Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣

[KingBrodd]

Gatebreaker Mega Gargant painting guide.

[Scurvydog]

2 hours ago, robotnik_taco said:

Thinking about quick, paragraph or less rules page way to fix the army without touching warscrolls, I think I have an idea. Rather than what ever mega is your general determining your armies tribe, what if for each type you brought, gave the army all of those tribe specific abilities. Just a warstomper? Than your 9 mancrushers get just those abilities. Bring the stomped and the kraken eater? Than your 6 or so man crushers get both tribes buffs. And so on. This is balanced out by the fact that for each mega you take, you get fewer little dudes to even benefit from the traits, but gives multiple mega armies a reasonable functionality they lack otherwise.  Thoughts? 

The Mancrushers are already the most efficient part, I'd like to see the megas actually being dangerous, but that can't happen without warscroll changes unfortunately. The discussion going on how Lotanns squid with a club also has reach 3" and 2 dmg, same as a Warstompers Titanic Boulderclub.

While a warscroll change really is a requirement for viable territory, leaving that out considering GW hates updating warscrolls, what could be within the line of reason is maybe a little errata and possibly a new tribe in a tome celestial down the line.

For these I'd like to see disruptive presence removed from the mega gargant mercenaries, at the very least for destruction armies, they should just ally in like Gotrek does, he can already pretty handily solo kill 2 mega gargants as is, so the additional penalty to mega gargants just seem out of line and not fun at all (you get to use even less iteresting abilties... yawn). I am still a firm believer that all monsters should count as more than 1 model, but in this case the count as 20 should be a given for all Mega Gargants, mercs included.

For a SoB army I'd like to see some new overall allegiance rules, perhaps one representing a second in command mega gargant wanting to take over, the tome talks about this with the structure of these gargant tribes already. Something like "The Biggest of Rivals" - Add +1 attack to all melee weapons  for each Mega-Gargant on the table besides the general, add +2 if both a Kraken-eater, Warstomper and Gatebreaker Mega-Gargant are on the table at the same time.

I'd also like to see them have tough skin, reducing rend from incoming attacks by 1 or something similar, they really need some help on that front. I feel their weakness to magic is alright, but they should at least be better at tanking physical damage to a degree and that rule would be less disruptive against some armies than for examples seraphons scaly skin, which is just plain unfun for some armies like Ogors to face.

[KingBrodd]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/14/who-are-the-sons-of-behemat/

This article definitely hints at future units for Sons of Behemat!! Potentially a King Brodd or Leader model?!

[Scotian Giant]

I honestly think that they are going to get the Knight treatment, and within a year roughly we will be seeing a new multi unit model.

[KingBrodd]

7 minutes ago, Scotian Giant said:

I honestly think that they are going to get the Knight treatment, and within a year roughly we will be seeing a new multi unit model.

I'm guessing with AOS 3.0 and their second Battletome we will get another kit. I'd love for you to be correct though and it be far sooner.

Edited October 14, 2020 by KingBrodd

[Entombet]

Good they are so weak, my wallet is safe.

[novakai]

2 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

I'm guessing with AOS 3.0 and their second Battletome we will get another kit. I'd love for you to be correct though and it be far sooner.

Yeah I think these are the last two battletome (sons and realmlords) for AoS 2.0 since the edition change is next July and then every army probably gets an updated tome after that. 
 

though I think GW just intentionally made the army more casual and less competitive because of the Knight stigma that keeps running around but they also seem to like unreliable or swingle mechanics for destruction armies that doesn’t translate well for this type of army

[Archibald]

I think i kinda like that the new Sons aren't so competitive /the next step on the escalation of power lader. For me that takes away a bit of pressure to try to compete with the top of the top, so i can just have fun and face off against not optimized lists.

The battletome and the cards are ordered and i already have a Mancrusher. So it will be a Megagargant and a box of Mancrushers for me to play 1000p games. But i will not by the modells as soon as them come out. I will hold my horses and put a lot of thinking in colorsceme and how i will build my gargants. And who knows, maybe some beautiful gargant lover people find a way to make them work.

[Nezzhil]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

Yeah I think these are the last two battletome (sons and realmlords) for AoS 2.0 since the edition change is next July and then every army probably gets an updated tome after that. 
 

though I think GW just intentionally made the army more casual and less competitive because of the Knight stigma that keeps running around but they also seem to like unreliable or swingle mechanics for destruction armies that doesn’t translate well for this type of army

It easier. It is a Destruction Battletome, and the designers of this faction write rules more for fun, very gimmicky or very weak.

 

Look first the Ogor or Orruk Warclans battletome, the most competitive books we have, and they are only playable a few things, with only one subfaction that seems more a casual error than the intention of the designers.

Now compare the design of books like Cities, KO or Seraphon.

[Reuben Parker]

As always time will tell but I really don’t feel this army won’t be competitive because of faction rules or warscrolls. When broken down the damage output and hardness to kill actually seems pretty fine. The main gameplay issue will be lack of chaff as chaff play is a core concept of competitive play. We can get around it to some degree with solo gargant units and ranged / impact hits to clear out chaff but it will make matchups vs heavy hitters sitting behind multiple chaff screens very tough. 
 

gameplay wise the only big tweak I can see is a points adjustment to gargants 15 ppw on 5+ is steep even with pretty good damage output. This and FAQ in regards to casting / dispel and walk over endless spells. 
 

I see people asking for “fun” rules but how much fun do you have when you roll a double on a charge for an Aleguzzler? The giants have pickup and throw attacks, crushing impacts, timber etc for their fluff. 
 

let’s get some games in and see what can be done with the book as is. I think people maybe surprised as a couple of Mega setups allow for very good damage output even down to 1 wound. As such you can win games that maybe look like lost causes. 

[C0deb1ue]

2 hours ago, novakai said:

Yeah I think these are the last two battletome (sons and realmlords) for AoS 2.0 since the edition change is next July and then every army probably gets an updated tome after that. 
 

though I think GW just intentionally made the army more casual and less competitive because of the Knight stigma that keeps running around but they also seem to like unreliable or swingle mechanics for destruction armies that doesn’t translate well for this type of army

They put an astronomically larger amount of effort into Lumineth than SoB. With the same tired excuse of "fun" armies to gloss over bad rules.

Like the entire SoB battletome is one new & overpriced sculpt with not even any endless spells or terrain. Its pretty much impossible to do less.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by C0deb1ue

[dirkdragonslayer]

5 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/14/who-are-the-sons-of-behemat/

This article definitely hints at future units for Sons of Behemat!! Potentially a King Brodd or Leader model?!

One thing I noticed about AoS releases, they always like to leave a door open in the lore for expansion in a later edition. They talk about or show a group within a faction that is mostly non-existent in the army, leaving the possibility that they will be added later. Sylvaneth have the Kurnothi, Gitz have the Gitmob, Lumineth have the Tyrionites, Kharadron have vessels that have only been described, Slaanesh has their mortals, etc. There are even Stormcast chambers that have only been mentioned like the Ruination and Covenant chambers.

Heck, maybe in a few years there will be a Gargant Chieftain kit the same way the Imperial Knights got Knight Castellans, after all the hints about even bigger gargants.

Edited October 14, 2020 by dirkdragonslayer
fixed last sentence.

[Melcavuk]

Been working on a custom Gargant maker in the vein of the Anvil of Apothesis but for mega gargants for those seeking more variety in builds for narrative play, feedback always welcome:
 

 

[novakai]

44 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

As always time will tell but I really don’t feel this army won’t be competitive because of faction rules or warscrolls. When broken down the damage output and hardness to kill actually seems pretty fine. The main gameplay issue will be lack of chaff as chaff play is a core concept of competitive play. We can get around it to some degree with solo gargant units and ranged / impact hits to clear out chaff but it will make matchups vs heavy hitters sitting behind multiple chaff screens very tough. 
 

gameplay wise the only big tweak I can see is a points adjustment to gargants 15 ppw on 5+ is steep even with pretty good damage output. This and FAQ in regards to casting / dispel and walk over endless spells. 
 

I see people asking for “fun” rules but how much fun do you have when you roll a double on a charge for an Aleguzzler? The giants have pickup and throw attacks, crushing impacts, timber etc for their fluff. 
 

let’s get some games in and see what can be done with the book as is. I think people maybe surprised as a couple of Mega setups allow for very good damage output even down to 1 wound. As such you can win games that maybe look like lost causes. 

this is my thoughts, though this army was never going to have Chaff just by its thematic nature of what the army is. 

 

2 hours ago, Nezzhil said:

It easier. It is a Destruction Battletome, and the designers of this faction write rules more for fun, very gimmicky or very weak.

 

Look first the Ogor or Orruk Warclans battletome, the most competitive books we have, and they are only playable a few things, with only one subfaction that seems more a casual error than the intention of the designers.

Now compare the design of books like Cities, KO or Seraphon.

i feel like the problem the people writing the destro tome tend to be safer and actually balance the book correctly (which is a good thing for how a battletome should be) but the other rule writers either forget what balancing is  or really want to push the envelop on the mechanics and it show on certain books. all the destro tome are actually good books from a lore and fluff perspective and the rules are actually balance but just pale little bit on the power level scale.

[PUFNSTUF]

Whats the oval base size for the mancrushers? 105/170?

[novakai]

6 minutes ago, PUFNSTUF said:

Whats the oval base size for the mancrushers? 105/170?

90x52mm Oval bases

[EasyArmy]

Figured I may as well attempt my own version of King Brodd considering we won't likely see an official version any time very soon. Hopefully it goes well.

[KingBrodd]

2 hours ago, EasyArmy said:

Figured I may as well attempt my own version of King Brodd considering we won't likely see an official version any time very soon. Hopefully it goes well.

It's like looking in a mirror.

[Nezzhil]

I send a mail to them with a few questions about some skills and interactions that I don't understand, and I added my firsts impressions with a constructive point of view. I tried to understand what experience they want to develop with SoB before writing some silly or it could seem like I was crying. 

I hope they understand my point of view, I tried to be very polite and thankful for the very good things that this army have. 😄

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Nezzhil

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:19 AM, KingBrodd said:

Gatebreaker Mega Gargant painting guide.

Very cool tutorial!!

[Kasper]

On 10/14/2020 at 8:37 AM, Scurvydog said:

Well it was the same guy who wrote the Warclans book and I have still not forgiven him for that hot mess, also known as the "Warchanter book". That book suffers from many of the same issues of bland warscrolls, an inability to internally balance as few as a handful of warscrolls and a bare minimum of artifacts and sub factions that does nothing unique or interesting for the overall playstyle. 

Not to drag it too much off topic but I couldnt disagree more. The Warclans book is amazing. I havent bothered with The Choppas, but both Ironsunz, Bloodtoofs and ultimately Big Waagh each offer something very different depending on what kind of gameplay you enjoy. The army isnt just "push all your ****** forward" unless you enjoy playing that way. The few warscrolls in the army each offer something and there have been tons of very varied lists despite limited warscrolls. Ardboyz have been a bit too strong/Brutes been a bit too weak, but despite that everything else in the book is great. You have quite a few tools to deal with different armies. The combination of Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz in Big Waagh was also neat. Bonesplitterz have great casters and bodies that Ironjawz lacked. Ironjawz have some really heavy punching units which Bonesplitterz lacked. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Kasper

[Pitloze]

I saw the Mantic Games Giant floating around here as a alternative model before. But how does it compar in size?

[Sttufe]

2 hours ago, Pitloze said:

I saw the Mantic Games Giant floating around here as a alternative model before. But how does it compar in size?

They are nearly the same, both reaching about 7 inches, I believe the mega gargant is a bit bulkier however.

[JackStreicher]

I‘m just going to leave this here

 

 

Source

Edited October 15, 2020 by JackStreicher

[Pitloze]

Isn't Bretonnia with double N? 😅