Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣

[KingBrodd]

39 minutes ago, Fellman said:

Most new armes ar based on a mixup of historc cultures. Wath do you think Sones of Bermhat wil be based on and what are your hopes? Im holding my thumbs for old Skandinavien gigants 

Norse/Skandinavien would be epic for the Gargants.

[NauticalSoup]

1 hour ago, Fellman said:

Most new armes ar based on a mixup of historc cultures. Wath do you think Sones of Bermhat wil be based on and what are your hopes? Im holding my thumbs for old Skandinavien gigants 

But they aren't really a 'new' army, are they? They'll almost certainly be intended to mesh with the visual style of the extant giant model. AoS armies are considerably more homogeneous in their design flavour than Warhammer Fantasy armies.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

But they aren't really a 'new' army, are they? They'll almost certainly be intended to mesh with the visual style of the extant giant model. AoS armies are considerably more homogeneous in their design flavour than Warhammer Fantasy armies.

Who knows what theyll look like. I believe the Aleguzzlar may end up being the runt of the Sons.

[Souleater]

Daughters of Khaine took a subset of models from one army and added in some more bits of Greek myth to make a couple of extra units that fit the existing look while still being quite different. 

We might see something similar with the Sons.  OTOH...we might get o e of those armies that have a distinct disparity in component races.  For example, Ogors and their little green buddies.

The trend with new AoS sculpts seems to be towards bolder, less generic sculpts. I would be surprised if we see new giants that are just bigger versions of the current Aleguzzler model.  I think GW will want to push the envelope more.  

 

Look at the details they put into the bigger Troggoths.  Big kits can end up a bit dull if they lack not just detail, but opportunities to build different variants and poses.

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Souleater said:

Daughters of Khaine took a subset of models from one army and added in some more bits of Greek myth to make a couple of extra units that fit the existing look while still being quite different. 

We might see something similar with the Sons.  OTOH...we might get o e of those armies that have a distinct disparity in component races.  For example, Ogors and their little green buddies.

The trend with new AoS sculpts seems to be towards bolder, less generic sculpts. I would be surprised if we see new giants that are just bigger versions of the current Aleguzzler model.  I think GW will want to push the envelope more.  

 

Look at the details they put into the bigger Troggoths.  Big kits can end up a bit dull if they lack not just detail, but opportunities to build different variants and poses.

I cannot wait to see what they put out. GW AOS kits are absolutely insane in the level of detail and the poses the models can have. If we only and realistically will get a couple models, I hope the posing can be very dynamic. Crouched models, lunging, swinging, picking things up, kicking anything more than the monopose Aleguzzlar.

[Public Universal Duardin]

6 hours ago, Fellman said:

Most new armes ar based on a mixup of historc cultures. Wath do you think Sones of Bermhat wil be based on and what are your hopes? Im holding my thumbs for old Skandinavien gigants 

Either the Norse gargants already wished here or Greek-inspired Gargants! If anyone remembers the titans from the old PC classic 'Heroes of Might and Magic III' you know what I'm talking about.

[novakai]

well Lumineath just got Space Cow Mountain Gargants with hammers so anything is possible these days

[novakai]

welp maybe next week

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, novakai said:

well Lumineath just got Space Cow Mountain Gargants with hammers so anything is possible these days

I cannot wait to see what the Sons will look like after they showed the Lumineth.

Unfortunately nothing this weekend but there is always next!! And a Preview will be surely on in May in replace of Warhammerfest.

[Vitch_EGS]

I'm hoping we get a knights like release. With enough parts to have them inspired by any of the four factions.

Chaos gargants bursting with horns and mutations. Destructions original Sons pure to their fathers. Orders Giants kept tame with copious amount of ale and food to keep the peace and the rotten lumbering husks of undead.

But have them all be usable together when Behemats Warhorn sounds as a stomping band of beasts doing what they do best and terraforming faces.

Edited March 29, 2020 by Vitch_EGS

[KingBrodd]

9 hours ago, Vitch_EGS said:

I'm hoping we get a knights like release. With enough parts to have them inspired by any of the four factions.

Chaos gargants bursting with horns and mutations. Destructions original Sons pure to their fathers. Orders Giants kept tame with copious amount of ale and food to keep the peace and the rotten lumbering husks of undead.

But have them all be usable together when Behemats Warhorn sounds as a stomping band of beasts doing what they do best and terraforming faces.

Personally I hope they just stay a Destruction Faction. The Aleguzzlar works with Chaos and Order already and perhaps Death will have it's own Undead Construct soon enough. I want them to be their own force, Aleguzzlars are Mercenaries working for Ale whilst the Sons are a pure army, not working with other Races and Factions as they're literally beneath them.

[Clan's Cynic]

Part of me does hope they're restricted to one faction (in this case, presumably Destruction) because otherwise we'd be liable to see every other game include one as an Ally, as 40k felt like (with Imperials being by far the most played faction) every other game included a Knight or two. It would definitely bring something unique to Destruction  which I feel is in an identity limbo of sorts, not unlike what Death was prior to Nighthaunt and Ossiarchs. Being the sole claimants of a 'big stompy monsters as literally their entire theme' would be pretty novel.

But on the other hand... I think the concept of different giants who aren't the standard 'fee fi fo thumb' brutes is pretty cool. I don't see that happening though, just because GW have always seemed very nervous about 'neutral' factions (Blood Axes and Kroot working for other armies never made it out of WD articles, Guard Detachments in GSC are arbitrarily penalised, Dogs of War didn't last too long, etc). I also don't see how they'd manage to make a Death giant work out of the same box as the others, although I suppose a few limbs and a head could have flesh peeling off. Also Lumineth are getting their own giant mountain-bull-things and I don't see them introducing 'Order giants' literally the release before/after when it might dig into those sales. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Clan's Cynic

[KingBrodd]

19 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Part of me does hope they're restricted to one faction (in this case, presumably Destruction) because otherwise we'd be liable to see every other game include one as an Ally, as 40k felt like (with Imperials being by far the most played faction) every other game included a Knight or two. It would definitely bring something unique to Destruction  which I feel is in an identity limbo of sorts, not unlike what Death was prior to Nighthaunt and Ossiarchs. Being the sole claimants of a 'big stompy monsters as literally their entire theme' would be pretty novel.

But on the other hand... I think the concept of different giants who aren't the standard 'fee fi fo thumb' brutes is pretty cool. I don't see that happening though, just because GW have always seemed very nervous about 'neutral' factions (Blood Axes and Kroot working for other armies never made it out of WD articles, Guard Detachments in GSC are arbitrarily penalised, Dogs of War didn't last too long, etc). I also don't see how they'd manage to make a Death giant work out of the same box as the others, although I suppose a few limbs and a head could have flesh peeling off. Also Lumineth are getting their own giant mountain-bull-things and I don't see them introducing 'Order giants' literally the release before/after when it might dig into those sales. 

I think Destruction needs the Sons because thematically what is more Destructive than an army of Gargants? Also Destruction has the least Factions and models of the entire range. Not to mention every other army has Greenskins in some form or another in them.

I'm wondering how they're going to go about them themselves. Behemat himself was made of stone so there is the chance they could go that route, personally though I'm hoping for thick limbed humanoid Gargants. Similar in proportion to the Game of Thrones giants but even BIGGER.

All I want them to be is Destruction alligned and not multi part kits such as the Aleguzzlar to make them available for any Faction. 

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

i think it makes the most sense to make giants multi faction as it really resonates with the original model. At the very least they should be able to ally into other factions even if they keep their destruction tag. 

as for the destruction arguments, im not entirely sure why alliances matter past surface level feelings of unity or importance. the forces of destruction  could easily be split up into multiple alliances as we all know barely any of them actually work together (not counting factions who used to be in the same army). can ogors even ally in orks? so in what way are ogors and orks remotely on the same side other then both being neutral to the chaos order fight and not  dead? it makes no sense for a setting built around the battle against chaos to have tonnes of factions who add almost nothing to it. and death doesnt count, because deaths many armies are actually 2 armies pretending to be multiple forces, just like destruction. the only difference between death and destruction is that vampire counts had more unit types. look at order (who are made up of 6 older armies, that is 6 times the amount of old armies death had), all of there races can be found in cities, and each unique faction feels like they could work together (and they do.) other then a few factions (im convinced dark elves should have their own alliance to themselves) they feel like an alliance. chaos was only 3 armies until skaven were stapled on. 

so to recap and collect my thoughts. most alliances (other then order) were only a handful of armies before AOS. the only difference between other alliances is they had more ways to split the pie. (death actually had 1 army before AOS, since the second one is petrifax, or i guess tombkings but they were... scrapped) the need for equal representation is odd to me, but this could easily be because as a longtime player i remember these armies before AOS. the only important tags in my eyes  are factions, not alliances.

im also pretty sure at one point "destruction" included dark elves, chaos,orcs and goblins, skaven and death. with tomb kings and ogres being unaligned and order being humans elves and dwarves. Old world sure was different lol

on a side note with just a few tweaks beastmen and skaven could be destruction factions.

[KingBrodd]

8 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

i think it makes the most sense to make giants multi faction as it really resonates with the original model. At the very least they should be able to ally into other factions even if they keep their destruction tag. 

as for the destruction arguments, im not entirely sure why alliances matter past surface level feelings of unity or importance. the forces of destruction  could easily be split up into multiple alliances as we all know barely any of them actually work together (not counting factions who used to be in the same army). can ogors even ally in orks? so in what way are ogors and orks remotely on the same side other then both being neutral to the chaos order fight and not  dead? it makes no sense for a setting built around the battle against chaos to have tonnes of factions who add almost nothing to it. and death doesnt count, because deaths many armies are actually 2 armies pretending to be multiple forces, just like destruction. the only difference between death and destruction is that vampire counts had more unit types. look at order (who are made up of 6 older armies, that is 6 times the amount of old armies death had), all of there races can be found in cities, and each unique faction feels like they could work together (and they do.) other then a few factions (im convinced dark elves should have their own alliance to themselves) they feel like an alliance. chaos was only 3 armies until skaven were stapled on. 

so to recap and collect my thoughts. most alliances (other then order) were only a handful of armies before AOS. the only difference between other alliances is they had more ways to split the pie. (death actually had 1 army before AOS, since the second one is petrifax, or i guess tombkings but they were... scrapped) the need for equal representation is odd to me, but this could easily be because as a longtime player i remember these armies before AOS. the only important tags in my eyes  are factions, not alliances.

im also pretty sure at one point "destruction" included dark elves, chaos,orcs and goblins, skaven and death. with tomb kings and ogres being unaligned and order being humans elves and dwarves. Old world sure was different lol

on a side note with just a few tweaks beastmen and skaven could be destruction factions.

I get the Alliances and Faction arguments as well. I just dont think they should be able to ally outside of their Alliance. I dont want the Sons to be the Dogs of War of AOS. If we want Gargants to be able to ally with other factions and races you have the Aleguzzlar. The Aleguzzlar works that way as he literally is a Drunk for Hire. The Sons should be their own thing, their own race and army. You wouldnt have a unit of Sylvaneth fighting alongside Nighthaunt or Slaanesh.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

1 minute ago, KingBrodd said:

I get the Alliances and Faction arguments as well. I just dont think they should be able to ally outside of their Alliance. I dont want the Sons to be the Dogs of War of AOS. If we want Gargants to be able to ally with other factions and races you have the Aleguzzlar. The Aleguzzlar works that way as he literally is a Drunk for Hire. The Sons should be their own thing, their own race and army. You wouldnt have a unit of Sylvaneth fighting alongside Nighthaunt or Slaanesh.

does that  mean you dont think the aleguzzlar will be part of our army?  im pretty sure it would be unprecedented to have  an army where only one unit can ally in other places (unless the chaos gargant just becomes its own unique thing? unique warscroll and  all?)

as a counter to  your sylvaneth, dryads (the unit the sylvaneth are based on) werent multi faction in warhammer were  they haha. the giant (and trolls to some lesser degree) are in a unique position, and we all know GW loves to use that  unique crazy flair on AOS factions.  we have no proof the new giants will be any different visually then our current sad drunken oaf. king brodd himself seems to be similar sized (like a warboss of giants, a bit bigger but not a twice the size) to regular aleguzzlerz if the old formation is any indication of what to expect. even his picture is the same look of the aleguzzlers. i know we've theorized new cool giant gargants and stuff but this release could just be an army of regular sized giants with more unit types.

however that being said i am of firm belief that they will be destruction only. i like the idea of multi alliance giants but the name throws that off. just as the gloomspite gitz are but 1 faction of goblins (there exists a certain breed of flying pirate goblins haha) , the sons of behemat will be 1 faction of giants. these will be the ones who take after behemat and revere him. they will be distinct to chaos giants in the same  way marauders arent freeguild despite both being human.

the reasons this is a specific group of giants is because of the pillar we saw. king brodd is the leader, and as such these are gargants with culture (we know they have elders that fight for positions of authority. and that they had a temple they are trying to get back. this points to some  god and follower like relationship with behemat. makes me think priests over wizards for our second hero choice) the aleguzzler might end up becoming a seperate thing. (i expect us  to still use his kit to make basic gargants, but that the chaos and aleguzzler will become seperate to us)

 

on a side note, bring back the troll king GW.... 

[PlasticCraic]

6 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

so in what way are ogors and orks remotely on the same side other then both being neutral to the chaos order fight and not  dead?

They all worship Gork (and possibly Mork).

[Nezzhil]

The multi faction problem was resolved time ago, and it is called mercenaries... Destruction needs a new exclusive faction to develop his own path.

[KingBrodd]

6 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

does that  mean you dont think the aleguzzlar will be part of our army?  im pretty sure it would be unprecedented to have  an army where only one unit can ally in other places (unless the chaos gargant just becomes its own unique thing? unique warscroll and  all?)

as a counter to  your sylvaneth, dryads (the unit the sylvaneth are based on) werent multi faction in warhammer were  they haha. the giant (and trolls to some lesser degree) are in a unique position, and we all know GW loves to use that  unique crazy flair on AOS factions.  we have no proof the new giants will be any different visually then our current sad drunken oaf. king brodd himself seems to be similar sized (like a warboss of giants, a bit bigger but not a twice the size) to regular aleguzzlerz if the old formation is any indication of what to expect. even his picture is the same look of the aleguzzlers. i know we've theorized new cool giant gargants and stuff but this release could just be an army of regular sized giants with more unit types.

however that being said i am of firm belief that they will be destruction only. i like the idea of multi alliance giants but the name throws that off. just as the gloomspite gitz are but 1 faction of goblins (there exists a certain breed of flying pirate goblins haha) , the sons of behemat will be 1 faction of giants. these will be the ones who take after behemat and revere him. they will be distinct to chaos giants in the same  way marauders arent freeguild despite both being human.

the reasons this is a specific group of giants is because of the pillar we saw. king brodd is the leader, and as such these are gargants with culture (we know they have elders that fight for positions of authority. and that they had a temple they are trying to get back. this points to some  god and follower like relationship with behemat. makes me think priests over wizards for our second hero choice) the aleguzzler might end up becoming a seperate thing. (i expect us  to still use his kit to make basic gargants, but that the chaos and aleguzzler will become seperate to us)

 

on a side note, bring back the troll king GW.... 

I wouldnt be suprised to have the Aleguzzlar used in one of three ways. Firstly as a battle line choice, becoming the Armiger of the Imperial Knights equivalent. That he is used as another Gargant as standard, this would only be if the new kits arent all that different from it, which I'm fairly certain theyll be at least taller. Finally he wont be in the Sons, hes the drunken runt that's exiled, a heretic for not following Behemats path.

I truly believe the new Gargants will be much larger than the Aleguzzlar, look at the Ghorgon/Cygor model, it's much taller than the Gargant which is odd seeing as Gargants are supposed to be enormous. Even the Dankhold Troggoth is taller than the Aleguzzlar which leads me to believe that the new kits will truly be some of the tallest GW does. I'm hoping they're able to look even Arachaon in his eyes.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

8 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

I wouldnt be suprised to have the Aleguzzlar used in one of three ways. Firstly as a battle line choice, becoming the Armiger of the Imperial Knights equivalent. That he is used as another Gargant as standard, this would only be if the new kits arent all that different from it, which I'm fairly certain theyll be at least taller. Finally he wont be in the Sons, hes the drunken runt that's exiled, a heretic for not following Behemats path.

I truly believe the new Gargants will be much larger than the Aleguzzlar, look at the Ghorgon/Cygor model, it's much taller than the Gargant which is odd seeing as Gargants are supposed to be enormous. Even the Dankhold Troggoth is taller than the Aleguzzlar which leads me to believe that the new kits will truly be some of the tallest GW does. I'm hoping they're able to look even Arachaon in his eyes.

The cygor is from old wathammer so I don’t think it’s a good example, however the troll is an amazing one. It’s true they seem to be scaling things up, I’ll redact my earlier statement on smaller gargants.

[KingBrodd]

18 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

The cygor is from old wathammer so I don’t think it’s a good example, however the troll is an amazing one. It’s true they seem to be scaling things up, I’ll redact my earlier statement on smaller gargants.

No problem. With what they can do nowadays anything is possible. Even the new Lumineth Mountain Spirits look huge. I'm just hoping they finally take on the role of the Gargantuan army, true behemoths. I could see Archaon of course being taller on Dorghar with his wings, but I'd like to seem rival him as well. Also being a bit stockier than the Aleguzzlar.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

No problem. With what they can do nowadays anything is possible. Even the new Lumineth Mountain Spirits look huge. I'm just hoping they finally take on the role of the Gargantuan army, true behemoths. I could see Archaon of course being taller on Dorghar with his wings, but I'd like to seem rival him as well. Also being a bit stockier than the Aleguzzlar.

Mountain spirit size would make sense

There is another’s possibility for the multifaction idea. Chaos beast men have formations that give them keywords, there could be a formation or faction (maybe called exiles of behemat or something to that effect) that gain the chaos keyword (and lose the sons of behemat rules by extension, gaining ally choices and new rules to compensate.) I could easily see it being a nice white dwarf add on which gets support every so often thru the use of generals handbooks. 

Then sons would still be destruction tied, but chaos gargants get there rules updated as well

[KingBrodd]

3 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Mountain spirit size would make sense

There is another’s possibility for the multifaction idea. Chaos beast men have formations that give them keywords, there could be a formation or faction (maybe called exiles of behemat or something to that effect) that gain the chaos keyword (and lose the sons of behemat rules by extension, gaining ally choices and new rules to compensate.) I could easily see it being a nice white dwarf add on which gets support every so often thru the use of generals handbooks. 

Then sons would still be destruction tied, but chaos gargants get there rules updated as well

I just need a proper angle on the Spirits to see their size in comparison  to a standard soldier, or better yet against a Ghorgon or Aleguzzler.

[PlasticCraic]

6 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

I could see Archaon of course being taller on Dorghar with his wings, but I'd like to seem rival him as well. 

That's exactly where the Bonegrinder sits currently.  He's actually bigger than Archaon, other than the wings pointing upwards.

I really hope we find out more this weekend 🙂

[KingBrodd]

12 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

That's exactly where the Bonegrinder sits currently.  He's actually bigger than Archaon, other than the wings pointing upwards.

I really hope we find out more this weekend 🙂

All I want this weekend for the Previews is the Sons. I'd love a reveal but I feel if were shown anything itll be a tease.