Reasonable Commissar Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Greetings, fellow followers of the dark gods, I am having a hard time justifying ever taking the War Cry Cultists (any flavor) in a competitive AoS game when Marauders just offer so much more. One of the most obvious reason is that Marauders do have Mark of Chaos (MoC) which enable them to benefit from variety of buff that is available to a Slaves of Darkness (StD) army, while cultists do not have that key words and have no buff character unique to them to compensate. Just for example, Marauders near Undivided heroes ignore battle shock and have 6+ save after save (FNP 6+). Second reason is damage out put. Each Marauder (axe and shield) pumps out 2 attacks, in large unit (which is what you should take) that is 2 attacks hit on 3+, wound on 4+, -1 rend. While the only cultist unit remotely close is Iron Golem with their 1 melee attack, 1 range attack. All other flavors of cultists just do less than 2 average attack per model, most doing just 1, when marauders can reliably do 2 above average attacks. Third reason is the utility. While each cultists unit have their own unique rule, Marauders offers -1 bravery banner, minimum 8‘’ charge, 5+ save with shield. That 8'' minimum charge range is just nuts, while the -1 bravery is icing on the cake. These are the main reasons I believe rules wise Marauders are just leagues better than cultists. The only cultists I can think of any use is Iron Golem, with their 4+ save and reroll save when not moving and 8 bravery, for camping objectives. I really like all the cultists models, and hate the decade old Marauders, but I currently just cannot find any reason rule wise to use cultists. My current plan is just to run a Ravager horde with 40 Spire Tyrants count as Marauders and summoning units of free Iron Golem and other cultists for distraction and objective grabbing. Want to hear what you guys think, did I miss anything nice about the cultists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfullyvannila Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) Minimum unit of Splintered Fang for Cabalists sacrifice since they get a unit back every turn. I’ll point out though, that in a ravagers list you probably shouldn’t rely on having your summons in range for a mark, and that Marauders are less effective at 10 units than at 20. Edited December 17, 2019 by Sinfullyvannila 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Untamed beasts, cypher lords and unmade all do something unique and different for a slaves army. Splintered fang are nice for sacrificing in cabalists. Otherwise... you're right - marauders are miles better for marginally more points, and are battleline. Iron golems are nice objective holders, but tough units rerolling saves aren't exactly tough to find in slaves to darkness. They're better allies than they are in slaves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrix Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/16/2019 at 8:26 PM, decker_cky said: Iron golems are nice objective holders, but tough units rerolling saves aren't exactly tough to find in slaves to darkness. They're better allies than they are in slaves. Personally I rate Iron Golems pretty high for this since they don't require Sorcerer Lord support for rerolls or unit size/points issues (10 chaos warriors being 200 points). The Ogre in the unit having 3 wounds also helps reduce battleshock vunerability the first time they're hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 I think you could have a conversation about whether there are benefits you get or options you acquire from using cultists Vs marauders, but tbh in my opinion it's a question of god-awful models Vs not god-awful models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 Could always run cultists as Marauders. If you want the "classic" look of marauders, I think Blood Reavers+Untamed Beasts+ (eventual) Spire Tyrants will make modern Marauders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 On 12/17/2019 at 2:12 AM, Reasonable Commissar said: Second reason is damage out put. Each Marauder (axe and shield) pumps out 2 attacks, in large unit (which is what you should take) that is 2 attacks hit on 3+, wound on 4+, -1 rend. While the only cultist unit remotely close is Iron Golem with their 1 melee attack, 1 range attack. All other flavors of cultists just do less than 2 average attack per model, most doing just 1, when marauders can reliably do 2 above average attacks. Just wondering, but from what exactly are the marauders gaining an extra rend and a hit role of 3+?? sure you could buff their to wound by one with the mark of khorne, but rend and an extra to hit?, not sure where they get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said: Just wondering, but from what exactly are the marauders gaining an extra rend and a hit role of 3+?? sure you could buff their to wound by one with the mark of khorne, but rend and an extra to hit?, not sure where they get that. Barbarian Horde ability: "Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by this unit while it has at least 10 models. In addition, improve the Rend characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons by 1 while it has at least 20 models." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 1 hour ago, kenshin620 said: Barbarian Horde ability: "Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by this unit while it has at least 10 models. In addition, improve the Rend characteristic of this unit’s melee weapons by 1 while it has at least 20 models." Interesting. that really does make them a lot more viable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iradekhorne Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) Not only that, the 8+ charge is just anyoning to summon it at 9" of the enemy, or teleport it... But np for me, i only have the iron golems andthe untammed, but i have 160 marauders, 40 of each god :p. More money save for me xD. Anyway, is the same for chaos warriors, how i can play it at 100 points, having the marauders.... In GH2020 we need the chaos warriors cheaper or similar than the ardboyz, and the warcry bands at 50-60 points. The marauders are ok for his price i think, the real problem are the knights, chaos warriors and warcry bands points. It need a down drop, for the internal point balance of slaves to darkness. If i can put 2 warcry bands por 120 points, maybie i use them as objective holders or a meat wall, but at 70... for 10 pointsmore than double warband i have 20 marauders.... Edited December 26, 2019 by Iradekhorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/26/2019 at 11:34 AM, Iradekhorne said: Anyway, is the same for chaos warriors, how i can play it at 100 points, having the marauders.... In GH2020 we need the chaos warriors cheaper or similar than the ardboyz, and the warcry bands at 50-60 points. The marauders are ok for his price i think, the real problem are the knights, chaos warriors and warcry bands points. It need a down drop, for the internal point balance of slaves to darkness. Agreed. I think a lot of issues in the slaves book come down to pricing, so can be corrected in a future GHB. Marauders are in the right range (though the charge distance mechanic on a summonable/teleportable unit will always be problematic), and the book generally has great support and tools, but I'd say all of warriors, chosen, cultists, knights, varanguard and both chariots could stand to get a points reduction to some degree. Most unfortunate is that, unless I'm missing something, the standout unit from the Slaves book is the second oldest remaining plastic unit in the Age of Sigmar range (marauders are 2002, night runners are 1999). Beastmen chariot, from 1998, seems to be the oldest kit overall (the riders were updated in 2003), including the boars from the 1997 boar boy kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 most of slaves feels balanced around having reroll hits and wounds from a sorc lord and a chaos lord giving double attack. This is on the back of units having 4+ saves. They also have access to stoping movement and forcing units to attack last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iradekhorne Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I think not, the chaos warriors and chariot seems 2 much expensive for me. I prefer the chosen than the chaos warriors for 40 points more. And the chariots yes they are fast and do lortal wounds, but after that they die, and they havent suficient punch. You can put 2 chaos chariots, but thats it 240 points, and one unit of chaos knights do much more damage for less price. Thats te only two price issues on the book. All the other seems ok for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Minimum size splintered fang outperform minimum size marauders when brought on as ravager summons outside of hero bubbles. And as stated iron golums hold better. The situations where it's logical to take them are too situational. Only reason way they make sense is if you're a millionaire running a ravager list. Then having them all as summon options makes sense for the niche moments they're better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 2:52 PM, Rors said: Minimum size splintered fang outperform minimum size marauders when brought on as ravager summons outside of hero bubbles. I'm sure you have some numbers upon which you base this decision, but I disagree...marauders can reliably charge off the summon unlike any of the cultists. Being able to aggressively summon and charge is a huge advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Yeah you're right they're more reliable to get a charge off. But 10 marauders don't really do anything on the charge. Neither do the cultists for that matter I suppose.. I guess it comes down to style. I didn't really think about going for aggressive summon and charge strategies, seemed better as objective holders or harassers. Getting the charge on the turn you summon is probably more important than the ever so slightly higher damage output. There goes the extremely limited justification haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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