Evocators and cogs (slow down time)

[rogue_michael]

I've seen mention a couple of times of using Cogs with Evocators (in my case on Dracolines) to grant them an improved save and to let them cast Celestial Blades and Empower in the same turn.

But last night I was looking at the errata that allowed them to cast a spell from the Lore of Invigoration and I'm now concerned it doesn't work after all.

Slow Down Time

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The wizard manipulating the cogs can cast 1 additional spell in this hero phase.

The Lore of Invigoration errata

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Add the following under the title:  ‘Units of Evocators can know and attempt to cast one spell from the Lore of Invigoration. This is an exception to the rule that they cannot attempt to cast spells other than Empower. If a unit of Evocators attempts to cast a spell from the Lore of Invigoration, it cannot attempt to cast any other spells in that hero phase.’

I feel like the intention of that last sentence of the errata was probably to make clear that you don't get to cast the lore spell in addition to Empower normally, but as written it seems like it would get in the way of the cogs rule and leave you with nothing to cast with that second spell cast (although you could still use that second one for a dispel, I reckon).

My gaming group is kinda split on it, though.

[Lucur]

You can simply cast Empower first, before the restrictipn from having cast an invigoration spell kicks in.

Yes it's a sloppy attempt. As is the warscroll and the errata 😛

[rogue_michael]

11 minutes ago, Lucur said:

You can simply cast Empower first, before the restrictipn from having cast an invigoration spell kicks in.

Yes it's a sloppy attempt. As is the warscroll and the errata 😛

Huh, does that work?

I always thought the order didn't matter in cases like this: if A says you can't do B, but you've already done B, I thought that meant you in turn couldn't use A.

[Lucur]

I was mostly joking, but if you want to go RAW go all the way. Empower does not disallow casting another spell. Casting an Invigoration spell does not disallow having cast Empower before, it only disallows from casting. Not having casted.

If you wanna go RAI you can debate whichever way you wish. I don't think they intended Evocators to not take advantage of the cogs. I think they wanted to be clear in that Evocators can't inherently cast both spells and didn't think of cogs allowing them a second cast.

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, Lucur said:

You can simply cast Empower first, before the restrictipn from having cast an invigoration spell kicks in.

Yes it's a sloppy attempt. As is the warscroll and the errata 😛

RAW this is correct, and this is how we play it in my area as well.

59 minutes ago, rogue_michael said:

Huh, does that work?

I always thought the order didn't matter in cases like this: if A says you can't do B, but you've already done B, I thought that meant you in turn couldn't use A.

The order matters. You can't retroactively un-cast Empower if you cast Speed of Lightning later in the hero phase.

[XReN]

First I agree - order matters.

Second - you can at least cast Empower twice from this unit, just bring along some sequitors/evocators that will benefit from it.

[NauticalSoup]

1 hour ago, XReN said:

Second - you can at least cast Empower twice from this unit, just bring along some sequitors/evocators that will benefit from it.

Hmm is that actually right?

"It cannot attempt to cast any spells other than Empower, but any number of units of Evocators can attempt to cast Empower in the same hero phase."

"You cannot attempt to cast the same spell more than once in the same turn (even with a different wizard)."

A straight reading would suggest that this is not intended to negate the multiple casting rule for a single unit of Evocators, just that each unit can cast Empower. Otherwise it probably would have said Empower can be cast any number of times, not that any number of units can cast Empower. Although I suppose you could make the case that since you have already been allowed to cast Empower twice, the prohibition cannot continue to apply so you can therefore cast it any number times.

Evocator pseudo-wizard rules are such a kludge.