushers.  But in my mind its hard to get past a 4 unit army with nothing to deal with the likes of teleporting units into your back objectives etc.  I know kicking can help with this, and the importance of primary VPs has  decreased a lot.  So on balance the free VP mancrushers are giving away very well may not be worth what versatility they provide.  The 2 ed player in me still can't grasp that 4 mega's would be anything but a fun gimmick haha.  But they do offer serious VP denial that can't be understated, you're right.  Honestly would love if its our best option, so hope you are proven right!

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I think I am going away from Stomper tribe to getting a Kraken eater to run 1 of each mega and a block of 3 mancrushers in taker tribe.

Taking very acquisitive trait, then get glowy lantern on the kraken eater and the 5+ ward on gatebreaker.

I play tested this list and the combo of all out attack or all out defense along with using finest hour is just crazy. If a particular gargant is in a picke, you can choose that turn to be finest hour and save a CP for all out defence for a 2+ save, that is just disheartening for many on a 35 wound model.

Mancrushers are still reliable damage, the charge of 3 at once averages to around 5 MW just from that, while they are more squishy, they are also a great "missile" with auto run of 6+charge when needed and chuck rocks is a decent range attack to help take down support heroes etc. 

Remember that 1 VP for a monster death is per round basis, so if you lose all 3 in a turn, (as Gimli said) it still only counts as one. While the Sons have sooo many advantages on the grand stategy and battle tactics. 

I tried this setup against a FEC list and boy did that hurt them. Roar alone cripples whatever terrorgheists that wants to come in and fight twice. Kraken eater with flaming weapon just moving dudes away and cycling finest hour and all out defence for the most exposed mega, while flanking with the mancrushers while everyone counts as a crazy amount of models, most armies cant even get units above 30 anymore!

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Just to be clear 3 solo mancrushers doesn’t really give up VP easier than 3 in a unit as the rule triggers off dead monster not the whole unit. Only thing it makes easier is the bring it down tactic but equally 3 solo is an easy way to get 3 VP from ferocious advance turn 1. 
 

4 mega though does have a lot lower chance to bleed VP that’s for sure. Although I struggle to see a 4 mega build that I want. I don’t really want multiple Kraken, multiple breaker is best but then it only works with dual stomper and ideally I want one of each. 
 

I do agree that with new missions a 3 blob of mancrushers has some interesting elements, gives some additional shooting and if you lose two statically rally is quite a good option. 

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Apologies if this has already been answered and I missed it.   But a few people on FB have mentioned that they want to go with the Taker Tribe, then use Very Acquisitive, followed by taking the 5+ Ward for Artefact #1 and Something like Glowy Lantern for Artefact #2.  But I'd be interested whether you guys think that's legal?  The wording for Very Acquisitive is a little funky for my brain to wrap around.  It says you can take 1 "extra trophies taken by force artefact".

I keep reading that to mean, you have to take one from our own table, for the 2nd one to count as 'extra'.  Otherwise, if you take a general artefact (like the 5+ Ward), the next artefact you take isn't an extra Trophy by force artefact.  But I misread rules all the time :D so I don't trust myself.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Celadoor said:

Apologies if this has already been answered and I missed it.   But a few people on FB have mentioned that they want to go with the Taker Tribe, then use Very Acquisitive, followed by taking the 5+ Ward for Artefact #1 and Something like Glowy Lantern for Artefact #2.  But I'd be interested whether you guys think that's legal?  The wording for Very Acquisitive is a little funky for my brain to wrap around.  It says you can take 1 "extra trophies taken by force artefact".

I keep reading that to mean, you have to take one from our own table, for the 2nd one to count as 'extra'.  Otherwise, if you take a general artefact (like the 5+ Ward), the next artefact you take isn't an extra Trophy by force artefact.  But I misread rules all the time :D so I don't trust myself.

 

 

Unfortunately, I think you’re on to something and I think it’ll need an FAQ. I fully believe the intent is that they’re limiting you from taking other tribes artifacts in Taker, but they may also for some reason decide they want it to restrict the universal from working with Very Acquisitive. Doesn’t seem very watertight.

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3 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

Its valid that a unit of 3 Mancrusher speaks 3 Monstrous Rampages because they are 3 monsters or only one Rampage because its just one unit?🤔

21.0 says a unit with the monster keyword is A monster. i.e one monster. 

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