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HollowHills

Do Age of Sigmar armies deserve better rules than leftover WHFB armies?

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I was thinking this today while stewing over the issues in the idoneth battletome. Also thinking about how the KO book is decent, but not likely to be top tier. 

It doesn't seem right to me that leftover armies like skaven and cities of sigmar should get battletomes with top tier rules with lots of options , while newer armies are limited to one or two competetive builds. 

Don't we want these armies with a lot of their ugly old kits to die out? Players to move over to the new aos armies that look a lot better on the table and suit the setting? 

In other words I'm basically saying that new armies deserve better rules than WHFB armies. 

Discuss.

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No.

 

Spoiler

(This post was brought to you by the Mawtribes gang) 

 

Edited by Galas
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Wait what

since when Skaven became a leftover army

Are you saying all Chaos daemons more or less leftover armies?

And orgors and orks?

And Legion of Nagash, we should get rid of that big bony ugly man for sure.

If goes that way  this game at present can be defined as a leftover game until half of the factions are thrown away

Edited by Whitefang
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I think its far less "new and old armies" and more a case that you're comparing big and small armies. Smaller armies with fewer options are going to have fewer units and thus fewer potential competitive builds within them. Look at Slaanesh, old world army, yet its mostly got one superpowered build. If you built off anything but keepers and depravity its not a bad battletome. 

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I'm sure a lot of people feel that the flying dwarf and flying shark armies don't fit the setting 🥴

 

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I think all armies should be equal in terms of attention.

Though from a competitive angle I'm glad that GW does the work for me by showing me which armies I should play easily without me having to spend a ton of time experimenting.  I'm glad that they make it easy to figure out which armies are top tier.

Based on how expensive the game is I would probably be irritated if I had to figure out what was OP instead of the rules being obviously OP or not because I'd surely spend some money somewhere that I wouldn't have wanted to spend later.  

Edited by Dead Scribe

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35 minutes ago, HollowHills said:

I was thinking this today while stewing over the issues in the idoneth battletome. Also thinking about how the KO book is decent, but not likely to be top tier. 

It doesn't seem right to me that leftover armies like skaven and cities of sigmar should get battletomes with top tier rules with lots of options , while newer armies are limited to one or two competetive builds. 

Don't we want these armies with a lot of their ugly old kits to die out? Players to move over to the new aos armies that look a lot better on the table and suit the setting? 

In other words I'm basically saying that new armies deserve better rules than WHFB armies. 

Discuss.

Skaven a leftover Army! 
clearly this man does not know who saved his faction from Nagash and his very deadly pyramid.

16 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

I think all armies should be equal in terms of attention.

Thogh from a competitive angle I'm glad that GW does the work for me by showing me which armies I should play easily without me having to spend a ton of time experimenting.  I'm glad that they make it easy to figure out which armies are top tier.

Based on how expensive the game is I would probably be irritated if I had to figure out what was OP instead of the rules being obviously OP or not because I'd surely spend some money somewhere that I wouldn't have wanted to spend later.  

Now don’t take this in anyway offensive, which is definitely not my attention, but what if the most competitive and broken army would be one, consisting of 175 skryre acolytes (cost of which would be around 1750£), would you consider buying so many metal models??

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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I'd say that if that was the MOST competitive army that the only thing that would influence me to buy that army would be if the meta had people doing that.  Historically the very powerful but very expensive in terms of money builds aren't seen very often at all.  Plus the painting time etc.  Thankfully.

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Are we talking about the Slave to Darkness leftover army who got blesses with the most incompetent book written in AOS history so far?

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6 minutes ago, Kurrilino said:

Are we talking about the Slave to Darkness leftover army who got blesses with the most incompetent book written in AOS history so far?

Not being Slaanesh/Bonereapers petrifax powerful doesn't make it the worst book ever ;)

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I totally disagree.

Leftover armies from WHFB need better/new miniatures on top of rules. There are a lot of very unique armies/concepts in there like Seraphon, Cities of Sigmar, Beasts of Chaos and Skaven that are a much bigger part of what makes Warhammer unique than just another flavor of Aelves. In fact I'd argue for them to concentrate on what's there instead of adding totally outlandish new armies...

Now I wouldn't be against them modifying those armies (new/altered background, new minis) but if they squatted those armies, I'd be really pissed off. I'd rather see them squat some of  the Aelves cause who needs 5 kinds of them anyways when we could instead get more diverse new stuff? :P

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Or.... older armies deserve newer models of existing units? :D

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Lets not forget we have seen GW revitalise old ideas with new sculpts, they just can't do it all at once. Gloomspite Gitz got several reworked models that are fantastic in new plastic. Many armies haev justification for new models and updated old ones. You can argue it for the vast majority of AoS forces. I dislike it when I see people shouting that their army should get new stuff whilst another should be squatted. 

 

Rather we all just need to be patient and wait for "our army's turn" in the lime light to get updated. I'm sure GW wants to update old sculpts that likely don't sell as well as more modern stuff. 

I can agree that its surprising how many newer armies GW is releasing, however its likely a good few of them were set in motion way back 3 or 4 years ago so its work that GW has done already and was likely done far back before they changed the AoS plans. I also can't say I'm displeased with the new stuff as I'm sitting here with a force of Bonereapers on the table before me. 

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I think KO and Fyreslayers should be the only top tier armies. 
All other armies need to be nerfed and unfun to play so other people need to watch me enjoying my duardin while being unable to get anything done. 

 

Uhm, this is supposed to be a sarcastic thread, isnt it? 🤷🏼‍♂️

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I wouldn't want need armies to be categorically better than old ones, because every soup book has brought a handful of people back to my local store to try out their old armies, and most of them have stayed active and started picking up other armies as well. From a sales perspective, that's exactly what GW wants, plus it adds more players to the community.

 

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No.

Cities of Sigmar isnt "an old army" its an Age of Sigmar battletome, with just as much justified place within the game as any other tome. 

In an ideal world all battletomed armies should be equal, not deliberately unbalanced to favour someones preferred army.

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To be clear I'm not saying old armies should be squatted. 

I liked in more in aos 1 where you could play old models but doing so meant you didn't have access to a battletome and solid rules. 

Then if GW decides to refresh the concept with a new model release the army gets a battletome. Basically like gloomspite. 

It seems mad to me now that as a new player you might be better off buying some 20 year old plastic kit that barely fits the aos setting than picking up stormcast, fyreslayers or idoneth. 

For example phoenix guard, an old high elf kit, are about three or four times stronger than nemarti but are only slightly more points. Plus they have better buffs from cities of sigmar than thralls do from the idoneth tome. 

To me these new armies should be the most competitive and then old armies should only be supported enough to let you use an existing collection. Not to encourage new players to buy them over proper aos armies. 

You also have a load of players hanging around now who don't really like AoS and like to hurl insults at stormcast, idoneth etc. Salty WHFB players who are probably the most negative people still in the hobby. (to be clear I'm not saying everyone who plays an old army is like this, just that these people exist and would only play old armies). 

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Honestly Hollow that sounds like a REALLY bad idea. 

First up GW made the choice not to remove all the old models, in fact the vast majority of AoS models ARE Old World models. So first you're saying that GW should basically be looking to remove the bulk of their current saleable models for the range. That's abad premise to make when it might take GW 5 or more years to update the whole game and update all armies with updated sculpts.

People have hated having armies without 2.0 battletomes for a year and a half; think of how much salt and hate you'd have after perhaps 5 years of "bad slaves to darkness". Esp if that was by deliberate design in the 2.0 battletomes. 

 

If the only armies worth getting were those with new models it would be an insane choice and pour so much salt onto the AoS system that it would likely see people abandon it. Even those who like Stormcast and KO would easily see that there were bad choices and a deliberate push to only buy the newest models. Would those players really want to invest into a system where in 5 years time their army could be the "old hasbeen that gets bad rules" in order to upsell the latest newest things?

 

 

Wargames are not consumer electronics. They don't operate with the same market concepts of a throw-away product line. Indeed AoS started with that very premise and it (along with other factors) was something that the community reacted very badly toward the idea of. 

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I respectfully disagree. I started collecting Warhammer in 2016, in the Age of Sigmar and have no past with Warhammer fantasy.

However, i like most of the Fantasy Armies and since 2016 i have collected miniatures for Blades of Khorne,  Maggotkin of Nurgle,  Flesh Eater Courts,  Greenskinz,  Slaves to Darkness,  Seraphon,  Beasts of Chaos,  Tzeentch ,  Legions of Nagash (Deathrattle, Soulblight and Deadwalkers).

The only Age of Sigmar exclusive army i have collected so far is Stormcasts, and that is mainly because they were in the first starter set that i bought.

I dislike most of the AoS brand new armies like Kharadron Overlords, Idoneth Deepkin and Ossiarch Bonerippers as the models don't appeal to me and feel weird even for the ultra high fantasy setting of AoS.

That said, i am happy for people that like them, and the diversity this brings to the hobby, but i am certain most of my friends (including myself) would not bother with Age of Sigmar, if the available armies to play where all in the theme of the AoS exclusive ones, and the old armies were phased out.

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I started with Age of Sigmar, to that end every model I own is an Age of Sigmar army, what you're essentially proposing is a date cut off of design that should be good and everything before shouldnt. In that case when the new edition of AoS hits then by your current logic all current AoS armies should become bad so only the next iteration of models is "good". 

GW have selected which models of the older ranges are "Age of Sigmar" and which are legacy, your proposed method is to resign any model produced prior to its launch as legacy and renegate tomes you dislike to the scrap heap. I maintain the strive should always be for a game that is balanced across the board not utilising an arbitrary cut off date as to models pre-cutoff must be bad and post cut off models should be far better because... reasons that have yet to be fleshed out.

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This is just a troll topic.

No need to fuel division.

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It's well documented the poor sales suffered by the new aos factions everything but stormcast eternal have sold poorly. Fyreslayers,kharaadron, idoneth have all been very slow sellers.ossiarchs have had some better success. So maybe yes they should receive worse rules.but they don't try winning a game with cities of sigmar it's entirely impossible against new armies. In a few years the old armies will clearly not exist in aos and will be resigned to the new warhammer old world game.but believe me there is a reason they are releasing pointy aelves and its because all the new elf and dwarf factions etc. Have had very very low sales .

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4 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

This is just a troll topic.

No need to fuel division.

This. 

This discussion is just a hidden platform created to let off some steam because of OPs frustration about the Idoneth Deepkin Battletome (a tome thats perfectly fine tbh)

Classic. 

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I wonder how all the deepkin players are gonna feel when they see daddy Teclis with his new perfect family 😞

Think it's only a matter of time for deepkin. Sorry to say 😢

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