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Gareth 🍄

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14 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

SoB will also have an easy time choosing a grand strategy, as every model is battleline, hold the line becomes quite obvious, you get it if you are not tabled

And if you’ve got that 5+ FNP on your General how many opponent’s will take Vendetta?

Battle Tactics though could balance out the good position Sons finds itself in re: Grand Strategies.

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2 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

And if you’ve got that 5+ FNP on your General how many opponent’s will take Vendetta?

Battle Tactics though could balance out the good position Sons finds itself in re: Grand Strategies.

image.png.85fb5e2bcf1d0f4981af578900524c5c.png

Battle Tactics are great for the Sons!

Broken Ranks: gives more points for unit destroyed by monsters, win!

Conquer: N/A

Slay the Warlord: More points if done by a monster, great!

Ferocious advance: +1 point if 3 monsters run together, good for us!

Bring it down: Kill a monster, ok easy enough for the opponent, but if done by a monster +1 VP so evens out.

Aggressive expansion: Pretty easy to put a toe in for gargants, they are great at that sort of thing.

Monstrous takeover: Super super easy, hold an objective with a monster not contested by an enemy monster haha free success.

Sabage spearhead: Monsters in enemy zone gives +1 point, well win for gargants!

So all in all these are all at a massive favor for SoB, I'm thinking it will be super hard to get the better of the gargants as many of these will be almost impossible to stop the gargants from achieving at some point along with the grand strategy, without a MASSIVE show of force early on.

 

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Yeah it’s shaping up to feel like Gargants will be very strong at all elements of new scoring and will only struggle if opponents prioritize killing the mancrushers and maybe a lone mega and then make it hard to score for only a couple of mega left. 
 

I think going second turn 3 could be really key for SoB to remove an objective at the point in the game SoB are low on unit number.
 

also savy opponents may just leave some  models on an objective a gargant is already on but not in combat . To stop it moving off to claim a second objective without losing the first. 
 

All in all playing SoB in AoS3 is going to be very engaging and technical which is funny as by the fluff they’re very simple. 

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Just hoping that if a Megagargant is the General, can it still count as a battleline?  If so that's awesome because I got Kragnos hoping I could run him with my Sons, and since Kragnos is dropping to 695, I can fit him in with 2 Gatebreakers and 1 Mancrusher; which would give 3 battleliners.  

 

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22 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Just hoping that if a Megagargant is the General, can it still count as a battleline?  If so that's awesome because I got Kragnos hoping I could run him with my Sons, and since Kragnos is dropping to 695, I can fit him in with 2 Gatebreakers and 1 Mancrusher; which would give 3 battleliners.  

 

There are no rules at all which take battlefield roles away from a unit unless it has a conditional battlefield role that is satisfied, ie. something becoming battleline if x general is taken. As none of the battlefield roles are conditional it means they are all active all the time.

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17 minutes ago, Injuryprone said:

Will all these changes make mega gargant mercenaries finally worth it?  

Still think most armies got monsters that works better in their own allegiances for the points, even for Destro, Ironjawz want mawkrushas, Gitz want manglers, ogors got stonehorns etc.

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29 minutes ago, Injuryprone said:

Will all these changes make mega gargant mercenaries finally worth it?  

I don’t think outside SoB they’re worth it on the whole. Inside SoB I do think you could maybe try a full defensive list whilst still having a lot of holding power from Taker tribe. 
 

Kraken eater with -1 to hit aura 

gatebreaker 5+ ward 

warstomper merc for additional-1 aura 

3 solo mancrushers. 
 

now every mega has some form of additional defence. Is it an improvement, honestly not sure but it’s my best idea for including a merc. 

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I like the idea of doing something like this: 

Kraken eater - General with Very acquisitive and Glowy Lantern. Flaming weapon 

Gatebreaker with Amulet of Destiny 

Gatebreaker

Mancrusher

Mancrusher

Soulscream bridge 

Rerolling charges triumph. 

Not at home, so I can't check whether a mega could even fit within 6" of the bridge,though. But it could be a nasty alpha. 

Though, I'm considering how useful Gatebreakers are now as you can't stack +1 to hit. They still hit hard, but with Flaming weapon on, you get similar damage on the others. You need to get it off, sure, but it allows you to play around their point increase. 

 

 

 

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I'm in the process of assembling Mega Gargants. I know obviously there's still a level of uncertainty owing to the new edition drop, but I was hoping to get some opinions on my list prior to me assembling things and finalizing configurations.

Taker Tribe
1x Kraken-eater General; Very Acquisitive - Glowy Lantern
1x Gatebreaker, Amulet of Destiny
1x Kraken-eater
1x Warstomper

Where I'm uncertain is the Warstomper. I was originally going to do 1 of each mega G just for variety's sake, but is there a compelling reason to use a Warstomper, especially in a 3.0 environment? Given the decline of hordes, the Warstomper's club seems to not have the same "oomf" or consistency it might've otherwise had, and Hurled Body has always seemed situational. The Kraken-Eater provides a lot of objective/scenario control by virtue of his ability to manipulate objectives and that seems useful at all times/in all matchups.

Should I just be going with 3x Kraken-eater 1x Gatebreaker? Due to the point changes, I cannot take a Kraken-eater and 2 Gatebreakers and still fit a 4th Mega G in the list itself. If I were to go 2x Gatebreaker, 1x Kraken-eater, I'd then only be able to put in a pair of smaller Gargants and end up with a significant points deficit that would render me quite sub-optimal on points. 

Alternatively, I could do 2x Kraken-eaters, 1x Gatebreaker, and a Mancrusher Mob, but I'm not sure what a Mancrusher Mob does that's necessarily better than a Kraken-eater/Warstomper etc.

Any input or opinions would be appreciated.

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3 hours ago, thundering said:

I'm in the process of assembling Mega Gargants. I know obviously there's still a level of uncertainty owing to the new edition drop, but I was hoping to get some opinions on my list prior to me assembling things and finalizing configurations

There is a video somewhere of how to magnetise the megagargants so that you can swap between them easily.

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4 hours ago, thundering said:

I'm in the process of assembling Mega Gargants. I know obviously there's still a level of uncertainty owing to the new edition drop, but I was hoping to get some opinions on my list prior to me assembling things and finalizing configurations.

Taker Tribe
1x Kraken-eater General; Very Acquisitive - Glowy Lantern
1x Gatebreaker, Amulet of Destiny
1x Kraken-eater
1x Warstomper

Where I'm uncertain is the Warstomper. I was originally going to do 1 of each mega G just for variety's sake, but is there a compelling reason to use a Warstomper, especially in a 3.0 environment? Given the decline of hordes, the Warstomper's club seems to not have the same "oomf" or consistency it might've otherwise had, and Hurled Body has always seemed situational. The Kraken-Eater provides a lot of objective/scenario control by virtue of his ability to manipulate objectives and that seems useful at all times/in all matchups.

Should I just be going with 3x Kraken-eater 1x Gatebreaker? Due to the point changes, I cannot take a Kraken-eater and 2 Gatebreakers and still fit a 4th Mega G in the list itself. If I were to go 2x Gatebreaker, 1x Kraken-eater, I'd then only be able to put in a pair of smaller Gargants and end up with a significant points deficit that would render me quite sub-optimal on points. 

Alternatively, I could do 2x Kraken-eaters, 1x Gatebreaker, and a Mancrusher Mob, but I'm not sure what a Mancrusher Mob does that's necessarily better than a Kraken-eater/Warstomper etc.

Any input or opinions would be appreciated.

I’m not really sure multiple Kraken is worth it. They tend to have the lowest average damage output (warstomper is variable) and only one per friendly hero phase can kick no matter how many you have. At full health a warstomper only needs to be in range of 6 to get full damage output or 1 and a monster. They also have potential to have full damage output even at 1 wound remaining so I do think one in a list with correct play should always be getting in good swings.  
 

As such I think in taker one of each mega and 3 solo mancrushers will be really good. The 3 mega tank and fight while the smaller ones at counts as 15 are holding or stealing objectives.  

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Hello,

I just went from a 2 day event in Paris, 5 rounds with the Gargants, here is how it went :

I took a stomper tribe,

Warstomper, Eager for the fight Mantle of the destroyer

Gatebreaker

3X1 and 1X3 Mancrushers.

I chose the stomper tribe, partly because of the Parisian metagame, which resolves sometimes around spamming good units ad nauseam, and partly because the Warstomper is the coolest looking guy of the lot. Eager for the fight was always my favourite trait of all but the artifact was a switch from the Ironweld cestus, when the bravery 10 was taken in account when fighting Cathallars and Stonemages. It proved invaluable. I also switched from a Krakeneater to a Gatebreaker at the last moment because I knew there would be a need for even high rend in this tournament plus a couple of boat/nexus to destroy and finally, objectives manipulation proved to be a diapointment or a niche activity in my testings. Sometimes gamewinning but too many times useless.

 

Game 1

Khorne on Blood and Glory

reaper of vengeance.

Archaon + Daemon prince + Bloodsecrator +2x5 hounds and 15 chaos warriors + 2 warshrines.

I let him take the turn1, where he stacks piles of buffs on archaon which is now on a lot of 2+ rerollable on every stats and he sits on his objectives and pass the turn, shielded by the Prince that deny any charge. On my turn I take one of his objectives which was only guarded by 10 hounds with the pack of 3 Mancrushers +1 solo who kills them all but one. He took the initiative on turn2 and made the long charge and SLAY my Gatebreaker and use his big fat base to engage also 2 mancrushers. He made a crucial mistake by attempting a duel with his daemon prince on a mancrusher but he ends up dying with headbutts + two timber on his face. This move frees me from the charge deny and this is a relief. On my turn I  advance on his side, he has a heart attack when he realise that the pack of mancrushers can go 14” move and can steal his last objective on a long charge that I don’t make, so he lives another turn. But he looses both his warshrines on the Warstomper plus 3 mancrushers. He has the turn again but Archaon is considerably weaker now. He charge my mancrushers and kills them but receive 19 wounds from the warstomper, ooops. In my hero phase he elects to flee from the Warstomper with 3 tithe points and flee behind a huge wall of chaos warriors. I only have the warstomper and a single Mancrusher left, I charge his chaos warriors, kills the Bloodsecrator on impact, but before I obliterate his warriors I pick one of them and chuck him into Archaon for two mortal wounds that he didn’t save and dies. Outstanding. Then I took all four points and won.

1-0

 

Game 2

Idoneth on 3 places of power.

Classic list with Volturnos, 9 Ishlaens a farting eidolon, turtle and 4 sharks.

The TO ruled the SOB designer’s note so I can’t alterate the rule of objective control UNLESS i can contest it by being within 6’.

He took the turn 1 and simply gain one point by putting the eidolon on a point and refrain from advancing too much. In my turn I advanced with everything but he was out of range so I simply scored 3.

I got the initiative so I went hyper aggressive. With careful concerted charges impact on ishlaens I manage to open a path for the gatebreaker so he can reach the Turtle. He spent all his points on reroll saves which completely negates anything that wanted to kills an eel (except for the warstomper that seized one of them on a 6 and chuck it back into the unit. The Turtle died to the Gatebreaker to my greatest relief and I score 6. On his turn he retaliate and killed the gatebreaker and 4 mancrushers. I got the turn 3 and simply disengage on objectives for scoring 9 so he can’t get back. Victory. Hero scenarios are stupid with SOB, even with some tempering on the Designer’s note.

2-0

 

Game 3

OBR on Starstrike.

Katakros, a caster and 120 mortek are boredom incarnate but a common sight in paris where spamming is a thing.

Both our turn 1 are simply gain CP, GO on each side (no CP for me due to Katakros).

He got the init Turn2, advanced with everything, tagged the objective that landed on a side and elected for a charge on 4 mancrushers that where positioned so a solo MC is in front of 3. This proved to be a huge mistake as my positioning both put him outside of +1A of Katakros and only allows hi to springle Dammages on several Mancrushers at once. Even dammaged the retaliation is cruel for him and the +2 dammage from the stomper tribe hits hard and there was only 5 morteks left.

The rest of the game is simply me combo-charge each pack of 40 morteks one by one with as many gargants as I can while disengaging and ignoring Katakros. The damage is too much for him, the stomper tribe bonus and my ability to remove the hekatos is gamewinning.

3-0

 

Game 4

Idoneth, same list as before on Scorched earth.

Scorched earth is a pain for gargants, even with 6 units and Idoneth is one of our worst matchups as the damage is to high on their side.

Knowing this I elected for a bold plan. I tricked him, making him believe that I would go defensive so he would deploy very aggressively, which he does. He gives me the first turn and he had a heart attack when he sees me toot “Get a Move On, You Slackers!:” for auto run at 6 on all Mancrushers and beeline toward him with everything, not even flagging any of my objectives. I only have a couple of 4” charges so it is easy. Every Ishlaens dies on the charge but when the moment of striking the sharks and turtle happens the dices fails me and instead of killing all of them, I kill none. Loosing models in your own turn is terrible but it is what happened. He double turned me after that and throw me out of the table on his turn2. Loose. Sometime a good plan is not enough.

3-1

 

Game 5

Daughter of Khaine on Blade’s edge.

Morathi, cauldron, hag, 30 30 20 sisters of slaughter.

Activation war Is not dead and Gargants don’t like that.

I let him start and he shily put a foot on every objectives on his side while throwing the Shadow Queen on one of mine. On my turn I toot “Get a Move On, You Slackers!:” ignoring completely the Shadow Queen while moving around her. But I failed all charges (with rerolls) except for one for a lone Mancrusher who kills 15 Sisters but dies in the retaliation + spiked shields + martyr prayer.

Happily for him, he got the turn (or would have died otherwise) and charged Morathi into both mega gargants that where too close. Mindrazor pops and another Mancrsher dies but he wisely screens the 4 last remaining, knowing the damage a single could cause and waiting for a better opportunity while he murder the other flank. Morathi cut 25 wounds on the warstomper and take 3. On my turn I make the good ol’ "disengage on an objective" with both mega and charged with the 4 screened gargants. I got clever and used 3 “stuff them in me bag” to open a hole for a single gargant so he can get into a unit behind so he can remove 20 sisters all by himself. I got the double, chuck a rock into Morathi to make her mid-life. And kills everything but his cauldron and both Morathi. He made a mistake and double charged the intact Gatebreaker instead of the wounded warstomper. His cauldron avatar kills all my remaining Mancrushers. Morathi didn’t kill the Gatebreaker and gets on 3 wounds left. I got the turn with relief because he would have killed the Gatebreaker in the hero phase. I killed morathi and closed the game with a duel with the avatar.

 

4-1

 

Not bad with the gargants. Interestingly, the top 4 of the tournament is

1)Idoneth

2)Idoneth

3)Garganrs (me)

4)Idoneth 2 turtles

 

Afterthought:

The army is deceptively fragile, unable to tank Rend-2 dammage in any way and you need a bit of luck on the Initiative roll. There was also a  bit of luck involved into the pairings as I wouldn’t have been able to defeat some Kroak or Ironjaws that came in the tournament.

Army list was a good call. The breaker of the taker tribe wouldn’t have done anything for me where the stomper tribe helped me deal with the mass of models some players presented me. The mantle of the destroyer was a huge winner, making me reroll freely 8 to 10 charges in every game so, nearly 50 charges in the whole tournament. Gargants lives or die by their ability to charge the opponent.

Zero stress army plus finishing every game 1 hour before anyone is a reciepe for getting drunk at the bar.

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Mega-Generals! I have a 1500 point tournament coming up in 2 weeks, and I'm bringing my Sons for a last hurrah of 2.0 before 3.0 officially starts.

My list is:

Gatebreaker - General - Louder than words - iridescent rage blade - Bossy Pants

Warstomper

1x3 Mancrusher

Extra command point 

1500pts

This will be my first games/tournament in a year, AND my first time running my big bois, so I'll need all the advice and wisdom you clever clogs can give me!

 

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19 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

I’m not really sure multiple Kraken is worth it. They tend to have the lowest average damage output (warstomper is variable) and only one per friendly hero phase can kick no matter how many you have. At full health a warstomper only needs to be in range of 6 to get full damage output or 1 and a monster. They also have potential to have full damage output even at 1 wound remaining so I do think one in a list with correct play should always be getting in good swings.  
 

As such I think in taker one of each mega and 3 solo mancrushers will be really good. The 3 mega tank and fight while the smaller ones at counts as 15 are holding or stealing objectives.  

Interesting, I always do the math on every unit in my faction, but for whatever reason I was just too lazy to do the warstomper because its variable and just assumed he didn't do more(and in 2nd SoB just didn't feel like optimization really mattered with where they were in the power curve).   But if that's true this list makes a ton of sense and feels like one of the stronger options. 

 

I do think that as much as I want nothing to do with this many mancrushers 2 and 6 or 1 and 9 feel like they potentially could be the strongest. My guess without playing any 3rd yet is that 2 and 6 is probably going to be the sweet spot, but I'm hopeful its 3 and 3 because I just don't want to have to buy more mancrushers haha.

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7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

Kraken-eater's damage has gotten much better in the new edition. He can grab up to 3 models out of a unit, which can definitely break coherency in a lot of units.

Exactly what I thought BUT:

you grab models after pile in. When you attack and the other player is smart then he pick dead models this way he dont must be afraid of coherency🤔

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2 minutes ago, Drazhoath said:

Exactly what I thought BUT:

you grab models after pile in. When you attack and the other player is smart then he pick dead models this way he dont must be afraid of coherency🤔

Actually again a win for the warstomper as he grabs “in the combat phase” so you can potentially do more shenanigans with it. Break a unit coherency after attacks or pickup a last model to then allow you to activate later and pile in 3” into another unit. 

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1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

Actually again a win for the warstomper as he grabs “in the combat phase” so you can potentially do more shenanigans with it. Break a unit coherency after attacks or pickup a last model to then allow you to activate later and pile in 3” into another unit. 

The issue being that you do your kills then your damage goes through. So if you do 10 damage and break coherency that 10 damage is going on what they lose to coherency.

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2 hours ago, Malakree said:

The issue being that you do your kills then your damage goes through. So if you do 10 damage and break coherency that 10 damage is going on what they lose to coherency.

Yeah it won’t always help, but does give some additional utility that may come up in the odd game. 

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