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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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1 hour ago, Charlo said:

I've always had a soft spot for Tzeench marked stuff and I'm glad it seems to be doing something uiquue in 3rd!

Cabalists could be really nasty IMO. Damage comes from endless spells while blocks of warriors and such don't die or take many mortals from spells either.

Yep, that's exactly what I did in my last game, and the damage output of the endless spells is pretty nasty. If you add some movement-affecting spells, like Whispers of Chaos, Realmscourge Rupture and the spell from the cabalists, you can set up a cool BBQ 

Moving the Darkfire Daemonrift three times in one round is sweet.

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1 hour ago, drcrater said:

Yep, that's exactly what I did in my last game, and the damage output of the endless spells is pretty nasty. If you add some movement-affecting spells, like Whispers of Chaos, Realmscourge Rupture and the spell from the cabalists, you can set up a cool BBQ 

Moving the Darkfire Daemonrift three times in one round is sweet.

I'm always intrigued as to Cabalist lists, as they're a sub-faction I've always struggled to put together something I'm happy with. 

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4 hours ago, Sneedlewoods said:

Does anybody read anything that universal general traits cant be picked for "Ravager Command Traits"?

I already played it and I dont see a point why you wouldnt be able to use them. 
The Ravagers Battle Traits just say, that every Hero can pick A COMMAND TRAIT, not specifically a Ravagers Command Trait. 
Pretty good tbh.

Ravagers is still fun and maybe still my favourite sub-faction.
I tried a few things already and this list is what I will try next. 
Trying to go heavy on Sorcerers, maybe its too much. (other option would be CL and Darkoath Chieftain instead, not sure yet).
Cogs could be great here, but had no idea how to fit them in. 
Could also go for the Mark Artefact for the big 18'' spell ignore aura. But two casts on the re-roll guy is just a lot of value I feel.
The list kinda lacks damage, but on the other hand, most of our lists nowadays kinda does (if you dont have Archaon). 

If you have any other ideas, let me know. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: none, because of 2000points

Leaders
Be'Lakor, the Dark Master (360) in Command Entourage
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Battle Regiment
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master Of Magic (reroll)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Command Entourage
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate (+2 wounds)
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Command Entourage
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Heroic Stature (+1 wound)
- Spell: Mask of Darkness

Battleline
30 x Chaos Marauders (270) in Battle Regiment
- Axes & Shields
5 x Chaos Knights (170) in Battle Regiment
- Cursed Lance
20 x Chaos Warriors (400) in Battle Regiment
- Halberd & Shield

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (185) in Battle Regiment
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138



 

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@drcrater I would be very interested to see your Cabalist list.

@Enwolved I like your list but agree that 3 sorcerer lords might be a bit much on top of Belakor However the tzeentch sorcer with Master of Magic and Arcane Tome is too good a combo to pass up for me. This is what I have for Ravagers so far...

Slaves to Darkness - Ravagers Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain 5 Drops  
       
Warlord Notes Role Points
Lord on Manticore Mark of Khorne, Daemon Blade & Lance
Trait: Eternal Vendetta, Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
Leader 255
Chaos Lord Mark of Khorne, Trait: Flames of Spite Leader 120
Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Mark of Khorne, Trait: Master of Deception Leader 155
5 x Chaos Chosen Mark of Khorne   145
       
Battle Regiment Notes Role Points
Sorcerer Lord on Manticore Mark of Slaanesh, Trait: Bolstered by Hate, 
Spell: Binding Damnation
Leader 270
Sorcerer Lord Mark of Tzeentch, Trait: Master of Magic
Artefact: Arcane Tome, Spell: Mask of Darkness
Leader 115
Daemon Prince Mark of Khorne Leader 210
5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne, Lances Battleline 170
5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne, Lances Battleline 170
10 x Chaos Warriors Mark of Tzeentch, Halberds & Rune Shields Battleline 200
Warshrine Mark of Khorne, Curse Behemoth 185
       
    TOTAL = 1995
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@Enwolved Thanks, just wanted to be sure about that, because it makes Ravagers more valuable!

 

I'm still unsure how we can kill something on the battlefield. Chaos Marauder plus curse prayer would be an option. Especially in combination with the reroll cast. I'm curious how your list will perform.

Thats the list I made:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
- Grand Strategy: Vendetta
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225) in Warlord
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta
- Spell: Mask of Darkness

- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Lord (120) in Warlord
- Ravagers Command Trait: Skilled Leader (5+=1CP)

- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90) in Warlord
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270) in Warlord
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Warlord
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master Of Magic (reroll)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Warlord
Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos

Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (340) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Knights (170) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (170) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Cursed Lance
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) in Warlord
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) in Warlord
 

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (185)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Endless Spells
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Warlord
Hunters of the Hearthlands

Enhancements
Artefact
Spell

Already played it as all Slaanesh for more pump against a Nurgle friend but I got destroyed. 😄 I gotta feeling that Nurgle might be pretty good in this Edition. But tbh my rolls well... haven't been that good. 😄 

Well the thoughts to my list:

4x Caster - all got Mask of Darkness as 2nd spell to be able to port anywhere in last second - 4x Unbind or well 5x Unbind with the Heroic Action

3x Sorc for an easy 3x +1 Save, not as good as the rerolls but should negate some rend where its needed and we still got the 1s Reroll thanks to MoT

10x Knights to have enemys stuck in them and for sure do some damage, especially with rerolls and with a bit luck the Curse prayer

2x 5x Knights for some extra rend where its needed, buffed and ready to charge thanks to the also really resilent CL on Karkadrak

Untamed Beasts as screen and well if possible to *** up some KO shooting 1st turn

2 Extra CP where they are needed thanks to double Warlord and Hunters of the Hearthlands to make the Knights imune to this new monster ******. 😄

Unfortunatley I got only 1 monster in there with the hopefully also tanky Sorc on Manticore.

 

What do you think guys? What may I improve or change? No clue which Grand Strategy to take tbh... 🤷‍♂️
 

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Any rumors regarding the rank-and-file warriors being replaced with new, more dynamic ones similar to the Start Collecting? I'm a bit surprised that it didn't happen a long time ago as the warriors are so iconic.

Similarly, is it frowned upon to use Untamed Beasts as marauders? Can see how that might be a bit confusing but the marauders have not aged well.

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Nothing I've heard and guessing their plans is like reading tea leaves lol.

If you're open to third party Mantic has great hard plastic minis I use that look like the Wildlings from GoT

IMG_20200430_193231.jpg

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14 hours ago, Sneedlewoods said:

@Enwolved Thanks, just wanted to be sure about that, because it makes Ravagers more valuable!

 

I'm still unsure how we can kill something on the battlefield. Chaos Marauder plus curse prayer would be an option. Especially in combination with the reroll cast. I'm curious how your list will perform.

Thats the list I made:

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Ravagers
- Grand Strategy: Vendetta
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225) in Warlord
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal Vendetta
- Spell: Mask of Darkness

- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Lord (120) in Warlord
- Ravagers Command Trait: Skilled Leader (5+=1CP)

- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Exalted Hero of Chaos (90) in Warlord
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Manticore (270) in Warlord
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of Deception
- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Binding Damnation
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Warlord
- Ravagers Command Trait: Master Of Magic (reroll)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (115) in Warlord
Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Spell: Mask of Darkness
- Spell: Whispers of Chaos

Battleline
10 x Chaos Knights (340) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Knights (170) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (170) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

- Cursed Lance
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) in Warlord
9 x Untamed Beasts (70) in Warlord
 

Behemoths
Chaos Warshrine (185)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Prayer1: Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse

Endless Spells
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Warlord
Hunters of the Hearthlands

Enhancements
Artefact
Spell

What do you think guys? What may I improve or change? No clue which Grand Strategy to take tbh... 🤷‍♂️
 

A few thoughts.

First off, I'm not sure that a second spell is all that helpful vs having a 3rd artefact.  Admittedly, the ravagers artefacts all kind of suck, but I have never particularly appreciated Mask of Darkness when I have run it in the past, mostly just because it only goes off on a 7 and was always really unreliable for me.

Second off, I can't say that it would ever be worth it to run a block of 10 chaos knights.  Even in 2.0, their bases are so big that it can be a struggle to get them all into combat (I think my record was managing to get 8 into combat at once), and the new coherency rules just makes that even worse than it was before.  Also on the subject of the knights, I would always run the Ensorcelled weapons, because Knights struggle to get charges off, and even when they do they struggle to kill whatever it is that they charged.  The only time I have been impressed by a knight's charge is when I run them with a Khorne Daemon Prince to make it harder for my opponents to get their own charges off.

Aside from the above, your list looks decent for something that is trying to move up the field and then sit there.  However, you are really lacking in killing power, and are going to be trying to just overwhelm your opponents on objectives with your summoned warriors.

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2 hours ago, Eldarain said:

Nothing I've heard and guessing their plans is like reading tea leaves lol.

If you're open to third party Mantic has great hard plastic minis I use that look like the Wildlings from GoT

IMG_20200430_193231.jpg

Literally putting some of together right now. A perfect fit for Marauders if you're going for a frozen/tundra theme. Also the fact that they're slightly "chunky" compared to other standard human sculpts means they actually look quite proportional next to Chaos Warriors.   

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For marauders, I've saw someone using Bloodreavers with Marauder heads. Didn't look bad, but maybe a bit missleading. The ones @Eldarain posted look good too, but I'm reticent to use mantic, since I don't like their material at all :P

 

By the way, we opened a STD discord channel. I can post it here if there's interest and doesnt interfere with any forum rules

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On 7/5/2021 at 4:10 PM, Sneedlewoods said:

Does anybody read anything that universal general traits cant be picked for "Ravager Command Traits"?

 

 

Yeah, rule 27.4 in the core rules state that if your subfaction (Ravagers) includes a command trait, and if your general has that keyword (Ravagers) then they must take the command trait from the allegiance.

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1 hour ago, Rakkzul said:

For marauders, I've saw someone using Bloodreavers with Marauder heads. Didn't look bad, but maybe a bit missleading. The ones @Eldarain posted look good too, but I'm reticent to use mantic, since I don't like their material at all :P

 

By the way, we opened a STD discord channel. I can post it here if there's interest and doesnt interfere with any forum rules

These are more recent Mantic sculpts and act in the exact same way as GW plastic for the most part. If anything in some ways it's better as the mould lines are much less pronounced so cleaning them up is a breeze.  

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1 hour ago, Brucimus said:

Yeah, rule 27.4 in the core rules state that if your subfaction (Ravagers) includes a command trait, and if your general has that keyword (Ravagers) then they must take the command trait from the allegiance.

Well I think that's the part where the allegiance says something like "if you play this allegiance you have to take this and that". I don't think this is necessary for Ravagers.

Any other opinions about this phrase?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Sneedlewoods said:

Well I think that's the part where the allegiance says something like "if you play this allegiance you have to take this and that". I don't think this is necessary for Ravagers.

Any other opinions about this phrase?

The one you pick for your General has to be a Ravagers one. All the others can be Ravagers or universal from what I can see. 

Edited by SpiritofHokuto
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5 hours ago, Rakkzul said:

For marauders, I've saw someone using Bloodreavers with Marauder heads. Didn't look bad, but maybe a bit missleading. The ones @Eldarain posted look good too, but I'm reticent to use mantic, since I don't like their material at all :P

 

By the way, we opened a STD discord channel. I can post it here if there's interest and doesnt interfere with any forum rules

I'd be interested in a discord link. I'm getting ready for a path to glory campaign, and would love some ideas. 

On related questions, I noticed most of the lists are using chaos lord on demonic mount, but I feel like the karkadrak chaos lord is a stronger option. Am I missing something, or is it for more flexibility in list building? Also with the point increases are our endless spells worth using? I was really a fan of EFDS, but it seems like DFDR is the chosen one if people are taking them at all. 

With the new coherency rules seems like flails are the way to go with marauders since it's hard to get a lot of them into combat while staying within coherency. Flails allow them to fight while ranked, which will probably end up being more attacks than the 1 extra they get for sword and board.

With the death of the plague touched battalion seems like there isn't a stand out god. I'm leaning towards Tzeentch because he (it/they/its unknowable majesty) is super defensive, with reroll 1s on saves and a 5+ ignore for spells and endless spells. It also makes the warshrine pretty handy, since it gives +1 to save and ignore spells/endless spells on a 4+. The offensive abilities of the gods seem a bit underwhelming, nurgle is probably the best with +1 to damage on sixes, but you'd probably take him for the -1 to be hit with ranged weapons.

Which leads to another question, is the tzeentch ability to ignore spells and endless spells a ward save? It seems like RAW it can't be because you roll for it after being targeted rather than after receiving damage. If it isn't a ward save, it would stack with things like rune shields which are ward saves, and with things like protection of the dark gods. You could make some warriors into a really hard to shift unit with a warshrine, 3+ save with rerolling ones while ignoring the first point of rend, 4+ to ignore spells, a 6+ ward vs normal damage and a 5+ ward vs mortal wounds. That seems pretty beefy for AoS 3, 

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53 minutes ago, grimgold said:

I'd be interested in a discord link. I'm getting ready for a path to glory campaign, and would love some ideas. 

On related questions, I noticed most of the lists are using chaos lord on demonic mount, but I feel like the karkadrak chaos lord is a stronger option. Am I missing something, or is it for more flexibility in list building? Also with the point increases are our endless spells worth using? I was really a fan of EFDS, but it seems like DFDR is the chosen one if people are taking them at all. 

With the new coherency rules seems like flails are the way to go with marauders since it's hard to get a lot of them into combat while staying within coherency. Flails allow them to fight while ranked, which will probably end up being more attacks than the 1 extra they get for sword and board.

With the death of the plague touched battalion seems like there isn't a stand out god. I'm leaning towards Tzeentch because he (it/they/its unknowable majesty) is super defensive, with reroll 1s on saves and a 5+ ignore for spells and endless spells. It also makes the warshrine pretty handy, since it gives +1 to save and ignore spells/endless spells on a 4+. The offensive abilities of the gods seem a bit underwhelming, nurgle is probably the best with +1 to damage on sixes, but you'd probably take him for the -1 to be hit with ranged weapons.

Which leads to another question, is the tzeentch ability to ignore spells and endless spells a ward save? It seems like RAW it can't be because you roll for it after being targeted rather than after receiving damage. If it isn't a ward save, it would stack with things like rune shields which are ward saves, and with things like protection of the dark gods. You could make some warriors into a really hard to shift unit with a warshrine, 3+ save with rerolling ones while ignoring the first point of rend, 4+ to ignore spells, a 6+ ward vs normal damage and a 5+ ward vs mortal wounds. That seems pretty beefy for AoS 3, 

I think people go for the Daemonic Mount over the Karkadrak because they have the same Command ability, and realistically the Karkadrak Lord's offensive output isn't that great. And on the defence, 2 wounds and +1 save for +70 points is decent but not amazing. 

The issue with EFDS is that the bonus can only be applied to a unit once, and with it's increased price it isn't so much of a consideration. DFDR on the other hand, while a bit worse on the baseline due to only counting other Endless spells for its bonus now is better due to the fact that it's automatically bound and moves in every hero phase. 

Axes & Shields are still better for Marauders as they're on 25mm bases which are less than an inch so they can still fight in 2 "ranks". So realistically it's 40 or more attacks vs 30 for flails at best.

Tzeetnch has gone way up as the only save re-roll available, plus as you said the spell ignores can be very useful, and they can not only be stacked with Ward saves/mortal wound shrugs but with similar abilities (Generals aura/Tzeentch Warshrine buff/Varanguard ability) as well. Khorne is still a consideration as well as +1 to wound is hard for non-heroes to get.  

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:16 PM, LordPrometheus said:

What does everyone think of Despoilers these days? Especially running them with Belakor?

Giving Be'lakor a 5+ Ward and additional healing is a big boon to his survivability.

I find the pitch black ability is very situational, I think it can be very impactful in the right situation though, if you remember it.

The healing on monsters and demon princes doesn't add much but it's something. I suspect our non-hero monsters are somewhat of a trap that gives away points when they die but mindstealers are cheap and strikes last is good ability. Since demon princes strike first, Despoilers can make an army that's fairly resilient and plays well into the activations. I'm still experimenting with this. I'm hoping to run a list with Be'lakor, princes and and mindstealers back by cav a Chariots some time next week. I'll post how it goes.

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