DaCapo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well for now, we need more rules for sure but i m not a big fan (even tho i was hyped) the mega gargant arent super tanky they only have hp however in the current meta it's not such a bad thing cos of all the MW dealer. But the real problem for now is taking objectives and doing something about map control. Even tho mega gargant count as 20 on an objective their lack of flying ability their big base size and the fact we have at most 10 model in the army i found for now that we may lack map control and the fact we can't really choose who we target. I think we need something like tp double movement or other things like that and shooting more than stat damages in the close combat phase since anyway we lose to top meta close combat armies (except if we have a lot of debuffs) And everyday i prefer an ironclad 18 wounds 3+ rerollable once or twice a game can tp everywhere and high shooting damages input + transport ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 At first I also was somewhat unimpressed, but when you begin considering all their other special rules on top and whatever we probably have not seen yet, I think they will be quite efficient behemoths. The brackets for them are very lenient, the Kraken eater for example after taking up to 24 wounds will only have lost 1 attack, 2" move and a bit of range on his throw debris, that is hardly anything. The amount of damage you have to dish out to reduce their output is immense! That is actually terrifying even Archaon fighting twice will still not be enough to take one down and will then get a swing back with immense force still. They can simply soak a lot of alpha strikes, like eels, KO etc, and go in and counter punch with hardly any loss to output. Warhammer is very much about striking down threats to ensure as little retaliation as possible, and that is almost impossible to do against these guys. Due to this I have really warmed up to them after giving it more thought. So often you will bring a 400+ point behemoth just to lose it to a breeze with 12-14 wounds total profile. These guys are fighting all day after taking damage that would flat out KILL 2 carnosaurs! Now if we begin adding the stuff we have not seen yet, possibly command traits, artifacts and other allegiance abilities, I think they will be very dangerous indeed. The main concern and thing to look out for is how they will play the objective game. Especially with the new GHB2020 plans, demanding battlelines to take and hold, which I really thought about playing "The better part of valour" yesterday, with 6 objectives which can only be taken and held by battleline staying within 3" of it, which would be bad having to park a 3 man unit of mancrushers on. However if they get a rule in line with mawtribe monsters, then it would be very viable to have some units of 1 mancrusher for that purpose, resulting in lists like 2 mega gargants, 3 man unit mancrushers and 3x1 units of mancrushers possibly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Doko said: 150€ is way way too much overpriced(120 was the limit) i dont know who gonna buy them if they arent rich. Welcome to the 40k Imperial Knights club: fleshier version. Where we buy $200 minis in bulk and go to their Facebook's to ask for bigger models that cost $1000(no joke). 3 hours ago, Sttufe said: Seems pretty reasonable, and we haven't seen all their abilities or command traits or anything. Yeah, they're already damage sponges that can lay a nasty rend-filled beatdown but that Chuck Rocks command scares me if they'll end up mobile command towers empowering their allies and troops. It's one thing to fight titans that just charge forward but ones able to synergize and pull of combos is a newlevelbof of horror. Also I guess the Gatebreakers flavor text answers the question who they blame for Behemat's death. I hope that includes Skaven parasite engines & chaos forts into the civilization hate. Eep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said: that Chuck Rocks command scares me If used on 3 mancrushers: 3d3 shots 4+/3+ rend 1 d3 damage = average 2,67 damage against 4+ saves, it kills 1,5 liberator for 1 CP... It should not really scare anyone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Oh yeah but it's what it can possibly represent that's got me worried. We still need to see the whole list of their abilities but them able to affect other units like that really threw me. I was expecting three battering rams, not commanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaCapo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well i don't agree with some of the things you said @Scurvydog archaon double pile in khorne or slaanesh kill one of them with just reroll 1 hit, fyreslayers kill them easily, eels just wait T3 and kill the little giant meanwhile while the tanky alpha marauders can kill us and if we took some damages prior we are sure to be dead. But what we really lack i feel is mobility and projection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazhoath Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 hours ago, DaCapo said: Well i don't agree with some of the things you said @Scurvydog archaon double pile in khorne or slaanesh kill one of them with just reroll 1 hit, fyreslayers kill them easily, eels just wait T3 and kill the little giant meanwhile while the tanky alpha marauders can kill us and if we took some damages prior we are sure to be dead. But what we really lack i feel is mobility and projection But look: Archaon (800p) needs a Keeper (380p) for double pile in. For that you get two Mega Gargants. And a Keeper dies very quick in the current meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaCapo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Or a chaos lord or an allegiance ability in khrone but i dont see how gargant kills your keeper + if we go on this point the gargants gives you so much DP it's insane. The real difference with other army with big behemoth from my pov are for now less MVt/ability to fly + lacking some people ! but we will see the other allegiance abilities and subs allegiances !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Doko said: The little giants seems ok,not top level but good. Whats really interesting is the charge damage, its per model, not per unit, so a unit of 3 can put out 3d3 mortal wounds on the charge. The lack of screens will make this tough though since it will be easy for our opponents to control our charges. 10 hours ago, SleeperAgent said: Compare it to a Stardrake. It is way better. The amount of 2 damage attacks is roughly 3 times that of the stardrake. Not counting the other attacks. Stuff em in the bag is similar to cavernous jaws. And these guys have more than double the wounds. Stardrakes are notoriously not worth their points. 9 hours ago, Sttufe said: On top of that, the Ironclad costs 500 and the only thing it ups them on is transport, more than made up for by twice the wounds. Seems pretty reasonable, and we haven't seen all their abilities or command traits or anything. The ironclad can deepstrike anywhere and does that kind of damage from range, which is HUGE since it can't be screened nearly as easily. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, DaCapo said: Well i don't agree with some of the things you said @Scurvydog archaon double pile in khorne or slaanesh kill one of them with just reroll 1 hit, fyreslayers kill them easily, eels just wait T3 and kill the little giant meanwhile while the tanky alpha marauders can kill us and if we took some damages prior we are sure to be dead. But what we really lack i feel is mobility and projection Of course as I mentioned other abilities and allegiance stuff will appear, but Archaon fighting twice deals so much damage he would also kill another Archaon or Nagash at 800+ points, so this is simply a question of who hits first. Even cheaper is a Terrorgheist with just a +d3 attacks spell and fight twice command will kill anything too for a lot less points. But then we are at least comparing the absolutely most brutal murder machines to each other. 35 wounds is still some work to take down, possibly with stuff like we already were shown like the -1 to be hit from the warstompers jump up and down in the mix. And unlike eels, Archaon etc, after taking 24 wounds they are dead, the giant will still fight at hardly any loss of output. If the gargants get anything to add even more survivability I expect to see some scary stuff, depending on traits and artifacts, other allegiance abilities and possibly battalions. Keywords and synergy will also be very interesting to see, for example we have been told the grand alliances will get 1 dedicated mercenary, most likely like Gotrek allies with things, but destruction there has been no word for at all and then there is the sons own allegiance. The most critical aspect will probably be how they interact with objectives in their own allegiance. After having played some thunderlizard lists with Seraphon with about 19 models total, that is already really a problem to capture points, and a gargant army likely will sit at 6-8 models often... All the randomness so far indicates a more fun than competitive book though, however I really think a Warstomper will be fun for a StD list, as they really don't have a nice big Behemoth right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/07/sons-of-behemat-better-in-bulk/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Here we go 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth 🍄 Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gareth 🍄 said: One up 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Gareth 🍄 said: oof, I was hoping for something other than just copy/pasting the ogor rule. It definitely works though. 3 minutes ago, Dankboss said: Here we go Definitely looks like the warstomper tribe is the best so far IMO. Mancrushers already have the best rocks, and it allows multiple units to get it. Also this ability actually works on the mancrusher rocks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Mancrushers doing 3 damage on 10 attacks each is pretty nuts. It's clear to me that SoB are about taking out infantry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 For the Breakers, +1 vs Totems/ Command models covers almost all Infantry, while +1 against 4+ saves or better is probably second best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dankboss said: Mancrushers doing 3 damage on 10 attacks each is pretty nuts. It's clear to me that SoB are about taking out infantry. true, but I feel they end up being the bane of elite armies, due to high rend attacks + "count as X models" rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guui Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 So it seems like Warstomper is the pick for me. And this is an interesting way to fo subfactions, along with seeing that there is 3 artifacts for Stomper and Breaker while Eater has 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrocknerTheBear Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I'm so glad the kraken eater is my favourite. The ability is essentially how I feel about the left over bits in my bits boxes. It was ment to be.... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 While I LOVE the rule called Idiots with flags for the name alone, Stomper clans seem to be the bees knees. This seems to all be for pure sons armies though, so I guess a mercenary mega gargant might not count as 20 models, unless they get some added rule. I expect there to be some special ally rules all in all regardless to accommodate their points cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novakai Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Stomper tribe: probably the go to tribe, antihorde and the AoE command abilities all see very useful in any game Breaker tribes: depends if you can choose your loathing when you know which army your facing against, maybe better in the future if garrison becomes more used in the game Taker tribe: the bonus to objective taking is nice but the abilities preview seems somewhat situational and that we don't know what are the six artifact that can be used it does look like Mancrusher are going to be the backbone of your army 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, novakai said: Stomper tribe: probably the go to tribe, antihorde and the AoE command abilities all see very useful in any game Breaker tribes: depends if you can choose your loathing when you know which army your facing against, maybe better in the future if garrison becomes more used in the game Taker tribe: the bonus to objective taking is nice but the abilities preview seems somewhat situational and that we don't know what are the six artifact that can be used it does look like Mancrusher are going to be the backbone of your army Stomper with a bunch of mancrushers seems the best, but its possible taker might be best just because of the objective play. We shouldn't underestimate dying slowly while scoring points. Taker is probably best if you want to run 3 mega gargants, although that isn't looking like the optimal build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaCapo Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) From what we saw today we still lack mobility sadly but we are a bit more scary (especially the toss rock on unit with 10+ 20+ people) and it will be harder for some units to just go in and try to kill us since the retaliation in case they failed will be big ! Actually breaker doesnt seem so bad you take the +1 to hit heroes you go with 2 mega gargant (2 gatekeeper or 1 kraken and the gatekeeper) 3 mancrushers 2 mancrushers 1 mancrushers you can begin to reliably snipe little buffers, wizards ,+ they cant hide in a terrain feature (since you do more damages) and your natural input damages arent so bad !! Edited October 7, 2020 by DaCapo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 If someone hides a support hero in cover, then a 5 damage rock is coming their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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