Baron Klatz Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) In the mortal realms the Gods can speak to their people everyday though. That the setting has the Gods literally walking amongst their people and keeping the civilizations together is where the "real world linguistics" falls apart as a problem. Slight shifts do happen though as I said, the realms affect their natives to have accents in different manners while the ancient dead and Anvils of Heldenhammer do speakin more archaic forms. Edit: An important thing in warhammer religion is that what you worship both changes the god and changes you. Just by worshipping Sigmar multiple civilizations will find their people shaped by his power, just as Nagash shapes his people and Chaos extremely changes theirs. Edited January 17, 2020 by Baron Klatz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Baron Klatz said: In the mortal realms the Gods can speak to their people everyday though. By and large they don't. Most Chaos Tribes don't speak direct to their god(s) save through a prophet or similar gifted one. There's more than a few stories (in inferno) where Stormcast aren't just god warriors, but a myth (remember AoS is already at least a few hundred years on) from generations past. Dwarves even lost their god. I'd say the only god that speaks regularly to their people is the Everqueen and that's through their great link system. Even that has shown that whilst all are connected, her attention only focuses on limited areas and not the whole of everything. A bit like Nagash has control over all Death, but his will and focus are only within a limited scope. There are likely whole swathes of the Dead who never hear nor feel Nagash's control on them. Gods appear more common only because they are active in fiddling with the world and we, the readers, tend to read the epic stories that focus on the gods more so. Even Stormcast themselves consider just seeing or meeting Sigmar to be quite a major occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towercap Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said: In the mortal realms the Gods can speak to their people everyday though. That the setting has the Gods literally walking amongst their people and keeping the civilizations together is where the "real world linguistics" falls apart as a problem. Slight shifts do happen though as I said, the realms affect their natives to have accents in different manners while the ancient dead and Anvils of Heldenhammer do speakin more archaic forms. An important thing in warhammer religion is that what you worship both changes the god and changes you. Just by worshipping Sigmar multiple civilizations will find their people shaped by his power, just as Nagash shapes his people and Chaos extremely changes their. All sound like excuses for lazy writing to me! 🙂 I'd honestly much rather read at least one story about overcoming cultural (and language!) differences between denizens of two realms than another shallow pulp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I think we really need a clear storyline, instead of random unrelated stories One of the reason I really enjoyed Josh’s work is that there is clear timeline in them and hence enough space for character and environment development, eg, Manny. There are also some moments readers come across several familiar names or places, which greatly help to make setting valid and vivid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Klatz Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 This is true but the gods can be very discreet in how they communicate with their people. It doesn't have to be an actual conversation but just the act of worship brings a connection between realms that connect the followers with their God. (To such an extent that Stormcasts refused to interrupt a little girl's prayers to Nagash because it could open a rift). It's between that, how the gods can warp their people and just how they can personally view and see through them that can cause a more cosmic King Fisher effect that I mentioned. There's a good conversation in the comments here on how even a "dead God" of the duardin can be effected by his worshippers and vice-versa with even Nagash being susceptible. Just now, Towercap said: All sound like excuses for lazy writing to me! 🙂 I'd honestly much rather read at least one story about overcoming cultural (and language!) differences between denizens of two realms than another shallow pulp. To each their own. At least it can happen outside order like a Grot translating order tongue for a Ironjawz warboss or a Tzeentch beastmen acting as a mediator for the dark tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Yeah in some books there are definitely language barriers between each realm or even remote places, eg: Scourge of Fate. it just seems writers don’t want to spend too much time on these details, I personally am fine with that but would be happy if they notice this problem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPjr Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eevika said: GIve me a good destruction book from the perspective of a Troggoth, Grot or Ogor and ill read BL The troggoth short story in Malign Sorcery is one of my favuorite things ever whilst it could (not necessarily would) certainly be interesting I can totally see why most examples of 'destruction' stories, where the Orruk, Grot, etc is the protagonist are short stories. writing 50,000 words with an IronJawz hero would frankly be utterly tiring for any writer, if you think it's painful to stand opposite a Orruk player who takes great delight in bellowing nonsense every time they roll a dice imagine having to get inside a character like that's head for MONTHS AT A TIME, writing endless, interminable, paragraphs of "Wot iz this bollox, WAAAAGH!!!!" style speech. horrific. no wonder that in their titular book Andy Clark only gave about 3 lines of speech in total to any of the Gloomspite characters and of all the 'destruction' races the Grots are the ones that you could imagine having the most interesting conversations. it's tricky you go too far from the template/stereotype/archetype and you run the risk of just creating green skinned humans, you stick to close and you have painfully 1 dimensional characters whose defining personality trait is their 'race', which of course is at best lazy and at worst incredibly #problematic. totally understandable for writers that rather than wade through that you just use them in short stories, or as foils to other characters. it's a shame of course as done well it could not only open up some really interesting themes but also just give more of a sense of purpose to those factions beyond eat ******, smash stuff up, repeat. I've been toying, on and off, for the best part of 6 months now with a couple of short stories* that try to centre Grots and Orruks respectively and present them in a slightly different way and honestly it's hard, and that's already factoring in my own skill level! I think I've managed to get a better handle on my Grot protagonists but with the Orruk whilst I've ended up keeping him at the centre of the story, he's now become more of an enigmatic force that others revolve around rather than the main character. * So just in case anyone's truly interested in a couple of ever evolving, unlikely to be finished, and if they were almost certainly rubbish stories, here's a synopsis... Just some funny ideas I've been playing with, trying to come up with something unlike most the AoS fiction I've read Spoiler UNTITLED GROT STORY Life in the underdank is brutal, short and rarely ends well for any grot. So what if you just packed up and left? After rising through the ranks leading his Squig riding Boingrot Bounders into victory after victory Skraptain Razak has had enough. On one of their roaming missions he located a beautifully clammy cave system, that opens up onto a foetid fungus filled swamp, perfect for retiring to and setting themselves up as fungus farmers. Best of all the streams that leech out of the caves into the swamp filter through rich deposits of realm stone, imbuing their harvest with eldritch power and making them a prized crop for the Madcap Shamans back at the underdank. So after a year or so of essentially becoming artisanal organic hipster fungus farmers these grots are enjoying the best, chilled out life they can imagine (the tricky part here has been representing this but at the same time trying to figure out what a peaceful, happy and contented lifestyle for Grotz is). But then one day a long defunct realm gate opens up and an expeditionary force from one of the Cities of Sigmar comes through and start to build an encampment and scouting out the area. Obviously this is no good, so there's a minor guerrilla campaign as the Grots try to scare off the humans/duardin, but eventually engineers from the Ironweld Arsenal turn up and start building giant cog tractors and land reclamators with the aim of turning the swamp into clear land for houses etc etc. Cue Razak having to come out of retirement, pull on his big banana helmet and lead his squig riders into one last battle as unlikely eco-terrorists out to defend the swamp and their lifestyle, defeat the colonisers and restore balance to nature. UNTITLED ORRUK STORY Yann Toba is a famous aesthete, art dealer and impresario, renowned for discovering some of the greatest artists in the mortal realms. He counts numerous Azyrite noble families amongst his patrons and his exhibitions can make and break new artists and set the tastes of the rich and worthy. Whilst travelling between two cities with a caravan full of new artworks and sculptures they accidentally stray into an Orruk warband camp and are immediately set upon, whilst the orruks are defeated and he is saved, his baggage train full of precious artworks is totally destroyed. At first he's utterly dismayed and facing total ruin, but then as the dust storm clears and they pick through the Orruk camp he sees the crude artwork, rock sculptures and banners of the Orruks and instantly falls in love. Back in civilisation he organises the first exhibition of Orruk artwork, a show of brutal primitivism that is an instant sensation with the well heeled. "After this all is decadence" exclaims one perfumed Azyrite as he fingers a crude leering, rusted depiction of Gork. He sells all the artwork and there is a clamour for more. Realising he needs a recognised 'artist' to really drive the market he hires a crew of mercenaries and sets out to capture an Orruk "artist". After trailing one tribe for days and a vicious fight they kidnap a Weirdnob shaman, bring him back to a city in Aqshy and lock him away to create more art. Locked away the inscrutable Orruk regards the humans with a mixture of amusement and disdain, but finally he gets to work creating his 'art'. Toba organises a grand exhibition, to unveil his greatest find to date, a real life Orruk artist, surely to become the leading light of this new primitive art school. Again it's the hottest ticket in town with noble families fighting to get tickets. They enter and the shaman has painted the marble walls in crude daubs and glyphs and in the centre of the room stand a giant effigy of Gork/Mork made from boulders, scrap and the like. Whilst the great and good eat canapés drink wine and jaw jaw, the shaman paces around in his guardian built cage, chanting and dancing much to the amusement of the people, that amusement that is quickly cut short though as Waugh energy builds up, added to the native Aqshian temperament and fights start to break out, as the aggression mounts the rogue idol at the centre of the exhibition, as it obviously is, lumbers into life and wreaks havoc and devastation on everyone, before smashing their way out of the town with the shaman riding on top. Cue Yann Toba needing to leg it out of town with the great and good in hot pursuit. Edited January 17, 2020 by JPjr 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 hours ago, JPjr said: UNTITLED ORRUK STORY YES. I mean, both of these sound good but I would read the Orruk one in an instant. Regarding your issue with the shaman as more of a force than a character, do he and Yann ever actually interact and have conversations? Having Yann come to gradual realisation (and maybe appreciation?) of orruks via the shaman (not in time to stop the rampage, of course!) could help keep him as an actual character rather than just a narrative necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towercap Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 hours ago, JPjr said: * So just in case anyone's truly interested in a couple of ever evolving, unlikely to be finished, and if they were almost certainly rubbish stories, here's a synopsis... Just some funny ideas I've been playing with, trying to come up with something unlike most the AoS fiction I've read Reveal hidden contents UNTITLED GROT STORY Life in the underdank is brutal, short and rarely ends well for any grot. So what if you just packed up and left? After rising through the ranks leading his Squig riding Boingrot Bounders into victory after victory Skraptain Razak has had enough. On one of their roaming missions he located a beautifully clammy cave system, that opens up onto a foetid fungus filled swamp, perfect for retiring to and setting themselves up as fungus farmers. Best of all the streams that leech out of the caves into the swamp filter through rich deposits of realm stone, imbuing their harvest with eldritch power and making them a prized crop for the Madcap Shamans back at the underdank. So after a year or so of essentially becoming artisanal organic hipster fungus farmers these grots are enjoying the best, chilled out life they can imagine (the tricky part here has been representing this but at the same time trying to figure out what a peaceful, happy and contented lifestyle for Grotz is). But then one day a long defunct realm gate opens up and an expeditionary force from one of the Cities of Sigmar comes through and start to build an encampment and scouting out the area. Obviously this is no good, so there's a minor guerrilla campaign as the Grots try to scare off the humans/duardin, but eventually engineers from the Ironweld Arsenal turn up and start building giant cog tractors and land reclamators with the aim of turning the swamp into clear land for houses etc etc. Cue Razak having to come out of retirement, pull on his big banana helmet and lead his squig riders into one last battle as unlikely eco-terrorists out to defend the swamp and their lifestyle, defeat the colonisers and restore balance to nature. UNTITLED ORRUK STORY Yann Toba is a famous aesthete, art dealer and impresario, renowned for discovering some of the greatest artists in the mortal realms. He counts numerous Azyrite noble families amongst his patrons and his exhibitions can make and break new artists and set the tastes of the rich and worthy. Whilst travelling between two cities with a caravan full of new artworks and sculptures they accidentally stray into an Orruk warband camp and are immediately set upon, whilst the orruks are defeated and he is saved, his baggage train full of precious artworks is totally destroyed. At first he's utterly dismayed and facing total ruin, but then as the dust storm clears and they pick through the Orruk camp he sees the crude artwork, rock sculptures and banners of the Orruks and instantly falls in love. Back in civilisation he organises the first exhibition of Orruk artwork, a show of brutal primitivism that is an instant sensation with the well heeled. "After this all is decadence" exclaims one perfumed Azyrite as he fingers a crude leering, rusted depiction of Gork. He sells all the artwork and there is a clamour for more. Realising he needs a recognised 'artist' to really drive the market he hires a crew of mercenaries and sets out to capture an Orruk "artist". After trailing one tribe for days and a vicious fight they kidnap a Weirdnob shaman, bring him back to a city in Aqshy and lock him away to create more art. Locked away the inscrutable Orruk regards the humans with a mixture of amusement and disdain, but finally he gets to work creating his 'art'. Toba organises a grand exhibition, to unveil his greatest find to date, a real life Orruk artist, surely to become the leading light of this new primitive art school. Again it's the hottest ticket in town with noble families fighting to get tickets. They enter and the shaman has painted the marble walls in crude daubs and glyphs and in the centre of the room stand a giant effigy of Gork/Mork made from boulders, scrap and the like. Whilst the great and good eat canapés drink wine and jaw jaw, the shaman paces around in his guardian built cage, chanting and dancing much to the amusement of the people, that amusement that is quickly cut short though as Waugh energy builds up, added to the native Aqshian temperament and fights start to break out, as the aggression mounts the rogue idol at the centre of the exhibition, as it obviously is, lumbers into life and wreaks havoc and devastation on everyone, before smashing their way out of the town with the shaman riding on top. Cue Yann Toba needing to leg it out of town with the great and good in hot pursuit. Good stuff, I like the different angle on Orruk culture. Kudos! Spoiler I was pretty keen to see some Orruk stories that didn't focus on the Waaagh! myself. So I too made some fanfic a while back! Here's my stab at a short, interactive story about a boss who's deaf to the Waaagh! and believes it's all a rort: https://mendercap.github.io/twine-megaboss-morslag/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just a point - in the Ossiarch Podcast interview the guy being interviewed said that GW had been on a big Death Spree story wise within the game. He said that there was every chance that the focus was going to shift and that Destruction was very likely to get more attention moving forward. We've also seen that whilst Stormcast aren't going anywhere; GW and BL are far more keen to display other factions alongside. So I'm thinking we'll get a good few more Orruk, Goblin, Gutbuster and other stories emerging over time. Which I think is a good thing as its very clear that players and fans of a faction want stories and lore about their faction. Plus I think it also helps to keep the market and GW moving away from the idea of one poster-boy faction stealing all the attention. Ideally you want a more even spread - sure some armies will be more popular than others and some, like Stormcast, will get marketed as a starter force and thus will often have a higher up-pick than others. But if you can spread out attention over the whole brand that means more even sales and more even demands on production, stocking and support. It's basically good for GW as they aren't left sitting on "dead" armies with stock that refuses to sell; and its good for gamers too as it means more potential rules and model updates/releases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingmma Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 2:34 AM, TMS said: Like others I've got trouble getting into the ungroundedness of the mortal realms in the AoS novels. Contrast with WFB stories (Ulrika and Von Carstein trilogy for me, specifically) where I know the world they describe and I can follow along on a map as they travel between locations, with more bonus points for letting me imagine what my own TT characters are up to in the vicinity at the time of the novels' happenings. I hope that the realms will eventually create the same kind of familiarity for me as the old world has, although I'm biased with a long history of WFB behind me. The disparity has taught me that the fluff is more important to me than I thought it was. You'd like josh reynolds stuff, theres alot of deliberate interconnection 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malios Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Does the BL sales figures also include third parties such as Audible or Amazon? Or just direct sales from the website? Because I see the appeal in Audible: its monthly subscription is cheaper then buying direct from BL website. Edited January 18, 2020 by Malios 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypephoon Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) As is my opinion with a lot of things GW does, they really need to give the BL a subscription service. Let us give the $20 a month (au) or whatever and give us access to all the books and audiobooks or even a rotation of 10 or 20. (GW should be doing this with Codex/Battletomes as well). Honestly I just don't have the energy or time to get through the amount they put out, so I'm less willing to even give things a try that don't have absolutrly glowing reviews Edited January 19, 2020 by Hypephoon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 For me there was an interesting comparison between Dark Harvest, which had very grounded/believable settings and was easy to pick up, and the latest Gotrek book, which was a little fantastical for me. Grubby villages and straightforward roles for supporting characters vs a high fantasy setting and characters that I struggled to visualise. It’s a bit of a trap AoS can fall into from time to time and can make it hard for BL novels in the setting to shine. For me the limited edition release schedule doesn’t work, I’m just not going to drop that much on a book and some of the excitement has then worn off by the time the hardback comes out. I think the AoS side suffers from lack of big name characters for novel series and porting Gotrek over was ok but slightly flawed. I’m not sure what to suggest there as for me the kore interesting perspectives e.g from a normal human/free guild are a bit hobbled by the faction having been more or less abandoned in the game. I like to be inspired to pick up some figures after my reading and get painting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitorsz Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 11:44 PM, Malios said: Does the BL sales figures also include third parties such as Audible or Amazon? Or just direct sales from the website? Because I see the appeal in Audible: its monthly subscription is cheaper then buying direct from BL website. I'm late to this discussion but those are my thoughts exactly. I haven't bought a black library book for probably over a year since I've had an Audible subscription. Admittedly my reading time has been minimal, so that's where audio books while driving have been a great help. The last thing I read in a physical format was ADB's Night Lords trilogy and a half finished Fear to Tread (HH series). Since then, I've listened to about 8 or 9 HH audio books and I'm almost up to date with them. I think I'm about 4-5 away from being current. After that, I'll start jumping into AOS stuff I think. Keen to catch up with Gotrek. But in general, Black Library is expensive. They still price their stuff like every book is a large, hard cover collectors edition. And while that has it's place, it's not the majority of the market. The fact that some of their books only come out in the cheaper soft cover versions months later certainly doesn't help. It's like those dual box limited characters all over again. At the end of the day.... why would I pay $20+ for a physical book, when I can have someone read it to me for $16? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikout Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 It’s an interesting problem with black library. It is all essential tie in fiction and the is very little in that field that could be considered genuinely excellent. Part of the problem is the limitations put on writers. From what I understand a writer is usually given about 3 months to write a novel. Even fantasy writers who we would consider to be fairly prolific write about one book a year. I am sure that there is a stipulation in each brief that there must be a certain amount of fighting. I have certainly never read a warhammmer novel that didn’t have any fighting in it. That said, there are plenty of AOS books that I found very enjoyable. Soul wars was a big surprise as it took its time to build tension before the fighting started. While there’s plenty of talk about City of Secrets the follow up, Callis and Toll:The Silver shard is a much better book. I also strongly recommend anything written by Evan Dicken. He has a really interesting take on the mortal realms. I hope he is given the chance to do a full novel soon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 12:44 PM, Malios said: Does the BL sales figures also include third parties such as Audible or Amazon? Or just direct sales from the website? Because I see the appeal in Audible: its monthly subscription is cheaper then buying direct from BL website. 7 hours ago, Inquisitorsz said: I'm late to this discussion but those are my thoughts exactly. Yes it includes third parties - sort of. The value is distributor sales. This means it will include the amount of stock sold (at trade price) to the likes of Amazon and other publishers. We don't know how the GW store/BL relationship works, it's feasible GW stores have a trade price too, but equally possible that a sale through GW just goes straight into distributor sales at full RRP. Audible is dealt with on a royalty basis I believe, but I'd imagine it falls into the same figure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcthew Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 2:59 AM, Chikout said: It’s an interesting problem with black library. It is all essential tie in fiction and the is very little in that field that could be considered genuinely excellent. Part of the problem is the limitations put on writers. From what I understand a writer is usually given about 3 months to write a novel. Even fantasy writers who we would consider to be fairly prolific write about one book a year. I am sure that there is a stipulation in each brief that there must be a certain amount of fighting. I have certainly never read a warhammmer novel that didn’t have any fighting in it. That said, there are plenty of AOS books that I found very enjoyable. Soul wars was a big surprise as it took its time to build tension before the fighting started. While there’s plenty of talk about City of Secrets the follow up, Callis and Toll:The Silver shard is a much better book. I also strongly recommend anything written by Evan Dicken. He has a really interesting take on the mortal realms. I hope he is given the chance to do a full novel soon. I agree - I think the ingredients are all there, I just think the management of BL need to decide on what they want to achieve. There are fundamental problems within BL that stop it from being successful. Publishing fiction is very different to selling games and the models and rules we use with them. The editing and house style is poor and turgid, but only if you compare it to quality genre fiction published by other houses. As fan fiction, or tie-in fiction it's fair to middling; it does a job. It will appeal only to the game players, but not all AoS players. I've admitted before I struggle to get through BL books; it's like eating week-old meat-loaf: first bites are interesting enough but then... And it's not like I wont persevere either - it's why I'm adding my two pence here following another 'go' at one of the newest books (alas after a few pages I had to put it down again; page turners they are not!). That's not to say they couldn't be good even great. They have talented writers willing to work with BL, just get in experienced editors, and copy editors who are not just fans and who are not precious about the content, and edit the heck out of the books. You gotta kill your darlings to make good works. And GW have plenty of experience in that department, so that should come natural to them 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overread Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Thinking on it one thing that would make BL far more accessible to multiple readers would be a series or two that are more descriptive and set the scene better. Many of the stories rely on you having the GW webstore open just to glance at the half a line or two of text and the visual image of a mode to understand what it is within the setting. Whilst the story itself often runs on you being assumed to know what it is. This means that for current fans its easier to understand what's happening, but for a novice its a very hard thing to pick up. I think BL could increase their readerbase considerably and move outside of the niche of fans of the game, by having authors spend a bit more time world building within the stories. Don't just say it, show and describe it. They wouldn't have to do it for every story, but to do with a core of stories would be great. Gotrek type stories are good for this - a series that allows itself to follow and focus on multiple different groups and races. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novembermike Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I think at least part of it is that they've been slightly hostile towards consumers. I remember a few times (Spears of the Emperor at least) where I wanted to buy a book but I didn't have a realistic option to. I did pick up spears at the end of the day and it's a good book but there's probably other books that I haven't picked up because GW just doesn't make it easy for me to buy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminethMage Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 4:28 AM, HollowHills said: .... The court of the blind king took a possibly really cool concept and did nothing with it. Instead of traumatised elves doomed to survive by destroying the very life force of others we got generic fantasy snooty court drama. ... I just stumbled on this thread, and I totally agree with that. I'm a High Elf fan, and really liked what GW did in the setting with High Elves (and also Wood Elves). I also think the concept of the Idoneth is great. But if you read the novels, even the quite good ones like the Tyrion and Teclis books, they never do anything much with all the really cool concepts they have. Of course in the book, the author states how much Elves are alien to humans and how differently they act from humans, but the actual actions shown in the books are nothing like that. There is nothing alien at all about them, nothing mysterious or genuine different or interesting. I still quite liked the Tyrion and Teclis books, because the characters are pretty good, and there is quite some humor in them. But you could easily find better written fantasy books, if you are interested in such things. Even for someone who likes the HE. I couldn't really recommend these books to anyone who is not a Teclis or Tyrion fan or something close to that. I've read a few other BL books, but generally they are just not that good. If you like a faction or character, then they are fine for what they are, but they usually don't offer much for a more broader readership. So, I basically would never pick up a book about Stormcast Eternals, because I'm not interested in them in the first place, and doubt they are interesting enough for the stories/characters as such to pay something for them. Basically so far what interests me in the setting and the various factions can be satisfied with reading the battletomes and watching stuff on YouTube etc. That said, I'll have a look into a Lumineth book again, if they publish one and see if I like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veles Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Allow me to put my two cents in… My perspective comes from the point of a person who was reading BL for quite a long time (my first book was Space Marine by Ian Watson back in 90’s) and who has an extensive collection of entire HH series. I think BL in general is doing better in 40k than Fantasy. Occasionally one can stumble on a rare gem like Mike Lee’s Nagash trilogy (absolutely recommend this book to any TK or Death faction player), but overall the level of fantasy writing is quite poor. I would not put this totally on the authors though. I believe it is hard to write a book within the set parameters of company’s IP. Unfamiliarity of many authors with the game and extensive knowledge of back ground plays a big role in the quality of books. This last point is what makes ADB such a perfect writer for BL. Not only he is quite talented, but he also knows what he is writing about. That being said, even his books can be ruined by poorly chosen narrator (do not ever buy Emperor Spears audio version and just read the actual book). My second point is the price. I agree with above mentioned statement that $40 for a book is a bit pricey. Especially considering that it has rather limited appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughwyeth Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I imagine it's mostly down to a budget thing, or just the usual issues around writing for an IP. Most books for most IPs are known to be bad and that's because they don't pay that great and they have tight deadlines. If you let a BL writer have years to develop a series you'd probably get something really good- I don't doubt many of the writers could make something better with more time. Think of your favourite series- the writers had ages for the first book and usually reasonable time for subsequent books. Not the case with BL and it's not even BL's fault really- they know they won't sell hundreds of thousands of these so they can't afford long writing times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I'm really hesitant to buy any AOS novels because of how pulpy and reductive Warhammer novels can be. I had to stop reading an omnibus for some 40k war sector because by the 2nd story it was just...the same thing... and even though I've read cool Guard/Imperium stories, I found that too many of the books I was buying had the same feel and structure to them. I was heavily disappointed to see a lot of people reviewing Blind King in the same way: lukewarm Hamlet where the protag learns *nothing* and no real IDK culture background. I got Soul Wars for 1$ off humble bundle at least, so I'm hoping that's a good plot with nice characters. I do hear it's one of the better books/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirbeau Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) Will echo that I want more depth given to things I can use on the table - it's genre fiction so while I'm not expecting a Magic Mountain or Brothers Karamazov there is space to flesh things out more. They've done a good job in some areas on this (City of Secrets etc) but I don't think there's much fiction for quite a few factions/realms - would definitely get a Daughters book etc. They don't promote super well either, even a regular monthly slot on WHTV wouldn't be difficult to negotiate you'd think and might help them. Edited February 27, 2020 by Mirbeau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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