Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣

[Peegee]

Lorewise, is there some visual references of Gargants warpaints, scriptures or runes?

[Forrix]

3 hours ago, Gareth 🍄 said:

From the Godbeasts book:

 

"Wherever he goes, Brodd carries a huge granite pillar - both his symbol of rulership and his weapon in times of war"

Could this rumour engine pic be from a King Brodd miniature?

Good catch, I think you're right. I wonder if the big shield we saw is from the same miniature. Or "Miniature" as the case may be.

[a74xhx]

Current range has a 160pt aleguzzler and a 400pt 8.5inch bonegrinder. Hoping Sons are closer to the latter than the former. And no drunkenness.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

I hope our leader giant is to a giant what a mega boss is to a ardboy lol 

biggest and baddest race should have the biggest and baddest heroes!

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

4 hours ago, a74xhx said:

Current range has a 160pt aleguzzler and a 400pt 8.5inch bonegrinder. Hoping Sons are closer to the latter than the former. And no drunkenness.

I kinda want drunkenness to stay, in order to have an excuse for even more powerful allegiance abilities then normal.

also the falling over mechanic is so iconic to the giant I can’t  imagine them removing it, only giving us tools to mitigate 

[Trout]

I've dreamed of fielding an army of giants since I first picked up AoS. I'm the only person I know who regular uses the Aleguzzlers despite their lackluster stats based purely on how much I like their looks. So, to say I'm excited about this is an understatement. This could be the army I always dreamed of having (assuming this is an all or mostly giants army).

[Public Universal Duardin]

10 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

also the falling over mechanic is so iconic to the giant I can’t  imagine them removing it, only giving us tools to mitigate 

Also very realistic, after all it is a hulking monstrosity keeling over..."timber!" is a very appropriate name for that rule!

[Mutton]

14 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I kinda want drunkenness to stay, in order to have an excuse for even more powerful allegiance abilities then normal.

 

The current iteration of drunkenness is too crippling. It's the #1 reason no one brings gargants. We're talking about a rule that makes your unit sit there and be useless about 16% of the time; and it also makes 12" charges impossible---it's not a fun rule. Most abilities in the game enhance a unit's effectiveness, and I think a gargant's drunkenness should likewise work in favor of its destructive power, not against it. There are so many other ways they could go about it that would naturally include the gargants' allegiance abilities.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Mutton

[Starfyre]

23 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

 potentially lesser “cyclops” troops 

Think this refers to Cygor as it mentions killing beastmen that tore the temple down at the end of the piece.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

6 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Also very realistic, after all it is a hulking monstrosity keeling over..."timber!" is a very appropriate name for that rule!

I’m hoping for a way to buff up falling over to make it a tactic lol.

like super drunk giants who fall over more often but do massive damage when they do, so you just timber the enemy to death!

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 hours ago, Mutton said:

The current iteration of drunkenness is too crippling. It's the #1 reason no one brings gargants. We're talking about a rule that makes your unit sit there and be useless about 16% of the time; and it also makes 12" charges impossible---it's not a fun rule. Most abilities in the game enhance a unit's effectiveness, and I think a gargant's drunkenness should likewise work in favor of its destructive power, not against it. There are so many other ways they could go about it that would naturally include the gargants' allegiance abilities.

I think if it stayed as is but didn’t make you fail the charge, just strike last that phase, it could be a fun little rule which still has downsides and keeps to lore.

Also despite its regularity in a pure giants list it could be mitigated with a cp reroll pretty well (not ideal... but it could be worse) forcing them to reroll a charge Just to function is still mean tho, above solution works better

[FatherTurin]

5 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I think if it stayed as is but didn’t make you fail the charge, just strike last that phase, it could be a fun little rule which still has downsides and keeps to lore.

Also despite its regularity in a pure giants list it could be mitigated with a cp reroll pretty well (not ideal... but it could be worse) forcing them to reroll a charge Just to function is still mean tho, above solution works better

This is almost worse.  At least if you fail the charge there is a slim chance that the enemy won’t make it in either.  Making them strike list just guarantees their death against a ton of armies. 

If they absolutely have to keep the rule, then make part of the allegiance ability completely ignoring it or build re-roll charges into the allegiance for free.  If the drunk aspect of giants has to stick around, there are ways to make it competitive AND fun without the present incarnation.  Heck, the “brews of the realms” idea floated here and elsewhere can easily just replace the “if you roll a double” effect.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

16 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

This is almost worse.  At least if you fail the charge there is a slim chance that the enemy won’t make it in either.  Making them strike list just guarantees their death against a ton of armies. 

If they absolutely have to keep the rule, then make part of the allegiance ability completely ignoring it or build re-roll charges into the allegiance for free.  If the drunk aspect of giants has to stick around, there are ways to make it competitive AND fun without the present incarnation.  Heck, the “brews of the realms” idea floated here and elsewhere can easily just replace the “if you roll a double” effect.

IMagine you have 6 giants in combat and one is going to fight last, how many games is that going to drastically effect the outcome?

in fact in every fight phase there is one unit which strikes last, all this does is predetermine it 

 

[FatherTurin]

5 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

IMagine you have 6 giants in combat and one is going to fight last, how many games is that going to drastically effect the outcome?

in fact in every fight phase there is one unit which strikes last, all this does is predetermine it 

 

Touché.

[Public Universal Duardin]

17 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I’m hoping for a way to buff up falling over to make it a tactic lol.

like super drunk giants who fall over more often but do massive damage when they do, so you just timber the enemy to death!

They'd have to change the roll-off requirement - otherwise our Gargants could fall over each other like a bit out of Three Stooges! Which would be, admittedly, extremely hilarious but would anger more competetive players.

[novakai]

I am hoping that any new models of Gargants are not all Aleguzzlers and are some other type like fire or stones.

going to be interesting what GW's naming convention is going to be

[Public Universal Duardin]

35 minutes ago, novakai said:

I am hoping that any new models of Gargants are not all Aleguzzlers and are some other type like fire or stones.

going to be interesting what GW's naming convention is going to be

Calling it now, Sizzlebreath and Marblehide Gargants!

 

[Kramer]

20 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

They'd have to change the roll-off requirement - otherwise our Gargants could fall over each other like a bit out of Three Stooges! Which would be, admittedly, extremely hilarious but would anger more competetive players.

Honestly, just like KO and beastclaw raiders before mawtribes, an army with such a out of the box playstyle is almost impossible to balance for the top.

KO with their shooting and transport. BCR with their monster army. 
It’s such an fine line. As soon as the monsters are strong enough to clear an objective, having the double means the decimate half an army. Make them slightly less powerful and suddenly they can’t clear an objective and become dependent on the double. Same goes for the nerfs to the original KO. 

I think that’s going to happen to an all gargant list. If they make it an competitive army it’s going to overshoot and be nerfed. 
Or it’s going to be a more sub top/fluffy army. With tripping and all.

Although I expect them to be the intelligent gargant that have been mentioned in the lore recently. So wouldn’t fit as much there. 

[Dankboss]

I think Sons of Behemat will be set apart from Aleguzzlers. The old lore will no doubt be changed and rewritten. While Aleguzzlers are the classic giant, and are mostly found independently depending on the army they've joined, Sons of Behemat I hope have a more refined appearance and theme, more akin to ogres, than wandering idiots, and hold the legacy of their age of myth ancestors. The gargant king appears intelligent and not overly belligerent, so some semblance of order would be nice. Aleguzzlers imo work thematically best alone. I don't like the idea of an army of non-cohesive drunk idiots who fall over all the time.

And I play Troggoths.

[Dirtnaps]

10 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

I think Sons of Behemat will be set apart from Aleguzzlers. The old lore will no doubt be changed and rewritten. While Aleguzzlers are the classic giant, and are mostly found independently depending on the army they've joined, Sons of Behemat I hope have a more refined appearance and theme, more akin to ogres, than wandering idiots, and hold the legacy of their age of myth ancestors. The gargant king appears intelligent and not overly belligerent, so some semblance of order would be nice. Aleguzzlers imo work thematically best alone. I don't like the idea of an army of non-cohesive drunk idiots who fall over all the time.

And I play Troggoths.

I actually agree with you, my thinking is that Aleguzzlers could be essentially the lowest class of gargant or gargants that have been exiled for whatever reason. 

[Public Universal Duardin]

5 hours ago, Kramer said:

Honestly, just like KO and beastclaw raiders before mawtribes, an army with such a out of the box playstyle is almost impossible to balance for the top.

KO with their shooting and transport. BCR with their monster army. 
It’s such an fine line. As soon as the monsters are strong enough to clear an objective, having the double means the decimate half an army. Make them slightly less powerful and suddenly they can’t clear an objective and become dependent on the double. Same goes for the nerfs to the original KO. 

I think that’s going to happen to an all gargant list. If they make it an competitive army it’s going to overshoot and be nerfed. 
Or it’s going to be a more sub top/fluffy army. With tripping and all.

Although I expect them to be the intelligent gargant that have been mentioned in the lore recently. So wouldn’t fit as much there. 

Very true, I don't think we'll see much of an Aleguzzler-based army (tbh I question whether we'll even see Aleguzzlers as part of the army proper or if they can be only taken as allies) because you'd either have to completely rewrite their warscroll or the allegiance abilities would all be based on making Aleguzzlers...well...less random.

 

Then again, I'm not at all competitive and have always had for horrible fluffy rules so I'm the last person to weigh in how to make something work and still be fair.

 

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Public Universal Duardin said:

Very true, I don't think we'll see much of an Aleguzzler-based army (tbh I question whether we'll even see Aleguzzlers as part of the army proper or if they can be only taken as allies) because you'd either have to completely rewrite their warscroll or the allegiance abilities would all be based on making Aleguzzlers...well...less random.

 

Then again, I'm not at all competitive and have always had for horrible fluffy rules so I'm the last person to weigh in how to make something work and still be fair.

 

Yeah 100% my thoughts. 
something new (Intelligent race of giants) would be easier then reimagining aleguzzling gargants. 

although their reimaginings are pretty spot on. 

[Public Universal Duardin]

So, fellow Behemat buffs, Aleguzzler aficionados and humongous habitués - we'll most likely not receive any new info or teasers before Lumineth are released, something that other threads have already pointed out might be some time in the future.  But as we wait a very, very long time and discussion may run dry - has Lumineth changed your expectations for Sons of Behemat? Or are you happy to get a chance to crush some pointy-ears? Mayhaps your hearts are filled with a dark desire to see SoB as Order, so you may combine Teclis with a pack of marauding giants? Or, have you lost hope, tearing your hair in despair as the possibility of SoB being just a modern Dogs of War looms over us?

 

[DestructionKev]

Yeahhh !! Sons of Behemath, doesn't matter how good or bad they will be, i'm totally in! 

[DestructionFranz]

51 minutes ago, DestructionKev said:

Yeahhh !! Sons of Behemath, doesn't matter how good or bad they will be, i'm totally in! 

You stole words from my mouth.  

New Destruction army automatically means new investement for me 🙂