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Hey guys,

I'm looking for advice on what prayers you think would be best for an Idolator Lord (Fiery Orator) and Idolator Warshrine with the additional prayer enhancement.   I was thinking of giving the Lord both Heal and Curse since he can double prayer per turn.  The Warshrine would then get Curse and Guidance.  Do you think that would be a good distribution of universal prayers on top of their warscroll ones?  Any suggestions?  The army around them would be typical - 10 Knights, 10 Warriors, 30 Marauders, 2 chariots and plenty of hero Support (CL on Karkadrak, CL on foot, Daemon Prince and Sorcerer).

Edited by Archion89
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As mentioned a little while back, I've been playing more Slaves to Darkness recently for a Path to Glory game. My theme has been to start with just spawn, cultists, and marauders lead by a sorcerer and lord. 

I'm using spire tyrants currently and they're... well they're terrible. But it got me thinking, besides the Iron Golems, I don't think the cultists have a proper design philosophy that isn't just totally overshadowed by 10 marauders. 

On one hand, the cultists are usually written like Underworld's warbands where the rules are there for fluff but they're never meant to see a matched play game. On the other hand, there's a lot in the book from other warscrolls and allegiance abilities that supports Cultists. 

It seems like they've gone half and half on whether they're meant to be a fluffy release that's only for narrative games, or a key component of the book, and it's left the Cultists feeling like a massive letdown and filler in the book, while also making certain parts of the book feel pointless because the parts they support are useless (e.g. besides Iron Golems in a niche situation, why would you ever summon cultists over marauders with Ravagers?).

Anyone got any more clarity on the purpose of cultists in this book? 

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I feel cultist are a lot like underworld warbands where they're not really for aos even if rules exist. The rules are there to entice buyers who are on the fence and give them extra incentive to buy, or at the very least try the other game.

With the most recent white dwarf update the cultist make more sense if you just want a cheap unit to fill out you're battleline, as if S2D didn't already have enuff battleline units. Otherwise the update actually does more for mono god armies who can now more effectively use them but this still begs the question, for what?

GW seems intent on making these units a core part of S2D tho, which makes me wonder if they may receive future waracroll rewrites giving them an actual usefulness.

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15 hours ago, Archion89 said:

Hey guys,

I'm looking for advice on what prayers you think would be best for an Idolator Lord (Fiery Orator) and Idolator Warshrine with the additional prayer enhancement.   I was thinking of giving the Lord both Heal and Curse since he can double prayer per turn.  The Warshrine would then get Curse and Guidance.  Do you think that would be a good distribution of universal prayers on top of their warscroll ones?  Any suggestions?  The army around them would be typical - 10 Knights, 10 Warriors, 30 Marauders, 2 chariots and plenty of hero Support (CL on Karkadrak, CL on foot, Daemon Prince and Sorcerer).

I've been using the Warshrine as my general lately with Fiery Orator, for double Favour of Chaos... Along with Daemonic Power from a sorcerer that's all the rerolls all the time!😜

Not gone double prayer enhancement yet. For the regular prayers I normally give heal to the shrine and curse to the chariot (so I can double Favour and curse in the same turn).

 

EDIT - Although now I've written it out, I think I may have been an inadvertent  massive cheat...
Warshrines in Idolators gain the Leader battlefield role, but not the Hero Keyword.  Booo!

Edited by AdamR
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3 hours ago, AdamR said:

I've been using the Warshrine as my general lately with Fiery Orator, for double Favour of Chaos... Along with Daemonic Power from a sorcerer that's all the rerolls all the time!😜

Not gone double prayer enhancement yet. For the regular prayers I normally give heal to the shrine and curse to the chariot (so I can double Favour and curse in the same turn).

 

EDIT - Although now I've written it out, I think I may have been an inadvertent  massive cheat...
Warshrines in Idolators gain the Leader battlefield role, but not the Hero Keyword.  Booo!

Absolutely illegal but would be insane!

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On 9/27/2021 at 5:46 PM, ChaosUndivided said:

I feel cultist are a lot like underworld warbands where they're not really for aos even if rules exist. The rules are there to entice buyers who are on the fence and give them extra incentive to buy, or at the very least try the other game.

With the most recent white dwarf update the cultist make more sense if you just want a cheap unit to fill out you're battleline, as if S2D didn't already have enuff battleline units. Otherwise the update actually does more for mono god armies who can now more effectively use them but this still begs the question, for what?

GW seems intent on making these units a core part of S2D tho, which makes me wonder if they may receive future waracroll rewrites giving them an actual usefulness.

 

I agree, people already stay away from them because of their rule clutter.

20 attacking rules and weapons mixed with 8 defense rules and abilities all in one unit.

Not to mention that they are not looking like the rest of the army.

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Anyone tried a Despoilers army at all in 3.0 yet?  I was wondering how good their terrain LOS blocking thing would work vs all the wizardry and shooting lately.  I kinda like the idea of a whole bunch of daemon princes, and like 3 or 4 chariots for battleline, plus whatever random interesting units fit.  Is there a particular Mark that would benefit such an army over others?  I have 1 Khorne Daemon Prince, but 2 more pairs of old metal wings and some weapon arms begging to become more Princes.

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@Lord Krungharr Despoilers worked well in 2.0 against shooting and line of sight magic so no reason why it still wouldnt be effective. Now that Daemon Princes have access to Finest Hour and Heroic Recovery they are tankier than ever.

Nurgle mark on the general is good for the -1 to shooting for those units that can be seen while Tzeentch mark helps protect against magic. Always hard to not go khorne for the halving run & charges however if you're trying to counter shooting/magic meta then keeping your opponent out of combat might not be as important. 

Paragon of Ruin command trait works great with chariots and Ive sometimes allied in a Bloodsecrator to really amp up a chariot's alpha strike.

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Ooh yeah, I forgot StDs can ally in any Marked unit!  That could help with a variety pack of Marks then.  Maybe like a Fatemaster for some Tzeentch guys, etc.  Definitely on my army to-collect list; keeping my eyes peeled for some of those old metal chariots too to mix up the models for the different Marks.

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12 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Ooh yeah, I forgot StDs can ally in any Marked unit!  That could help with a variety pack of Marks then.  Maybe like a Fatemaster for some Tzeentch guys, etc.  Definitely on my army to-collect list; keeping my eyes peeled for some of those old metal chariots too to mix up the models for the different Marks.

Careful about allying in non-StD heroes/units - because they lack the StD keywords, they will not generate/benefit from auras, and can't be buffed by many StD abilities/spells.  For example, you cannot Mask of Darkness Sigvald behind enemy lines; Skull Reapers will not benefit from aura of Khorne; etc. 

The asymmetry is a pet-peeve around here: marked StD units will perform well when playing God specific factions, but the converse is less true.  

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So I have been working on the lore of my army during the down time at work and I am really interested in using it to explore the varied faiths of chaos unified into an undivided force. However, in doing so I am fascinated in using some of the subfactions as Godspecific worshipers. So my question from a purely thematic level how would you divide the marks between Ravagers, Cabalists, Despoilers and Idolators?

If I ever get Archaon (or a decent proxy) or Varanguard, I would use Host of the Everchosen or Knights of the Empty Throne as Undivided. Currently I am using Ravagers as my main Undivided list but I will make an alternate list for a marked list. 

I am leaning towards: 
Ravagers - Khorne
Idolators - Slaanesh
Cabalists - Tzeentch
Despoilers - Nurgle

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3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

So I have been working on the lore of my army during the down time at work and I am really interested in using it to explore the varied faiths of chaos unified into an undivided force. However, in doing so I am fascinated in using some of the subfactions as Godspecific worshipers. So my question from a purely thematic level how would you divide the marks between Ravagers, Cabalists, Despoilers and Idolators?

If I ever get Archaon (or a decent proxy) or Varanguard, I would use Host of the Everchosen or Knights of the Empty Throne as Undivided. Currently I am using Ravagers as my main Undivided list but I will make an alternate list for a marked list. 

I am leaning towards: 
Ravagers - Khorne
Idolators - Slaanesh
Cabalists - Tzeentch
Despoilers - Nurgle

Idolators and Khorne is a good fit as the priests fulfil the role of wizards… Especially at lower points with limited hero slots

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33 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

A Khorne Ravager Karkadrak with Eternal Vendetta and the amulet of destiny slaughtered 1k points of Stormcast the other day xD 

I used to love putting the artefact that you could pick a weapon and give it -3 rend, this it was a Chamon choice, on his axe. He used to absolutely ruin everything 😛

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Looking into a competitive Archaon and Belakor tag team list. Points are tight obviously and trying to figure out mostly who should support them. In this one the sorcerer is benched in favor of a chaos lord with arcane tome, demon prince of khorne and warshrine. It results in less save stacking, but more offensive potential. Any thoughts?

 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Archaon the Everchosen (830)*
- Spell: Call to Glory
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord (120)*
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Warshrine (185)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91
Drops: 2

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3 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Looking into a competitive Archaon and Belakor tag team list. Points are tight obviously and trying to figure out mostly who should support them. In this one the sorcerer is benched in favor of a chaos lord with arcane tome, demon prince of khorne and warshrine. It results in less save stacking, but more offensive potential. Any thoughts?

 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Despoilers
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Archaon the Everchosen (830)*
- Spell: Call to Glory
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360)
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- General
- Axe
- Command Trait: Paragon of Ruin
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Lord (120)*
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
10 x Chaos Marauders (90)*
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Warshrine (185)*
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91
Drops: 2

A few thoughts:
1-Even though you loose the command trait, I would consider picking Be'lakor as the general. He would benefit a lot from the 5+ Ward for being a daemon prince general (he is quite weak to mortal wounds and he gives a victory point to opponent if he dies).
2-Since Mask of Darkness is so unreliable, I would consider giving the Khorne Daemon Prince the Amulet of Destiny (if he is not the general) or the DoomBringer blade (which is quite good in the Monster Hero meta) instead of using the artefact slot for arcane tome.
3-With the latest white dwarf update for cultists battleline, instead of the 30 marauders, I could see an argument for:
10xUntamed Beasts
10xUntamed Beasts
10xIron Golems
10xIron Golems
new list total: 1995/2000

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4 hours ago, Bibob45 said:

A few thoughts:
1-Even though you loose the command trait, I would consider picking Be'lakor as the general. He would benefit a lot from the 5+ Ward for being a daemon prince general (he is quite weak to mortal wounds and he gives a victory point to opponent if he dies).
2-Since Mask of Darkness is so unreliable, I would consider giving the Khorne Daemon Prince the Amulet of Destiny (if he is not the general) or the DoomBringer blade (which is quite good in the Monster Hero meta) instead of using the artefact slot for arcane tome.
3-With the latest white dwarf update for cultists battleline, instead of the 30 marauders, I could see an argument for:
10xUntamed Beasts
10xUntamed Beasts
10xIron Golems
10xIron Golems
new list total: 1995/2000

I’d also like to suggest maybe the Chaos Lord would be better replaced by the Sorcerer Lord, I’d you’re going competitively. Most people swear combining him with Archaon. 

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On 10/7/2021 at 1:22 PM, TimeToWaste85 said:

I’d also like to suggest maybe the Chaos Lord would be better replaced by the Sorcerer Lord, I’d you’re going competitively. Most people swear combining him with Archaon. 

The Chaos Lord on foot has a command ability that allows arcaon to fight twice. This is also why you give him arcane tome and teleport so he can remain in range. On the other hand the Sorcerer Lord has an undeniable +1 save ability and a spell that rereolls all hits and wound, wich is nice on slayer of kings in particular but awesome overall.

In a S2D list with Archaon im trying to bring both but i prefer the lord on foot, altho wasting an artifact on him sux.

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So with the new rule for Knight Draconis and Lord Celestant on Dracoth, allowing Stormcast to field smaller units of their respect unit types, does anyone suspect a similar rule for Varanguard and Knights of the Empty Throne?

Also how would this effect the unit? Could this replace Chaos Lord's on Demonic mounts? If we get a foot variant of Varanguard would this replace exalted champions?

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7 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

So with the new rule for Knight Draconis and Lord Celestant on Dracoth, allowing Stormcast to field smaller units of their respect unit types, does anyone suspect a similar rule for Varanguard and Knights of the Empty Throne?

Also how would this effect the unit? Could this replace Chaos Lord's on Demonic mounts? If we get a foot variant of Varanguard would this replace exalted champions?

Can´t see this happen. The reason for those SCE units is – IMO – the fact taht the boxed set offers 2 models and when you build one as a hero, the other one is (was to be precise) wasted. Varanguard build a full unit out of the box with no models unused – therefore it is a differnt case.

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:26 PM, ChaosUndivided said:

The Chaos Lord on foot has a command ability that allows arcaon to fight twice. This is also why you give him arcane tome and teleport so he can remain in range. On the other hand the Sorcerer Lord has an undeniable +1 save ability and a spell that rereolls all hits and wound, wich is nice on slayer of kings in particular but awesome overall.

In a S2D list with Archaon im trying to bring both but i prefer the lord on foot, altho wasting an artifact on him sux.

It's pretty easy to fit in both lords. I don't have a ton of experience running Archaon, but the few times I did I ran both, and the Oracular Visions ability is just so, so helpful. You get to save Mystic Shield/All out Defense for other key units, and Archaon on a 2+ Save re-rolling 1's just from having a lil sorc lord following him around is worth it.

Or, take a Sorc Lord w/ Manticore, way easier to keep up with Archaon if you can fly too! I'm on the fence about giving the Chaos Lord the Arcane Tome but it sorta seems required if you want to pull off the Spurred by the Gods trick with Archaon.

I'm getting real excited to run some variation of this list now that Iron Golems can be battleline if they share the mark with the general:

 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Host of the Everchosen (Sixth Circle)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Archaon the Everchosen (830)*
- General
- Aura of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Call to Glory
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Ruinous Vigour
Chaos Lord (120)*
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
3 x Varanguard (280)**
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
16 x Iron Golems (150)**
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Reinforced x 1
16 x Iron Golems (150)**
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Reinforced x 1
Mutalith Vortex Beast (175)*
The Burning Head (20)
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
Drops: 7

 

Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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@oggurt_da_bog_zombie i agree, if you're running Archaon in a S2D army both the warrior chaos lord and sorcerer are a must. Im surprised the combo doesnt come up more often in mono god armies running Archaon.

I played a local tournament not long ago and brought Archaon + Chaos Lord + Sorc Lord + Sorc on Manticore and it wrecked, every opponent would have been tabled if it went 5 rounds, 2 of the 3 were almost leveled by end of turn 2, but due to time constrains none made it past that.

Out of the 3 games i played, i maybe teleported the chaos lord once. The reality was that i just avoided combat with him and he moved + ran if need be every turn. Not a single opponent even tried to kill him wich was shocking, either they dumped everything they had into Arc or just played objectives and Arc pretty much just deleted any threats to the Lord.

The Sorc on Manticore had the amulet of destiny and it was a waste. That guy aint really for fist fighting with pr without the amulet. With Arc on table its hard for people to commit to trying to take out this guy unless you deliberately put him in harms way otherwise he just flys around casting his warscroll spell on hordes, granting +1 to someone, and picking of small weak stuff. I actually feel like this guy could benefit more from the tome, which btw, the teleport spell can be cast by someone else on the foot Lord.

Even with the Manticore the regular foot Sorc is still a must for his warscroll spell and they work well together as buff bots.

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17 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

@oggurt_da_bog_zombie i agree, if you're running Archaon in a S2D army both the warrior chaos lord and sorcerer are a must. Im surprised the combo doesnt come up more often in mono god armies running Archaon.

I played a local tournament not long ago and brought Archaon + Chaos Lord + Sorc Lord + Sorc on Manticore and it wrecked, every opponent would have been tabled if it went 5 rounds, 2 of the 3 were almost leveled by end of turn 2, but due to time constrains none made it past that.

Out of the 3 games i played, i maybe teleported the chaos lord once. The reality was that i just avoided combat with him and he moved + ran if need be every turn. Not a single opponent even tried to kill him wich was shocking, either they dumped everything they had into Arc or just played objectives and Arc pretty much just deleted any threats to the Lord.

The Sorc on Manticore had the amulet of destiny and it was a waste. That guy aint really for fist fighting with pr without the amulet. With Arc on table its hard for people to commit to trying to take out this guy unless you deliberately put him in harms way otherwise he just flys around casting his warscroll spell on hordes, granting +1 to someone, and picking of small weak stuff. I actually feel like this guy could benefit more from the tome, which btw, the teleport spell can be cast by someone else on the foot Lord.

Even with the Manticore the regular foot Sorc is still a must for his warscroll spell and they work well together as buff bots.

Ya, I've definitely run a variation of my list above where I have both the manticore sorc lord and on-foot sorc lord. The players I've played against have generally been clever enough to go after the Chaos Lord or more often, go after the sorc lord (either version) so I don't have Oracular Visions anymore. This is sorta why I put the Amulet of Destiny on the manticore sorc lord, and also that I really don't know what else I'd put on him, so the marginal benefit of the 5+ ward makes sense for when my opponent does go after him (especially with battle tactics like Bring it Down, the manticore is easier than Archaon to kill), or when I have him in combat. For the Chaos Lord, since there isn't really another better artefact to take than the Arcane Tome, if I don't want to go for the teleport trick, I could put the Amulet of Destiny on the Chaos Lord and try to fit this in a battle regiment or something. However, I like having Hunters of the Heartlands so trying to win the drops game seems like a stretch.

The Mutalith in that above list is really for fun, I think theres an argument to be made to run a Warshrine instead, but I don't like the model so I roll with the Mutalith or could swap it for the on-foot sorc lord, and maybe a better endless spell than the Burning Head.

Edited by oggurt_da_bog_zombie
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