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AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion


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Earlier today I posted a comparison of the old and new chaos warrior sculpts in the previous thread. I've since painted both of those models and I figured people might be curious to see how the two sc

Almost ready to roll........  (wish I could field all 15,  Alas, 4x3 and Archaon will provide for some glorious, if not futile, games!)   (I'm going 6th Circle/Mark of Khorne. If I go bottom

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5 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Exacly. I think new allegance is not very competitive. As i understood you have to play belakor as general and an army demon based. If I play plaguebearers i cant use MoN rules thats not great. 

In despoilers can be very good . Remeber the ability now its " until your next hero phase" . Potentially if I start the round, after my opponemt play and I use ability. We roll for priority and my oppo win ... if he take turn he still got belakor debuff so I can give me the turn for that  and I dont have to play against doble turn!!

That is how the rule has always been. But yes, his ability is great for that.

 

1 hour ago, Dankboss said:

Aside from Archaon, he's the only real caster who can properly utilize those 12" StoD spells, since the manticore lord dies to a stuff breeze. So he can get up close without the risk of instant death. The extra durability lets him utilize things like Enfeeble Foe, which is very powerful. Before, Be'lakor was always cowering in the back and forgotten, only brought along for his gimmick. Now he's his own man and can actively participate in the fight.

He's also a source of -2 rend, which StoD severely lack in any consistent capacity.

He'll also be the one and only time Call to Glory gets cast for when he wants to throwdown with other heroes and monsters.

Before he was 240 points of one big ability and the occasional spell, for the price of a sorcerer lord on top you get someone who can actively participate in the game and fight when he needs to. In Despoilers he works well with lots of Marauders, since he'll get a 5+ ward and give a 6+ ward to them and prevent battleshock, which saves on CP. The rest of the army can be other marks.

I dont think he's that different than before. He's always been my Whispers of chaos caster and I've never had a problem getting him up there to use it. If he died, it was often to things that'd kill new belakor as well (anvils longstrike raptors or thr morathi + blood stalkers combo).

Youre right on the rend 2. I've been facing OBR a lot and trying to chew through shield walled mortek guard on a 3+ or even 2+ rerollable save is miserable. Rend 2 wouldve been quite useful. 

Really it was his ability that made him worthwhile in the first place. It made up most of the value (in my eyes) of the model. Im not sure the bonuses to his other aspects is worth the 140 point price tag. Im going to run him a bit before I form a final opinion, but initial impression says that I lose too much to fit him in. 

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Copy pasted from THW Discord:

Despoilers vs Glogg's Megamob. Normally my trolls rinse StoD since they kill knights like they're flies, so it is a decent challenge for StoD to face them. This was Starstrike.

Be'lakor projecting a big bubble of 6+ ward was actually the thing keeping his army alive. My Rockguts pasted his marauders for 27 damage and he somehow rolled 10 ward saves. Luck aside, he took a battalion so had Doombringer blade and marked my Troggboss; he also had Call to Glory. Be'lakor managed to jump my Troggboss and assassinate him in one go with reroll hits and wounds, through his Glowy Howsit. My Hag tied him up long enough for him to not be able to kill off some important trolls holding an objective, although Be'lakor managed to kill her too.

I won the game but by a hair's width. Be'lakor getting stuck right in actually was quite significant. He healed something like 7 wounds over the game as any chip damage got healed up. He stopped my other unit of Rockguts to prevent them being a threat, however I hand of Gorked them out the way so they were safe from counter attacks.

Aside from horrible casting rolls, Be'lakor performed pretty well.

My suspicions were right, in that Be'lakor can assassinate other big heroes or monsters when he gets full rerolls.

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13 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Copy pasted from THW Discord:

Despoilers vs Glogg's Megamob. Normally my trolls rinse StoD since they kill knights like they're flies, so it is a decent challenge for StoD to face them. This was Starstrike.

Be'lakor projecting a big bubble of 6+ ward was actually the thing keeping his army alive. My Rockguts pasted his marauders for 27 damage and he somehow rolled 10 ward saves. Luck aside, he took a battalion so had Doombringer blade and marked my Troggboss; he also had Call to Glory. Be'lakor managed to jump my Troggboss and assassinate him in one go with reroll hits and wounds, through his Glowy Howsit. My Hag tied him up long enough for him to not be able to kill off some important trolls holding an objective, although Be'lakor managed to kill her too.

I won the game but by a hair's width. Be'lakor getting stuck right in actually was quite significant. He healed something like 7 wounds over the game as any chip damage got healed up. He stopped my other unit of Rockguts to prevent them being a threat, however I hand of Gorked them out the way so they were safe from counter attacks.

Aside from horrible casting rolls, Be'lakor performed pretty well.

My suspicions were right, in that Be'lakor can assassinate other big heroes or monsters when he gets full rerolls.

What gave be'lakor the 6+ ward projection? Was he playing with Undivided marked units and had be'lakor as the general?

Edited by Graywater
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8 minutes ago, Graywater said:

What gave be'lakor the 6+ ward projection? Was he playing with Undivided marked units and had be'lakor as the general?

Yep, testing out to see if it's worth it. Giving him a 5+ ward as the general is kinda a big deal. When my opponent does that however, he normally makes his knights Slaanesh since they're operating off of power pairs so it's not a problem.

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22 minutes ago, Dankboss said:

Yep, testing out to see if it's worth it. Giving him a 5+ ward as the general is kinda a big deal. When my opponent does that however, he normally makes his knights Slaanesh since they're operating off of power pairs so it's not a problem.

I was dumb. Nothing to see here...

Edited by Graywater
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1 minute ago, Dankboss said:

He does

Sorry, you are correct. The healing is the part he doesn't need to be the general for. It's so frustrating to see how restrictive some of our abilities are.

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belakor's Demon Resurrection ability
The wording has been changed from the keyword to the warscroll of each lesser daemon.
You can no longer revive the Seeker of CherryOt, Skull Cannon, Drone, etc.

and he can re-roll hit only

 

i think this is very hard nerf

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im trying to build a despoilers list with belakor and plaguetouch. its pretty hard now. the only way i found is remove demon prince. can that make sense? can i play without demon prince? 

Edited by Tizianolol
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3 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

im trying to build a despoilers list with belakor and plaguetouch. its pretty hard now. the only way i found is remove demon prince. can that make sense? i can play without paragon of ruin trait and demon prince? 

Thats what @dankboss was alluding to above. Despoilers is the only place he can get some bonuses. Im not sure losing Paragon of Ruin is worth it myself, but a 5+ dpr on him is enticing considering how much of an investment he is now, and how much more of the heavy lifting he's gonna need to do now. 

I'm trying to fit him into my Knights of the Empty Throne list. It's quite tight.

Edited by Graywater
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Ye you right i correct my post reading it:) the question remain. 5+fnp is very strong so I think a list without demon prince is not a big deal. Another interesting thing is i can give artifact for d3 command points at the begin of the game to my sorcerer lord because for artifact the battletome says " despoiler hero not demon hero"!:)

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Curious to see what people come up with regarding lists with new be'lakor. I'm thinking you're going to have to pick between him and plaguetouched now. He's too expensive to afford him and all of the units for plaguetouched without going full min units. 

My initial thought was to drop him to try to squeeze more damage into my list. But I'm not really putting out tons of damage anyways, so now I'm thinking maybe going full control route may be the way to go for us. 

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16 hours ago, Graywater said:

Curious to see what people come up with regarding lists with new be'lakor. I'm thinking you're going to have to pick between him and plaguetouched now. He's too expensive to afford him and all of the units for plaguetouched without going full min units. 

Just have in mind that a 50pts chaos spwan can be a MORTAL NURGLE SLAVES TO DARKNESS unit. ;)

 

 

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Just now, Hannibal said:

Just have in mind that a 50pts chaos spwan can be a MORTAL NURGLE SLAVES TO DARKNESS unit. ;)

 

 

Thats the tried and true battalion filler. Issue is with be'lakor going up 140, you're probably going to lose another unit or two to accommodate that. And at what point do you say that buffing a couple min squads of warriors and other nothing units isnt worth the battalion investment?

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4 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Thats the tried and true battalion filler. Issue is with be'lakor going up 140, you're probably going to lose another unit or two to accommodate that. And at what point do you say that buffing a couple min squads of warriors and other nothing units isnt worth the battalion investment?

To be honest, it´s nothing I regularly think about. After more than 20 years of GW games I´m tired of these "competetive" discussions. IMO there are two ways:

 

A) I want to play what I think is cool. Then I don´t think about competetiveness.

B) I want to be somewhat competetive with my build. Then I go and get the competetive stuff. More often than not it´s not the stuff I already own.

 

The older I become, the more I am pulled towards A. :)

 

That being said if I wanted to run Belakor, I´d try to support him in a good way. If that means no battalion of a certain type, then no battalion. It´s just that easy. :)

Edited by Hannibal
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My first stab at a new Be'Lakor list. Ogroid is the new Bel'akor price increase.

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness

- Damned Legion: Despoilers

Mortal Realm: Chamon

 

Leaders

Be'Lakor (240)

- General

- Spell: Mask of Darkness

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)

- Artefact: Doombringer Blade

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)

- Axe

- Artefact: Armour of Tortured Souls

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Ogroid Myrmidon (140)

 

Battleline

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

40 x Chaos Marauders (320)

- Axes & Shields

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

 

Battalions

Ruinbringer Warband (140)

 

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Realmscourge Rupture (60)

Suffocating Gravetide (20)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 133

 

 

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Nice to see Despoilers get some more spotlight right now with Bela coming around! It's my favourite legion and I always wondered why it often looks like people don't play it (well, althrough I have to add that using the always-fights-first-sheningans can feel quite powergamey)

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2 hours ago, Eldarain said:

My first stab at a new Be'Lakor list. Ogroid is the new Bel'akor price increase.

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness

- Damned Legion: Despoilers

Mortal Realm: Chamon

 

Leaders

Be'Lakor (240)

- General

- Spell: Mask of Darkness

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)

- Artefact: Doombringer Blade

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)

- Axe

- Artefact: Armour of Tortured Souls

- Mark of Chaos: Khorne

Ogroid Myrmidon (140)

 

Battleline

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

5 x Chaos Knights (160)

- Ensorcelled Weapons

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

40 x Chaos Marauders (320)

- Axes & Shields

- Mark of Chaos: Undivided

 

Battalions

Ruinbringer Warband (140)

 

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs

Realmscourge Rupture (60)

Suffocating Gravetide (20)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 133

 

 

That's similar to my regular opponent's list. I've now played 2 games against new Be'lakor.

Doombringer Blade is actually really good for Be'lakor to assassinate other heroes. He went through my Troggboss with Glowy Howsit pretty easily. Also means he can benefit from an Artefact without being able to take it.

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Cheers @Dankboss I've really overlooked it previously. I love how before it can be stopped it's marked a key piece for everything in your army to be far stronger against.

Tried to steer into the control and bravery elements of Be'Lakor and Despoilers as best I could. Figure the giant Undivided aura would help the Ruinbringer Knights still be a threat even when only a straggler or two remain.

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1 minute ago, Eldarain said:

Cheers @Dankboss I've really overlooked it previously. I love how before it can be stopped it's marked a key piece for everything in your army to be far stronger against.

Tried to steer into the control and bravery elements of Be'Lakor and Despoilers as best I could. Figure the giant Undivided aura would help the Ruinbringer Knights still be a threat even when only a straggler or two remain.

Yeah it really makes me hesitant to move the Hero/ Monster forward, as everything gets rerolls hits/ wounds against them, so even 2 knights did like 6 damage.

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