Sons of Behemat Discussion 👣

[Sttufe]

Ignore and move on please. Sorry about that.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Sttufe

[Sttufe]

And I think the specific quote for this is it is actually "The classic Aleguzzler Gargant and three Mega-gargant variants – Gatebreaker, Warstomper and Kraken-eater – make for an army that’s small on model count and big in every other way" so it could go either way in getting more models.

[Beastmaster]

I think a gargant list should be even more elite than a Ogor Stonehorn list. Considering their size, the big gargants should be considerably stronger and more expensive than a Stonehorn. Maybe around 500 pts? 
The aleguzzler should go up in points (he is currently at 160, like a Tyrant, which is cheap for his size). With a new warscroll and allegiance abilities, he could easily go up to, say, 200 points (think overpowered Mournfangs, taken single  or in pairs).

That would make 1000 pts lists possible with only 2 fun to build models, quite a teaser. A full 2000 pts could be achievable with only 4 big or 2 big and 5 small giants. 
 

All the variety in the lists would have to come from different armaments, skills, abilities etc. 

A start collecting box could consist of a big and a small giant, for around 130€, and 700 pts. A good purchase, even if you only want to have the choice to ally one or the other into your existing army.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Beastmaster

[KingBrodd]

9 hours ago, Sttufe said:

And I think the specific quote for this is it is actually "The classic Aleguzzler Gargant and three Mega-gargant variants – Gatebreaker, Warstomper and Kraken-eater – make for an army that’s small on model count and big in every other way" so it could go either way in getting more models.

The only real reason I believe there could be hope for a Leader kit is that King Brodd is the only named Gargant character we have in AOS. Not only that but hes tied directly into the Lore as their Leader. This doesnt mean they will release a kit for Brodd at release but it gives me hope that in a year or so they may.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, KingBrodd said:

The only real reason I believe there could be hope for a Leader kit is that King Brodd is the only named Gargant character we have in AOS. Not only that but hes tied directly into the Lore as their Leader. This doesnt mean they will release a kit for Brodd at release but it gives me hope that in a year or so they may.

I would like them to do so, but bear in mind that not all armies have named heroes.  For example, there are no named Ogor characters aside from the Hunter from the Underworlds warband.  Having said that, new armies that come with a release wave of a few kits have always had a named character so far.  The only armies that have launched without named characters are armies that never got any new model releases (outside of maybe a 2-army box character) such as Bonesplitterz and Ogors.

I still think there are things for this army that we have not seen.  Either the mega-gargant kit builds more than the 3 variants we have seen so far (or maybe those have other weapon options), there are new kits we have not seen that have a few possible builds, the aleguzzler kit will be split into multiple warscrolls, or any combination of the above.  If we assume that they don't split the Aleguzzler into multiple warscrolls and that we have seen all of the new models - then this is an army composed of just 4 warscrolls.  I just don't think GW will put out a dedicated army book for a force that limited.  Spiderfang only has 3 model kits (that includes the resin boss on spider) but they split that into 8 warscrolls and still put the army as part of Gloomspite.  If this was going to be a 4 warscroll army then it feels more like something that should have been introduced in White Dwarf or the General's Handbook and then turned into a full army book later on when they could add another plastic kit or two. 

I think GW has mainly given us a teaser but that they still have not spoiled everything.

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, Beastmaster said:

I think a gargant list should be even more elite than a Ogor Stonehorn list. Considering their size, the big gargants should be considerably stronger and more expensive than a Stonehorn. Maybe around 500 pts? 
The aleguzzler should go up in points (he is currently at 160, like a Tyrant, which is cheap for his size). With a new warscroll and allegiance abilities, he could easily go up to, say, 200 points (think overpowered Mournfangs, taken single  or in pairs).

That would make 1000 pts lists possible with only 2 fun to build models, quite a teaser. A full 2000 pts could be achievable with only 4 big or 2 big and 5 small giants. 
 

All the variety in the lists would have to come from different armaments, skills, abilities etc. 

A start collecting box could consist of a big and a small giant, for around 130€, and 700 pts. A good purchase, even if you only want to have the choice to ally one or the other into your existing army.

I think they will be cheaper than this.  The Bonegrinder costs 400 points and I don't see them making the new gargants nastier than that warscroll.

Unless they have really crazy rules concerning how this army interacts with objectives then the army would not really function with all of the models being super expensive.  You would barely have enough models to compete with objectives, no room to sustain losses, and you would not be able to compete well on scenarios that require heroes/wizards/artifacts.

I am guessing that there is going to be tiers for the big models with probably a cheap version around 300 points and more expensive versions (or heroes) going to a bit higher.  The Aleguzzler I am guessing will become a couple warscroll versions and they will probably stay cheap and form the core of the army.

[novakai]

since they can ally into any army (even as mercenary companies) they have to be 400 pts or lower or they exceed the cap limit.

unless GW gave them a rule that ignores that cap but that seems unlikely

[Sttufe]

1 minute ago, novakai said:

since they can ally into any army (even as mercenary companies) they have to be 400 pts or lower or they exceed the cap limit.

unless GW gave them a rule that ignores that cap but that seems unlikely

I don't think every single one of them is going to be Gotrek.

[KingBrodd]

45 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I would like them to do so, but bear in mind that not all armies have named heroes.  For example, there are no named Ogor characters aside from the Hunter from the Underworlds warband.  Having said that, new armies that come with a release wave of a few kits have always had a named character so far.  The only armies that have launched without named characters are armies that never got any new model releases (outside of maybe a 2-army box character) such as Bonesplitterz and Ogors.

I still think there are things for this army that we have not seen.  Either the mega-gargant kit builds more than the 3 variants we have seen so far (or maybe those have other weapon options), there are new kits we have not seen that have a few possible builds, the aleguzzler kit will be split into multiple warscrolls, or any combination of the above.  If we assume that they don't split the Aleguzzler into multiple warscrolls and that we have seen all of the new models - then this is an army composed of just 4 warscrolls.  I just don't think GW will put out a dedicated army book for a force that limited.  Spiderfang only has 3 model kits (that includes the resin boss on spider) but they split that into 8 warscrolls and still put the army as part of Gloomspite.  If this was going to be a 4 warscroll army then it feels more like something that should have been introduced in White Dwarf or the General's Handbook and then turned into a full army book later on when they could add another plastic kit or two. 

I think GW has mainly given us a teaser but that they still have not spoiled everything.

I hope you're right and these Mega Gargants are just the beginning of something already incredible.

[Dankboss]

Apparently this is a graphic taken from the livestream which confirms the size. I initially heard they were on 130mm bases but now i think it's 160mm.

[Skabnoze]

The silhouette for the plague furnace to the left of the warstomper gargant is cracking me up.  Could they have picked a worse model to use as a silhouette?

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

To get some perspective I went back to the original Beastclaw Raiders Tome and it had 20 pages of what I would call “game specific materials” (allegiance abilities, Artefact lists, battalions, war scrolls, etc.). Given the path away from small tomes such as these GW has taken I have to think that 20 pages a bare minimum for Sons...

For a more recent example of a still small number of models faction I looked at Flesh Eater Courts.  Their tome had 26 pages.  Would guess target for Sons is actually closer to this.

Okay, for a moment let’s work under the assumption that Aleguzzler still a single war scrolls and each of the giants they’ve shown gets a single page war scroll.  So that’s 4 pages.  Let’s go with 2 pages of allegiance abilities (pretty standard unless there’s a 3rd page with summoning...), 4 pages of sub-factions, 1 page command trait, 1 page artefacts, and 2 pages of battalions.  That’s 14 pages suggesting there is at least 6 pages of “stuff” we don’t know about yet.

Any wizard or priest option adds a page of spell lore/prayers.  Endless Spells and/or Terrain piece another page or two.  Splitting the Aleguzzler scroll maybe another couple of pages.  That could get us to BCR’s 20 pages, which still leaves plenty more upside to FEC’s page count.

Maybe I just really want there to be more and I’m grasping at straws but I have to think there is more plastic (models, terrain, or endless spells) to come to fill out the pages...

[KingBrodd]

1 hour ago, Dankboss said:

Apparently this is a graphic taken from the livestream which confirms the size. I initially heard they were on 130mm bases but now i think it's 160mm.

This is exactly what I wanted from their size. To look Archaon straight in the eye.

1 hour ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

To get some perspective I went back to the original Beastclaw Raiders Tome and it had 20 pages of what I would call “game specific materials” (allegiance abilities, Artefact lists, battalions, war scrolls, etc.). Given the path away from small tomes such as these GW has taken I have to think that 20 pages a bare minimum for Sons...

For a more recent example of a still small number of models faction I looked at Flesh Eater Courts.  Their tome had 26 pages.  Would guess target for Sons is actually closer to this.

Okay, for a moment let’s work under the assumption that Aleguzzler still a single war scrolls and each of the giants they’ve shown gets a single page war scroll.  So that’s 4 pages.  Let’s go with 2 pages of allegiance abilities (pretty standard unless there’s a 3rd page with summoning...), 4 pages of sub-factions, 1 page command trait, 1 page artefacts, and 2 pages of battalions.  That’s 14 pages suggesting there is at least 6 pages of “stuff” we don’t know about yet.

Any wizard or priest option adds a page of spell lore/prayers.  Endless Spells and/or Terrain piece another page or two.  Splitting the Aleguzzler scroll maybe another couple of pages.  That could get us to BCR’s 20 pages, which still leaves plenty more upside to FEC’s page count.

Maybe I just really want there to be more and I’m grasping at straws but I have to think there is more plastic (models, terrain, or endless spells) to come to fill out the pages...

There may be even variants of each of the Mega Gargants as well for more pages, but I agree I'd love for there to be even more yet shown. A King Brodd/Leader Warscroll will probably make an appearance.

I'm also really hoping there will be a Terrain piece for the big lads. If there is only one new kit I'd still be overjoyed but it would help to pad out the range.

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

This is exactly what I wanted from their size. To headbutt Archaon straight in the face.

Fixed that for you.  We all know what you really meant to say.

[KingBrodd]

20 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Fixed that for you.  We all know what you really meant to say.

Well of course I'm glad you saw through my vagueness. 

[Skabnoze]

52 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

I'm also really hoping there will be a Terrain piece for the big lads. If there is only one new kit I'd still be overjoyed but it would help to pad out the range.

If they get a terrain kit or endless spells then I will happily purchase them.  However, this seems to me like an army where those would be an odd fit.  None of the endless spell concepts that I have heard people mention feel like they would really fit the army well to me and I cannot think of any good ideas myself.  The same goes for terrain.  These guys seem more like they would be more interested in smashing stuff than making it.  I like terrain when it fits with the army.  I honestly cannot think of a good concept for terrain for giants.  I mean, just look at how patchwork and poor the clothing is for all of the giants.  If they cannot be bothered to make a functioning pair of pants or shoes then I highly doubt they are putting effort into building much else.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

12 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

If they get a terrain kit or endless spells then I will happily purchase them.  However, this seems to me like an army where those would be an odd fit.  None of the endless spell concepts that I have heard people mention feel like they would really fit the army well to me and I cannot think of any good ideas myself.  The same goes for terrain.  These guys seem more like they would be more interested in smashing stuff than making it.  I like terrain when it fits with the army.  I honestly cannot think of a good concept for terrain for giants.  I mean, just look at how patchwork and poor the clothing is for all of the giants.  If they cannot be bothered to make a functioning pair of pants or shoes then I highly doubt they are putting effort into building much else.

Ez

sons of behemat under brodd are trying to reclaim a temple of behemat. This means that endless prayers are an easy fit as well as a terrain piece (just shrine to behemat.) 

but alternatively I think instead we could counter endless spells by eating them instead of joining the fun. Could be an artifact, trait, or just one of the big giants abilities, simple, powerful, and thematic 

[KingBrodd]

15 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

If they get a terrain kit or endless spells then I will happily purchase them.  However, this seems to me like an army where those would be an odd fit.  None of the endless spell concepts that I have heard people mention feel like they would really fit the army well to me and I cannot think of any good ideas myself.  The same goes for terrain.  These guys seem more like they would be more interested in smashing stuff than making it.  I like terrain when it fits with the army.  I honestly cannot think of a good concept for terrain for giants.  I mean, just look at how patchwork and poor the clothing is for all of the giants.  If they cannot be bothered to make a functioning pair of pants or shoes then I highly doubt they are putting effort into building much else.

My idea for terrain would that it be living not built.

A mammoth would be great for this, a moveable piece with high wounds that could buff the Gargants with ammo or carrying meat/mortals for the Gargants to snack on. A serving table that fights.

Another user mentioned having a pen full of mortals for the Gargants to eat to regain wounds. 

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

My idea for terrain would that it be living not built.

A mammoth would be great for this, a moveable piece with high wounds that could buff the Gargants with ammo or carrying meat/mortals for the Gargants to snack on. A serving table that fights.

Pack animals as terrain is an interesting concept.  However, I doubt GW would introduce creatures as terrain.  I am all for big monster kits so I would probably buy it if they make it.

[KingBrodd]

5 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Pack animals as terrain is an interesting concept.  However, I doubt GW would introduce creatures as terrain.  I am all for big monster kits so I would probably buy it if they make it.

I hope they do, of course it needn't be a basic Mammoth, something more AOS like a six legged Mammoth even!!

[Skabnoze]

So looking at the height chart it lists the Mega-Gargants at 8".  The Forgeworld Bonegrinder model is roughly 9" tall to the top of the head - which puts it equal with the top of Nagash's staff in the picture.  Given that these models are very close to the Bonegrinder in height I would not be surprised if Forgeworld discontinues it.

It is worth mentioning that the Mantic giant & frost-giant models are about 7.5" tall and the Heresy giant (mucklegeet) is about 7" tall.  So those are roughly the right size to use as mega-gargant variants.

Also for comparison - the Aleguzzler is about 110mm tall - so slightly over 4".

Edited April 22, 2020 by Skabnoze

[KingBrodd]

1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

So looking at the height chart it lists the Mega-Gargants at 8".  The Forgeworld Bonegrinder model is roughly 9" tall to the top of the head - which puts it equal with the top of Nagash's staff in the picture.  Given that these models are very close to the Bonegrinder in height I would not be surprised if Forgeworld discontinues it.

It is worth mentioning that the Mantic giant & frost-giant models are about 7.5" tall and the Heresy giant (mucklegeet) is about 7" tall.  So those are roughly the right size to use as mega-gargant variants.

Ever since the size of the models were revealed I had a feeling they were going to discontinue the Bonegrinder. 

I was originally planning on picking one up but after seeing the amount of detail and the stunning sculpts of the Mega Gargants the Bonegrinder looks quite bad in comparison.

I also believe that if they do release a King Brodd/Leader kit it will have a Bonegrinder or whichever name they go with as another build as well. 2 kits 6 models.

[Sttufe]

I think the way GW runs it that there would be like a terrain piece as like a temple that the giants didn't build, but just kind of squat in. They are trying to rebuild it, keyword try, but it is mostly destroyed.

[Skabnoze]

16 minutes ago, KingBrodd said:

Ever since the size of the models were revealed I had a feeling they were going to discontinue the Bonegrinder. 

I was originally planning on picking one up but after seeing the amount of detail and the stunning sculpts of the Mega Gargants the Bonegrinder looks quite bad in comparison.

I also believe that if they do release a King Brodd/Leader kit it will have a Bonegrinder or whichever name they go with as another build as well. 2 kits 6 models.

I am on the fence about getting a Bonegrinder model.  I kinda want it from a collector/completionist standpoint - but I would probably also convert it up to be more interesting and add a bunch of details to it.  I could also probably convert a larger scale model, one of the new mega-gargants, or even an action-figure toy.

Currently the decision is easy to make given that the Bonegrinder is out of stock in the US and I find it hard to justify their asking price for such a bland model.

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Sttufe said:

I think the way GW runs it that there would be like a terrain piece as like a temple that the giants didn't build, but just kind of squat in. They are trying to rebuild it, keyword try, but it is mostly destroyed.

if orks and ogors can make stuff then giants can too, these aren’t as stupid a creature as the aleguzzlers gives off (he is more of a drunken oaf of the giant race, even their original lore stated they are the ancestors of a glorious race of titans. The titans had weapons that the ogors stole, which is why the cannons they use on those chariots are so ornately decorated when compared to their other weapons)

giants are not trolls, and if GW treats the new giants as such I will be massively disappointed