When will GW expand the smaller armies?

[Kyriakin]

13 minutes ago, #SteveJames said:

I would love to see the Fyreslayers get mini Magnadroths in units of three and maybe some kind of war machines. 

If I didn't care about the Command Point, I'd throw in some Kdaai Fireborn as mercenary Crypt Horrors, or something like that.

[Barkanaut]

I really dislike small armies. Man the gloomspite gits and some other armies are spoiled for options at this point. All the smaller armies need two more waves (at some point in AoS long existence) and I will be happy. There are only so many new factions I can ever see myself playing and I feel eventually GW is going to hit a point of diminishing returns with constantly adding small new factions. At some point people will have all the armies they will want. Heck I already feel that way now. 

I can't see myself collecting anything else other than KO, IDK, and GG. 

[#SteveJames]

12 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

I can't see myself collecting anything else other than KO, IDK, and GG. 

I feel like that some times then GW bring out a new release a d suddenly I'm wanting to do a new army. 

Their release schedule at the moment is mad and there's plenty of option for them to explore creatively. 

Would definitely like new factions but seeing old ones expanded would be good too. 

[#SteveJames]

48 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

If I didn't care about the Command Point, I'd throw in some Kdaai Fireborn as mercenary Crypt Horrors, or something like that.

Loads of scope for awesome conversions there I'm interested to see what people come up with Cities of Sigmar mixed lists. 

Could do some very cool themed stuff but still have an compeative edge. 

[Elmir]

Thing is, when is an army a "small army"?

They have already started expanding them... But only with single heroes so far. 

The other thing is: there seem to be as many "small armies" these days as there are large armies (that are mostly based on old WHFB ranges). I think a possible future is to fuse some of these armies together again with ranges that makes sense, like: 

Great waaaagh
Legion of Grief
Free cities with KO, Sylvaneth,...

 

[Barkanaut]

3 minutes ago, Elmir said:

Thing is, when is an army a "small army"?

They have already started expanding them... But only with single heroes so far. 

The other thing is: there seem to be as many "small armies" these days as there are large armies (that are mostly based on old WHFB ranges). I think a possible future is to fuse some of these armies together again with ranges that makes sense, like: 

Great waaaagh
Legion of Grief
Free cities with KO, Sylvaneth,...

 

No to souping new armies they don't fit at all. I am still mad they did it to IJ instead of giving them a big update. 

[Elmir]

9 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

No to souping new armies they don't fit at all. I am still mad they did it to IJ instead of giving them a big update. 

They didn't just soup them up though. They gave them a new allegiance (and I couldn't disagree with you more that orcs + orcs don't fit at all, but that's a different conversation) AND kept all their previous allegiances intact. IMO that's the most elegant solution they could have gone for to offer more model variation to players. 

You know, apart from whipping the backs of the model designers to work even harder than they already are... The release schedule (also for models) is pretty insane these days. 

[Barkanaut]

Other than having green skin and being orcs  the two model ranges visually look about as compatible as cave man paintings and modern art. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Barkanaut

[Elmir]

I seem to recall ancient days when some of these heavily armoured orcs and these very same savage orcs were a single army (with even more variation in models if you can imagine that!!). If only somebody imparted the designers on your wisdom back then!

Also, following the same god seems like there's reason enough to sometimes fight together. 

So I'm afraid I don't quite agree with you on that one either. But that's ok... The design team made a book that caters to both people who like that solution (to having very limited model choice) AND to people who like to keep those model ranges apart. 

I play mostly death and I love the fact that there are more combo options than ever for me to make different armies, even if it means fielding a lot of "old models" to make them. 

[novakai]

49 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

No to souping new armies they don't fit at all. I am still mad they did it to IJ instead of giving them a big update. 

yeah trying to start or do a Big Waagh army is both visually jarring and uninspiring in many aspect despite having ok rules. Really it feel like their still need to be more Orc models in the range for it feel like it cohesive. 

playing the separate army it more or less playing the army before but having the same problem I had with them before the tome.
 

[kenshin620]

59 minutes ago, novakai said:

Really it feel like their still need to be more Orc models in the range for it feel like it cohesive.
 

Got you covered!

 

 

 

 

[novakai]

11 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Got you covered!

 

 

 

 

and what?

their warscrolls are still janky and are not meant to be used

and they are OOP and suspects to being squatted.

Edited December 27, 2019 by novakai

[kenshin620]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

and what?

their warscrolls are still janky and are not meant to be used

and they are OOP and suspects to being squatted.

It was meant to be a sarcastic reply. 😜

[novakai]

Just now, kenshin620 said:

It was meant to be a sarcastic reply. 😜

yeah I though I felt smugness from the comment but I played nice and didn't notice, My Bad

[kenshin620]

5 minutes ago, novakai said:

yeah I though I felt smugness from the comment but I played nice and didn't notice, My Bad

But in all seriousness I don't see why they had to get rid of the GS line. Yes they're old (except the boar boyz) and yes one can argue "they're redundant ruleswise", but I think some tweaks and they could have been an effective "mass model" choice for warclans (especially to ramp up waaagh points).

 

Meanwhile skaven have multiple metal/resin model UNITS, not even one off models but entire units! Who the heck in their right mind is buying 20+ official gutter runner models!

[Carnelian]

8 hours ago, wayniac said:

 it appears like there isn't communication between the model designers and the game designers.

If you listen to the gw podcasts it gives more insight to this. 

Sounds like there are times when there's loads of communication throughout the process  e.g. When an entirely new faction is released and also times when there is not much communication and the rules designer is presented with a bunch of new models e.g. Shadespire 

[Chumphammer]

DOK could do with some more options. We still havent had the temple Khelt Nar from the book turn up yet, and their are supposed to be anti chaos fighters, so maybe something might come up in 2020

[Edritch]

1 hour ago, Carnelian said:

it appears like there isn't communication between the model designers and the game designers.

It's a really bad problem GW has. You can tell there is a huge disconnect when you listen to playtesters talk about their experiences. Often times they're given the rules and told the base size + rough height of the models. They playtest not having seen any models, just having heard about them secondhand.

The rules are written before the models are even in the prototyping phase..

You can hear about it in the most recent episode of Garagehammer (ep 231) where Alex describes how jarring it was to see the Ossiarch Bonereaper models after having playtested them (they don't like the models, haha).

[Kirjava13]

I don't mean to imply that I know better than GW head honchos, because I cannot, obviously. And clearly what they have been doing is working for them- y'know rising stock prices, record profit, etc. So... I can imagine they wouldn't be super receptive to being told what they should or shouldn't do. 

That said, I just can't help but wonder if things would be different if someone, anyone was given central control of the design team. If instead of, "y'know what guys, just run wild", we had, "ok team, the Lizardmen range needs an update so I want to see everyone's maddest ideas on what an Aztec dinosaur is". I get the impression that the miniature designers have free reign, regardless of what the needs of the actual miniature ranges might be. And that would be grand if they weren't the premium plastic miniature company.

Not 100% sure where I started this post or where I ended it.  Basically GW needs to update their effin Skaven line.

[Carnelian]

5 hours ago, Edritch said:

It's a really bad problem GW has. You can tell there is a huge disconnect when you listen to playtesters talk about their experiences. Often times they're given the rules and told the base size + rough height of the models. They playtest not having seen any models, just having heard about them secondhand.

The rules are written before the models are even in the prototyping phase..

You can hear about it in the most recent episode of Garagehammer (ep 231) where Alex describes how jarring it was to see the Ossiarch Bonereaper models after having playtested them (they don't like the models, haha).

Firstly that quote was  not me but me quoting someone else!

Secondly I don't think that it is correct to say the rules are written before the models are seen. 

Sure the play testers may not get to see the models but the rules designers will have. If you listen to the stormcast episodes they make it very clear that the rules follow the miniatures in almost every case. 

Its entirely natural and normal that playtesters would only get the mechanical information and not see the models themselves. I can't see why they would do it any other way. 

[Aeryenn]

I think some of you have unrealistic expectations, Like anticipating GW to release a second wave of Kharadrons or Ironjawz in 2020 just when they've received (or even not) a new battletome. That would be really negative trend to reduce battletomes' lifespan to under 1 year. 3 years seem like a good compromise between imposed expenditure and being up to meta (with some FAQs and GHB in between).

They clearly wanted to bring all the factions to 2.0 and I don't expect they will take off right off the bat with first faction at hand to start some 3.0 battletome with new mechanics. Maybe some 2.0 factions that have imperfect rules will see an update like Nighthaunt or IDK.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Aryann

[EccentricCircle]

11 hours ago, Carnelian said:

If you listen to the gw podcasts it gives more insight to this. 

Sounds like there are times when there's loads of communication throughout the process  e.g. When an entirely new faction is released and also times when there is not much communication and the rules designer is presented with a bunch of new models e.g. Shadespire 

Note that in the case of shadespire they weren't given completed models and told to make a game, rather they got playing with study models which weren't intended for release and thought it would be cool to do something with them, and find a way to release them as part of a side game.

[Chikout]

There is a fair bit of misinformation in this thread. The process is 

1 minis are designed by the studio.

2- work on rules, background, art and painting begins sometimes overlapping with 1 slightly. 

This is done using resin masters of minis or proxies as final plastic minis have not been manufactured yet. 

2b production of miniatures begins.

2c internal playtesting is done. 

2d external playtesting is done. From what I understand this is always done using proxies. 

3 production on the books begins. 

There is sometimes a bit of overlap between the stages but I have never heard of 2 happening before 1.

The one thing that does happen is that rules sometimes inspire a second wave of minis. 

As for AOS we have had some kind of miniature release for every faction except for Seraphon and Cities of Sigmar. Presumably something is on the way for Seraphon. 

I stand by my statement that we will see 10 or so totally new AOS factions within the next ten years. AOS is currently at 22 books including Tzeentch, Ko and Seraphon. 

40k is at 36 and they're not done yet. 

If what White fang is saying about 4 brand new factions this year that doesn't leave much room for old factions to get a second wave. 

As for the factions which would be considered small we have Fec, Dok, Ko, Fyreslayers, and IDK. 

I could see Dok getting an update in 2021 but probably not earlier than that especially with the rumours of other Aelves on the way. 

 

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, Aryann said:

I think some of you have unrealistic expectations, Like anticipating GW to release a second wave of Kharadrons or Ironjawz in 2020 just when they've received (or even not) a new battletome. That would be really negative trend to reduce battletomes' lifespan to under 1 year. 3 years seem like a good compromise between imposed expenditure and being up to meta (with some FAQs and GHB in between).

They clearly wanted to bring all the factions to 2.0 and I don't expect they will take off right off the bat with first faction at hand to start some 3.0 battletome with new mechanics. Maybe some 2.0 factions that have imperfect rules will see an update like Nighthaunt or IDK.

If they want to keep selling mini's, expanding the ranges with small amounts of sets does make a lot of sense.

[Aeryenn]

49 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

If they want to keep selling mini's, expanding the ranges with small amounts of sets does make a lot of sense.

Of course it does but not at this pace (regarding battletomes). End of 2020 or 2021 is the fastest I can think of an update to existing 2.0 factions. In my opinion there are factions that already should have had 2nd waves but got just a battletome instead.