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Knights ... Smashy or Pokey?


CarkFish

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Also, if you're running Slaanesh, the lances have a neat prospect to explode into extra attacks, but, so do the swords with five extra attacks per unit. It's really whatever you have running. If you can buff the to hit on the lances while keeping Slaanesh, then it's pretty amazing...not sure how I'd do that, though.

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On 12/16/2019 at 8:41 AM, Smooth criminal said:

Lances are about 30% better on the charge and 30% worse without a charge.

It's worse than that for lances actually.

On the charge, before accounting for rend, they do the same damage on average, because they're 4+/3+ rather than 3+/3+.

Off the charge, lances have no rend, less attacks, and a worse to hit value. Lance off the charge average half the damage of ensorcelled weapon, not accounting for Ensorcelled weapons having rend -1 and Lances having none.

Lances are only worth taking if you're giving the unit buffs, especially bonus attacks, and getting charges consistently.

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18 minutes ago, Korazell said:

Just got my book, so, forgive me for my lack of knowledge, how would you give them extra attacks without the endless spell?

 

 

Well Chaos lord can make them fight a second time, bloodsecrator ally would give them extra attacks if they have mark of khorne.

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15 hours ago, Asamu said:

On the charge, before accounting for rend, they do the same damage on average, because they're 4+/3+ rather than 3+/3+

Lances against a 4+ save will do 25% more damage than enrolled weapons on the charges

Against same target enscrolled weapons will do almost 3x more damage off the charge. 

 

The same could be said for other really good units such as morrsarr guard vs akelian guard.

 

A bigger burst is worth more in my opinion.  When you are looking at knights they are fast and thus will likely get to pick Thier target if screened right. From  giving them rerolls (a stronger buff on lances than enscrolled weapons) is an easy boost in damage. 

 

Where knights shine is that they are also kind of tanky so they can survive an enemy fighting back between double activations with chaos Lord command ability. Even more with rerolling saves. 

 

There are better anvil/screen units than chaos knights.  Untamed beast and iron golems come to mind. 

 

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Several StD players on TGA are saying the Chaos Warriors warscroll is written so that they can deploy mixed units. As most of the rank and file warscrolls in the new tome are cut and pasted to say the same thing, ie: "a unit of x has any number of models, each armed with ensorcled swords, lances, scissors, paper, stone etc" is anyone else here using mixed chaos Knight units, thus both smashey and pokey?

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19 hours ago, Coolwood said:

It make sense and explains why the max unit discounts have been removed 

 

This is more explained by the fact that a new guy wrote the book to my understanding and didn't do discounts and wasn't fussed with mixing weapons, which is why marauders are also listed this way. 

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5 hours ago, mmimzie said:

This is more explained by the fact that a new guy wrote the book to my understanding and didn't do discounts and wasn't fussed with mixing weapons, which is why marauders are also listed this way. 

Even GW can’t be that inept and let that happen. Don’t believe that somehow 

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On 12/23/2019 at 11:21 PM, mmimzie said:

Not inept, I'm more just saying maybe the no discounts and open weapon options is more this new writer's style.

 

 

But it’s so the opposite of the style of the last few books. Reducing different weapon profiles, less time consuming rules, Close to all battleline Units have a horde discount. 
might not be inept but it’s a very strange turn of strategy. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

My very limited experience has me strongly leaning toward ensorcelled weapons.  It seems a pretty narrow band of enemy units that lances smash through that ensorcelled weapons also wouldn't.  Plus, lances require a charge where ensorcelled weapons work the same no matter what.   In the few games I have played, my groups of ten knights usually get stuck in combat regardless of weapon.  So far, I have been pretty good at getting about seven on a single target too.  The only thing I have seen lances do better is Distraction Carnifex my (also new players) opponents better than my ensorcelled  weapons ones. 

I haven't played that many games, and I haven't done the math though.

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