Does Rampaging Destroyer Negate Mystical Terrain?

[StoneMonk]

I've played a few games recently where Mystical Terrain was a game changer due to key units rolling a 1 and becoming befuddled and being unable to move/cast/attack that turn. I felt it was more game-changing than any ensorceled rerolls to wound. 

I posed the idea that it can make the Rampaging Destroyer rule tricky, if some of your force launches forward and leaves behind your buffing units that have been befuddled. So obviously be more careful when near Mystic Terrain.

I was surprised that I got responses suggesting that you could choose to use Rampaging Destroyer to move away from mystical terrain without any effect because you could choose which order to roll things in for your own hero phase.

I asserted that mystical terrain isn't a choice, but a trigger, that when you're in the hero phase and you have a unit within' 3" you have to roll. I would propose that not only would that mean that becoming befuddled would keep you from using Rampaging Destroyer for that unit, BUT if you used Rampaging Destroyer, and ended your move within 3" of Mystical Terrain, you'd have to roll then as well. 

Another supporting scenario would be casting, If I can choose when Mystical happens, couldn't i roll for casting first, then choose to see if I get befuddled?

Am I crazy? Should you get to choose when you roll for mystical terrain or does mystical terrain get rolled before you want to move/cast/attack in the hero phase. (I forgot some Destruction units can choose to attack in the hero phase, which mystical would effect as well)

Any point counter point you'd add to this discussion?

[StoneMonk]

Also, because of the old Ork Animosity rule, it would seem odd that Destruction would get a pass on rolling on mystical.

[Lucio]

Seems reasonable, you can chosewhether or not you want to risk it.

[Nico]

The only consistent way I've found is to allow you to do stuff in any order, but if at any time you started near or moved near the mystical terrain, then you have to roll (although you can choose to do so at the end of the hero phase). That catches rampaging destroyers who move from or to the terrain in hero phase or units which teleport in hero phase.

It's a bit like the Bloodsecrator banner and friendly wizards - you plant the banner last so no effect on your earlier casts.

[StoneMonk]

I definitely get choosing your order when it's your own units to command... But it feels like terrain should act when triggered as it is meant to potentially disrupt your units ability to move, cast or attack.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Choombatta]

Does not the Mystical Terrain tell you to roll at the start of the Hero Phase?

[Nico]

Quote

I definitely get choosing your order when it's your own units to command... But it feels like terrain should act when triggered as it is meant to potentially disrupt your units ability to move, cast or attack.

Yeah but it doesn't say that, so the RAW brigade will shoot you down or take advantage of this. My way means that at least you have to take the test at some point in the hero phase; and it also catches you if you move near it during the hero phase through teleporting or rampaging destroyers (while if rolls were only at the start, then this wouldn't happen).

Quote

Does not the Mystical Terrain tell you to roll at the start of the Hero Phase?

Oddly - no it doesn't.

[StoneMonk]

But, where is the rule that tells you that you get to choose the order? It's implied by the fact that some things see "at the start" while others say nothing other than in the phase.

Mystical states, "Roll a dice in your hero phase for each of your units within 3" of this terrain feature" - I don't think it says "roll at the start" but in RAW form it is an if-then statement. If your unit is within 3" of Mystical terrain during the hero phase, you have to roll the dice. Because the roll affects moving casting and attacking, it certainly should be rolled before you attempt any of these things else the rule is pointless.

If you're within 3" at the start, you roll at the start before trying to move, cast or attack

If you don't start within 3" at the start, and you cast, or attack, and then if you move within 3" of mystical you would roll and if befuddled it would only really matter for movement at that point.

 

[Choombatta]

16 minutes ago, StoneMonk said:

But, where is the rule that tells you that you get to choose the order?

 

 

I will verify, but I thought it was in the FAQ about being able to choose the order things activate during your own phases.

It is odd, that 3 simple words would have cleared this up......."At the start..."

 

**EDIT** The FAQ says to refer to the "Warscroll Hints and Tips" and read the section "When to use abilities".

[Nico]

Quote

Mystical states, "Roll a dice in your hero phase for each of your units within 3" of this terrain feature" - I don't think it says "roll at the start" but in RAW form it is an if-then statement. If your unit is within 3" of Mystical terrain during the hero phase, you have to roll the dice. Because the roll affects moving casting and attacking, it certainly should be rolled before you attempt any of these things else the rule is pointless.

If you're within 3" at the start, you roll at the start before trying to move, cast or attack

If you don't start within 3" at the start, and you cast, or attack, and then if you move within 3" of mystical you would roll and if befuddled it would only really matter for movement at that point.

It could do with an FAQ answer and they might take your approach.

I'm not going to play with my hand tied behind my back if the majority of players do it otherwise (I think my approach is fair enough, the only difference is you can cast spells and use command abilities before rolling and there's rarely a reason for a Wizard to be on mystical terrain as they tend to sit back). As you've proved yourself, if it doesn't specify "at the start", then the player whose turn it is can choose the order in which stuff happens (same as casting spells before popping the Bloodsecrator banner). I'm pretty wary of mystical terrain as it is, so I doubt the issue will crop up very often.

[Sangfroid]

One of the guys who helped write this rule confirmed it could be done (verbally of course so you don't have to put any stock in what I say next ?????)  at any point in the hero phase so as it stands you can move in and out of the 3" with abilities and then when you do the mystical terrain "check" only roll for those that are still within 3" 

personally I'd like to see this changed to at the start of the hero phase but as it doesn't say this currently gives wriggle room and little real argument against it (other than a personal "I think it's meant to say this" 

so in its current form it makes rampaging destroyers and the ravager trait very very strong for us if we want it too be (nothing stopping you rolling at the start of your own phase outta principle which is what I do almost always anyway as I like to know who or what can move before i start chanting at them or if I'm going to put Inspiring presence or use other ability etc...)

[Sangfroid]

I also like @Nico idea of essentially if at any point in the hero phase you are or were within 3".... But I doubt that they will change it let alone clarify as well as that :-)

[Chris Tomlin]

I think some of the ideas and whatnot in here are nice, but at the end of the day there is no clear structure within the rules for ordering the Hero phase, therefore you are free to do things in any order you choose.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) this means you could use Ramapaging Destroyers to move away from Mystical Terrain and not have to roll. I can see why people think it's wrong and why they may have work arounds etc, but I see nothing to support the fact it doesn't work like that and would rule/allow it that way at my events.

Conversely, I have used Rampaging Destroyers to move within 3" of Mystical Terrain to gain the buff (2+ is easy...right?!) and then move away again. Some real pro play there!!  

[Lucio]

One thing someone did point out to me recently, at least Destruction have a great counter to a Balewind Vortex in this ability!

[Nico]

Quote

One thing someone did point out to me recently, at least Destruction have a great counter to a Balewind Vortex in this ability! 

 

 

 Like this

Could you explain? Are you thinking of a different ability?

[Lucio]

16 minutes ago, Nico said:

Could you explain? Are you thinking of a different ability?

The Balewind Vortex is a piece of scenary, that a Wizard can summon in that forces enemy units to stay 3" away. Since the ability, Rampaging Destroyer, works at 6", you can destroy it, negating it's special rules allowing you to then charge and krump da wizzard